Nasl?

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by WestHamUtdFC, Aug 31, 2007.

  1. Steve Holroyd

    Steve Holroyd New Member

    Apr 19, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think your sig line pretty much sums up the problem with your approach.

    This is the world's game, whether we like it or not. Changing the rules to make it "American" makes it something other than football. Changing it simply to attract American fans (as opposed to, say, a rule change designed to address a flaw in the game, as FIFA has done with the backpass and offside rules) makes it something other than football.

    If you want to make the game more exciting in America, support MLS so the clubs will earn more money and, in turn, spend it on players who will make the game more exciting. Don't change the rules.
     
  2. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    actually i have been doing that for a very long time since 96, im looking a the bigger picture, soccer has failed in the 1950s 60s , had a pulse in the 70s died in the 1980s and in the 1990s reborn here in the US and in the 2000s its more a foreigner in america game. .... i just think the league games need modification the international matches can stay the same. look at the NBA and the FIBA play it worked well for them. .....also advice to US soccer dont move to the fall winter "fifa schedule" really uefa schedule cause japan and aussie dont really follow it africa dont follow it (african nations cup).

    Fifa has it hands full, it is best to stay in the spring around the march to november time frame they need a better english tv deal ofcourse, but more importantly market better market thier american players, golf does a way better job than soccer right now in sports marketing. also they that is MLS need to managed to schedule games where it dont run into the CFball and NFL and also try to not schedule games that interfear with the Fifa internationals
     
  3. Steve Holroyd

    Steve Holroyd New Member

    Apr 19, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are still operating under a bunch of unfounded assumptions

    I don't know how you can say it failed when, in fact, it wasn't even trying--this was the era when soccer wasn't "trying"--the ASL was basically a glorified social club. FWIW--the foreign tours sponsored by the ASL were huge successes.

    It had much more than a pulse...given the money unwisely spent and lack of concern over consequences, "cocaine rush" is a better description.

    Professionally, maybe...but the sport continued to grow. Where do you think the players on the 1994 WC team came from?

    Professionally, on a major level, yes...but the sport never "died" on the other levels and, thus, did not need to be "reborn."

    Says who? Anti-soccer pundits? Where is the evidence? MLS (as opposed to the NASL) is overwhelmingly American as far as players and coaches...the fans attending are predominantly American...the sport is squeezing baseball off of youth fields. The game is more American than hockey at this point.

    Seriously, and I'm not belittling the fact that you (if not a consensus) want to see a "more exciting" game. But it's already there--it's called indoor soccer. Enjoy it, and leave the Beautiful Game alone.
     
  4. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    not that it does matter now the us- brazil game never made headlines i mean real headlines, not no noticias, no its not a american game,im pretty sure there are just as many "us" players with foreign lineage than your true US soccer player.... no MLS hasnt catered to american sports fans, only to the people who prefere single table and european nicknames for thier teams ofcourse to make more money. i guess MLS hipes that these types of fans will carry over to the trditional american sports fan.....
     
  5. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    That's because the American sports mentality has always been never beyond NY & LA. For some reason in all their sports they call their championships WORLD Champions . In so many ways this is a very narrow minded way of thinking. I read and hear so much in the media about being politically correct not being biased or prejudicial but for some reason there is this narrow mindedness when it comes to sports that America is the best. I'm sure they are in basketball, baseball and American football but I believe it is about time they stop this way of thinking.

    One great thing about the NASL however, were the great nationalities that played in that league. Let's face it for those of us who saw that league in comparison to the MLS, the skills and different styles back then were incredible as opposed to what we have now. I think all the ethnicities added to the international flavor that makes up soccer. I'd think the MLS could use more of those not as many as the NASL had but at least 4-5 per team with maybe a limit of 3 on the field.
     
  6. LordRobin

    LordRobin Member+

    Sep 1, 2006
    Akron, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again: The rules didn't bring "more american fans" the first time they tried it.

    The definition of insanity -- doing the same thing twice and expecting different results.

    ------RM
     
  7. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I remember in the 70's in San Jose there were many American and/or American born fans at Spartan Stadium. I don't think the rules meant much I think everyone just got into soccer.
     
