Should MLS allow more foreign players in the league to accomodate expansion?

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by Eleven Bravo, Sep 8, 2007.

  1. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I keep hearing that the main reason that MLS shouldn't expand is because it would drain the quality of the league. But what about increasing the amount of foreign players allowed? I would think that MLS could really steal some quality players from most of America (except for Mexico, Argentina, & Brazil), Africa, and Asia. And also, how much would be too much?

    I know for me that it's important to get as many of the major markets in the league as absolutely possible, and i would not mind at all seeing more foreign players in the league to help out with this.
     
  2. Auxodium

    Auxodium New Member

    Apr 11, 2003
    Perth, Australia
    it wouldnt hurt in expanding the SI slots, would get more bums on seats... i mean Beckham got 60k thru the gates in NY... yes he is a designated player (marquee player in Aussie a-league terms) and if other players could do anything like that it would be good for the game.
     
  3. scheck

    scheck Member

    Mar 13, 2007
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With an increase in salary cap, the league will only get better, even if 3 teams come in the next 3 years.
     
  4. HighburyForever

    HighburyForever Red Card

    Oct 15, 2006
    Wooloomooloo, New South Wales
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    Absolutely not. You need to force all the teams to set-up REAL youth academies from U-13 and above. That will only help MLS in the long run. Then you don't need to worry about talent shortages.
     
  5. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well, how about setting up a rule that players from your academy don't count against you?
     
  6. Macksam

    Macksam Member

    Aug 2, 2007
    Brampton, Canada
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Exactly, I've been saying that all along.
     
  7. Kot Matroskin

    Kot Matroskin Member+

    Aug 10, 2007
    SF Bay Area

    Absolutely right. OTOH, that won't help in the short run. What can MLS do now to accomodate expansion? If you don't have enough young talent coming up (for whatever reason) you need to allow more foreign players, right?
     
  8. Fleetwood Mac #1

    Fleetwood Mac #1 New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Queens, NY
    Add a 5th SI slot (use it to sign decent players, not fillers) for couple of years and replace the cheap 4th SI's with quality ($300-400k) internationals. Salary cap may need to be increased by about $300k.
     
  9. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Before i try to get too technical, what is the exact number of potential foreigners that could line-up on a MLS team? i know the four S-I rule, but i don't know how many D-I a team could have nor if DPs count against S-I's.

    Regardless of what the rule is now, i don't think having anymore than 7...maybe 8 foreigners on the starting XI would destroy the league if we had a much larger league. granted, that is a lot of foreigners, but if you look at the EPL, it's not too different. And if you had anywhere from 20-32 teams, the league is going to have more than enough Americans on the team.

    And some of you guys might disagree, but i want to see teams in at least Atlanta, Florida (Miami, Tampa, or Orlando), Philadelphia, Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Montreal, San Diego, New York City, Saint Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, Oklahoma (Tulsa or OKC), Carolina (Raleigh, Charlotte, or Greensboro), Phoenix, Las Vegas, and Rochester. And maybe one day in Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, 2nd Florida team (Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, Fort Lauderdale), Providence, Hartford, another team in the south (Nashville, Memphis, New Orleans, Birmingham), Buffalo, another team in northern california (Sacramento or San Francisco), another team in the southwest (El Paso, San Antonio, Austin, Fort Worth, Albuquerque), Des Moines or Omaha, Minnesota, Richmond, Baltimore, Virginia Beach, Puerto Rico and Louisville...so that the sport can grow in this country. And the only way i could see a US League made up of that many teams is to increase the amount of foreign players allowed.


    ***Random thought: One possibility could be to make teams pay a tax to the league for going past the salary cap and/or foreigner limit.***
     
  10. junction05

    junction05 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2007
    Canada
    No No No. Dont make the mistake made by the NASL.
     
  11. mike4066

    mike4066 Member+

    Jun 30, 2007
    Chula Vista, CA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I say no. But I do think Canadians and Americans shouldn't count against your SI's if you are in MLS. I also think they should have 1 spot designated for a CONCACAF player.
     
  12. HighburyForever

    HighburyForever Red Card

    Oct 15, 2006
    Wooloomooloo, New South Wales
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    What would be the benefit of that? It's not like Canada is cranking out world-class players (no offense to Canadians).

    Also, if you were to do that, then you wouldn't be forcing Toronto FC to build a good youth academy. The US shouldn't be developing talent for Canada. They should be doing that on their own and with Toronto FC's help.
     
  13. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    DPs count towards the SI limit of 4.

    You are given 3 DI spots but can trade for additional spots.

    Also, it doesn't help immediately, but foreigners with green cards count as domestic players.
     
  14. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    I don't have a problem with temporary additions to the allotment, but it should be pointed out that even though you could theoretically use the foreigner rules to field 7 foreign starters, basically nobody does. You'll know the talent is diluted (or the salary cap has gone way up) when that starts happening.
     
  15. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I, truthfully, don't see how it would hurt. There's a difference between now and the NASL days. We are producing a lot of quality talent that would find its way in the league. Especially, with the addition of Youth Academies. And it would make the level of play a lot more competitive.

    Seriously, I don't think anyone cares that David Beckham is English. Most people wouldn't even notice (look at MLB) and it would be a good way to raise the attention of the league to the world and most importantly to the US if we could finally start to be a place where foreigners wanted to come play in. And this way we could FINALLY start to put teams in all the major markets.
     