  8. Steve Holroyd

    Steve Holroyd New Member

    Apr 19, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First, why should it? It was a friendly. Of interest to soccer fans, but not "headline worthy," even if it was Brazil who was playing.

    Second, the NHL isn't really getting "real headlines" anymore, outside of those cities with franchises (and, even then, once a team exists the playoffs, coverage kind of stops). Does that mean it's a failure? "Un-American"?


    As the U.S. is a country of immigrants, a certain amount of this is to be expected.

    But who on the current Nat squad fits this description? The days of David Regis, Roy Wegerle and Thomas Dooley are gone. Benny F. was born in Brazil of American parents, but (I believe) was raised here. Other than that, Brian Ching is about as "foreign" as you get, coming from Hawaii.

    Also, the large majority of Americans in MLS are native born.

    So, although you're "pretty sure" of your point, I can't think of any names. I suppose you'll throw Adu at me. Anyone else?
     
  9. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    This generation is like that but 10 years ago it was a different. Preki, Dooley, Wegerle , Stewart, etc etc were all foreign born I believe. I think now there is a guy who grew up in England but born in the USA , he is a defender but I forget his name. I think we should go after more naturalised citizens however, as they could add more styles to an otherwise dull American game. This doesn't mean I don't appreciate the Americans its just that I think they need more of a contrast in their game.
     
  10. Steve Holroyd

    Steve Holroyd New Member

    Apr 19, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Stewart was either born here and moved to Holland because his Dad was in the service or vice versa. Unlike the others you mentioned, though, he at least lived here a bit.

    I think Simek is the guy you're thinking of.

    As a naturalized citizen myself, I want to say that I don't like the idea that we "must" recruit naturalized citizens in order to add "more styles." This presumes that, simply because someone was born in another country, he "must" be better than an American kid. This simply is not the case.

    The "styles" you talk about need to be introduced at the youth level; some more creative, Latin play instead of a lot of the "up-and-down" play that is taught.
     
  11. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    The only thing is the different s in any team help other players improve on their skills and adds to a different type of player. We haven't had anyone that has the skills of Tom Dooley or Preki. I remember a guy from Africa who played for the USA during the NASL days Ade Coker. I thought he was an exceptional talen then the league folded. I wish I could have seen him play more. The same with Jean Harbor.

    Yeah I spoke to Ernie at WC 94 at Stanford. He lived on Travis Air Force Base near Sacramento CA until he was 5 years old I believe. His dad was an African American Football player and his mom is Dutch.

    Yes it was Frank Simek. He was born in St. Louis soccer hotbed and moved to England at 12 years old with his family.
     
  12. LordRobin

    LordRobin Member+

    Sep 1, 2006
    Akron, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was referring to MLS. Diplomat Guy wants MLS to experiment with the rules in the belief that it will bring in more mainstream fans. I keep pointing out that MLS tried this in the beginning. The rule changes didn't bring in mainstream fans, and turned off hardcore soccer fans.

    In short, MLS tried fiddling with the rules. It didn't work. Why try it again?

    ------RM
     
  13. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    When did the MLS fiddle with the rules? I only remember the OT & shootout and no draws for a while but that was about it.
     
  14. Steve Holroyd

    Steve Holroyd New Member

    Apr 19, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The examples you give are over a decade old. Coker? Harbor? These were pre-MLS guys. Coker came from the era when American kids rode pine. Harbor was actually quite a bust at the international level.

    Same with Dooley. He was a real force in 1994. He'd be just another player today. Admittedly, Preki had a certain field awareness that only top strikers have, but we're not alone as far as lacking consistent finishers--most of the world would like to have one.
     
  15. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Considering we are talking about the NASL in an NASL thread, which was over two decades ago, I thought talking about Coker was quite appropriate.

    Yeah I agree w/you about Tom Dooley to a point but he didn't play his first national team match until he was 32 which is unherd of in most countries. He was however. set to be picked to play for Germany but each time was hurt.
    Dooley I believe was a starter in 1991 with Kaiserslautern I believe which won the Bundesliga. I doubt and can not name many Americans around today who could start on any of the big championship teams in most of Europe. I mean Bocanegra? He is good but by no means dominating.
     
  16. DavidP

    DavidP Member

    Mar 21, 1999
    Powder Springs, GA
    Exactamundo!!!!!!! Give that man a raise!
     
  17. DavidP

    DavidP Member

    Mar 21, 1999
    Powder Springs, GA
    Correct. There is no need to change to game to suit Americans. There's nothing that can be done; you either like it or you don't (or maybe will later :D). The changes that were made by the NASL didn't do much, if anything, to increase scoring, or make the game more exciting.

    And while I don't mind ties at all, if MLS decided to do away with them and go to shootouts again :eek:, I would like to see them do away with points (they're totally worthless if you don't have ties; a win's a win), and go to a percentage/games back system like is used in indoor soccer. That's a rule change that FIFA wouldn't care about one way or the other (I doubt the IFAB would care either; they'd probably like to see how it'd work). Of course, I like it the way it is, but that's what I'd want to see if they did away with ties.

    BTW, you're a naturalized citizen? From where are you originally?
     
  18. LordRobin

    LordRobin Member+

    Sep 1, 2006
    Akron, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They also had a countdown clock on the scoreboard. The game ended precisely at 0:00. There was no stoppage time. The referee could stop the clock, but that rarely happened. That's a significant rule change in my opinion.

    ------RM
     
  19. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I guess it could be kind of different but FIFA didn't start that until 95-96 when Italy started showing how much time was left by the 4th official. Before that they would never show how much time was left on the clock. Having the countdown clock didn't really change the flow of the game. I mean not significantly. I see what you mean but really how many goals are scored in injury time?
     
  20. LordRobin

    LordRobin Member+

    Sep 1, 2006
    Akron, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't point to any specific examples, but the system lent itself to time-wasting. Like I said, although the referee could stop the clock, he almost never did. Only something blatant, like an injury requiring a stretcher or a big fight would result in the clock being stopped. This allowed teams to engage in time-wasting, whereas with a normal clock the referee would mentally keep track of obvious time-wasting ploys and add stoppage time.

    ------RM
     
  21. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the problem i have with this is the referee holds the time so no one reall know how much time is Really left on the clock....and does not alow a real clutch play( ie last second plays, hail marys etc...) another reson why soccer is not heavly popular here......
     
  22. LordRobin

    LordRobin Member+

    Sep 1, 2006
    Akron, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't imagine soccer fans would be happy with a goal being called back because the "horn" blew before the ball made it into the net. The primary value of letting the referee decide when the game is over is that last-minute offensive chances are not interrupted.

    Forgive me, but it just sounds to me like you're not much of a fan of soccer. Is there anything about the game you do like? Most changes you suggest would wring all the uniqueness out of it. I, like most soccer fans, like the game in large part because it's not like every other American sport.

    ------RM
     
  23. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  24. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I must say those NASL days were certainly exciting.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  25. LordRobin

    LordRobin Member+

    Sep 1, 2006
    Akron, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In other words, you love soccer, you just think it's boring. :rolleyes:

    I don't think anyone likes that, anywhere in the world. But that can be fixed by instructing referees to punish the behavior.

    That would result in teams hoofing the ball back and forth on the field. What soccer fan wants that? I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with the offside rule. Most offside calls take place pretty close to the penalty area as it is.

    What prevents the keeper from being aggressive now? Unless you're saying he should have free reign to take an attacking player down.

    I've addressed this one. They tried it. It doesn't work. I presume you mean that 0:00 is the end of the game, period? Because if all you want is an unofficial digital clock counting backwards, sure, what the hell. I think Arsenal does that, believe it or not.

    That would solve the "saved by the bell" problem, yes. But without stoppage time, you're opening the game up to a lot of time-wasting.

    Unlimited substitutions would allow teams to use them as "de facto" timeouts. I think one of the primary reasons each team is only allowed three is to limit interruptions to play.

    Really, by trying to Americanize the game, you remove much of what makes soccer... soccer. 45 minutes of non-stop, free-flowing action with plenty of fancy footwork, that's the essence of the game. Limit the offside rule and you get nothing but long balls back and forth. Unlimited substitutions would mean interruption after interruption.

    Love soccer for what it is. If you can't, well, maybe the sport isn't for you.

    ------RM
     

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