  16. Veruca

    Veruca Member

    Jul 13, 2005
    Aurora, CO
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe b/c this is in the expansion thread and not a team thread you are all unaware of the MLS Academy structure/rules.

    Starting you no longer have to draft players that play in your Academy. This means if the Dynamo are able to find a player that can play in MLS they hold his rights& can be moved to Reserve Teams or First Team w/o going into the DuperDraft.

    This includes players that still go off to play college ball.

    [​IMG]

    One of the most interesting things that could occur, by announcing teams in StL, Philly & Seattle for 2009/10 is that these cities could have their acadamies up and running and be stocking up players before they even play a game.

    Hopefully this would lower the need to have a huge expansion draft.


    On topic, I guess, is that the league should open up an additional slot for international players. By adding 4/5 teams you're looking at 60-75 additional roster spots for US players even including an additional SI. That will keep MLS in line with it's intention to help grow domestic players.
     
  17. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Veruca, I thought that you had to give up a draft pick for every player you moved out of the academy to the full team. Is that correct?
     
  18. DaMunk

    DaMunk Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Philadelphia/STX
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    US Virgin Islands
    That point has not gone unnoticed by the English either.

    Too few English players in the EPL, clubs movement away from relying on academies, lack of NT success...

    Sound familiar?
     
  19. Veruca

    Veruca Member

    Jul 13, 2005
    Aurora, CO
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not that I've read, but there isn't a bunch of stuff on this subject on MLSnet.com that I could find.

    Basically, this is how it works using the Dynamo. The Dynamo have a home area (South Texas). Dynamo academy can sign anyone that lives in that area. To qualify as a local talent (and thus be available to the Dynamo outside the draft) a player must reside in the home area & play on the Dynamo Academy team for more than 1 year before they can be signed to the top team.

    Forcing a team to lose a pick would seem to undermine what the system is meant to do. It is supposed to reward teams that put more effort into finding talented players, growing them and getting them to the top level.

    So no, I do not believe that they lose a draft pick.
     
  20. Veruca

    Veruca Member

    Jul 13, 2005
    Aurora, CO
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My question is this, then why is the American "A-team" made up almost entirely of European based players?

    Only the highest leagues in the world (La Liga, EPL, Italy) can make a living not developing talent and just signing it away.

    Having 4 SI doesn't take away from the development of American's if anything it makes it better, b/c they face better competition than they would normally.
     
  21. HighburyForever

    HighburyForever Red Card

    Oct 15, 2006
    Wooloomooloo, New South Wales
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    Russia
    Are you serious? It's because the Premier League, La Liga, and Bundesliga are the best leagues in the world. You want your national team players going against the best competition in the world.

    And you are forgetting that most of those European based players proved themselves in MLS BEFORE moving onto Europe.
     
  22. DaMunk

    DaMunk Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Philadelphia/STX
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    US Virgin Islands
    I wasn't intending to present an argument against increasing foreign player spots in MLS. Just pointing out the fallacy in assuming because it happens in the EPL it's a great idea.
     
  23. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think some of yall are missing the point that i was trying to get at. i wouldn't suggest increasing the amount of foreigners allowed if i thought it would some how negatively impact our national team. What i was trying to get at is that MLS is going to have to expand to a lot more markets (so that it can increase its legitimacy in the country) and if they don't allow more foreigners than the quality of the league will most likely drop...which would have a negative impact on our USMNT (and the sport in this country). The point would be to not have to go fishing for crap talent to try and fill roster spots and make MLS a target for foreign players to go to (like the EPL is for Americans).
     
  24. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let me put it this way so that you can grasp what i'm saying...by 2030 (if not sooner), i would like the league to look like this:

    MLS
    East
    1. New England Revolution
    2. New York Red Bulls
    3. D.C. United
    4. Columbus Crew
    5. Chicago Fire
    6. Toronto FC
    7. Atlanta (expansion)
    8. Philadelphia (expansion)
    9. Saint Louis (expansion)
    10. Cleveland (expansion)
    11. Florida (expansion)
    12. Carolina (expansion)

    future expansion- New York 2, Detroit, Montreal, Rochester, Milwaukee, Tennessee/Birmingham/New Orleans, Pittsburgh/Indianapolis, Florida2, Hartford/Providence

    West
    1. Los Angeles Galaxy
    2. Chivas USA
    3. Colorado Rapids
    4. Real Salt Lake
    5. Kansas City Wizards
    6. Houston Dynamo
    7. FC Dallas
    8. San Jose Earthquakes (expansion)
    9. Seattle (expansion)
    10. Las Vegas (expansion)
    11. Vancouver (expansion)
    12. Portland (expansion)

    future expansion- Phoenix, Texas 3, San Diego, Sacramento, San Francisco, Minnesota, Oklahoma

    ...If you think adding 2-4 extra SI slots is going to hurt the USMNT if MLS expands to 11 different markets than you are crazy. And i would much rather the league look like the one above where there is a team in at least every major region of the country than only having 14 teams where only four foreigners can start but a lot of the country isn't even involved with the league. Really, which one do you think would be better for the sport in the country?
     
  25. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    Fair point. If you decreased the US players per team, but increased the number of teams, you could easily wind up with as many or more Americans total as before.
     

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