Mexico vs Brasil post game thread [R]

Overall it was not a bad game for Mexico. The result shouldve been expected, with Brazil having their WCQ next month, so to them this was a little more then a "friendly".

Goalie:
Memo was easily Mexico's best. It doesnt even suprise me anymore. He has proven he is the best Mexicohas to offer, and shows the potential to make a case for best Mexican goalie ever. If the guy doesnt leave to Europe by the next transfer window it will be a crime.

Defense:
Castro is a serious contender for the starting position postion on the left. Im usually disappointed with Magallon but I thought he did well, a couple things he needs to work on but he held his own tonight. Rafa was having a great game then came his assist to Kaka, I just hope he can limit those (better yet erase them completely) mistakes as he picks up level of play completely. Salcido did good defensively even though he was caught out of place a few times, but offensively a lot of his runs were mistimed and ineffective, which is rare to see from him.

Midfield:
As a unit, they were good defensively. Torrado and Correa did a lot of running which is what is expected as D-Mids, but offensively they provide almost nothing which is discouraging. Playing with 2 contenciones helps the opponents focus on the wings defensively, which makes it harder for the attacking team. Thats the reason why our wings had to take on atleast 2 players anytime they attempted to go forward. Guardado and Arce did their job and did good, both are the solidified starters. Correa was a ghost on the field for periods of time during the game, but that tends to happen to our contenciones a lot. Torrado did what he does best and thats hustle and fight for balls, but provides nothing going forward. I think its time we start playing with only 1 contencion or atleast a combo of Araujo or Mejia paired with Pardo b/c Pardo has the ability to go forward, and let the 1 of the young guns run/fight their hearts out as a contencion.

Forwards:
Nery was a complete disappointment. He lost the ball 95% of the times he touched it, and 1 of the few times he decided he was going to pass we scored, so that should be a huge hint. Hopefully he realizes he needs to pass more, and somebody needs to teach him to keep his head up when he runs with the ball. Cacho didnt do much besides the goal, but he also didnt get much support from Nery. They had an off game, however I still think this is a good combo upfront until Gio, Vela, and Landin are polished and ready.

Subs:
None of them had enough time to really show much, but hope the young guys got valueable time, experience, and lessons from the older guys and just being at the concentration overall.


What needs to improve:
*Mexico needs to work on making sure if their going to lose, make the other team beat them because to often they find ways to beat themselves.
*Stay with the same high intensity throughout the game, they always (I mean always) come out "flat" the first 15 minutes of the second half.
*Somebody please let Hugo know/help when he should make subs.

Last words:
I still am very optomistic about this team, and the rising talent of it. The average age of the 23 players mustve been in the early 20's (my guess is 23) so we have nothing to be ashamed as we look forward.
Hugo still can use more coaching lessons, because tactically there comes a point in the game when changes need to be made yet they never are. (Should ask Pekerman for some advice, he is in Toluca I imagine it wont be too hard to have a sit down with him and talk tactics)
It always hurts to lose, but keep in mind it is Brazil (not many teams in the whole world can even go into a game against Brazil with the mindstate that they can beat them), and it was more of a friendly to us then it was for them. I just pray we keep playing quality oppenents in friendly games, and not play teams like Panama, Guatemala, or China. I'd rather see us play teams like Nigeria, Ghana, England, Germany, Holland, Spain, or even Austrailia.

 

I just read more posts and it seems alot of people are hatin on Rafa way too much for that bad clearance. The guy was involved in alot of plays where he stopped the Brazilians in their tracks, intercepting the ball, reading plays. I think we take him for granted. Without his presence and leadership today, it would have been a long night for us.

I think Gio and Vela were put in together to see how well both players complemented each other since Gio and Nery werent all that impressive against Panama. I know it is too early to say, but I have a good feeling of those 2 and wouldnt be surprised if Nery became the next Guille in a few years. I think its gonna take alot for a player with Nery's characteristics and attitude to fit in with TEAM players like Gio and Vela. With that temper I would be afraid to give Nery a bad pass for fear of getting yelled at. I cant imagine young talents like Gio and Vela to prosper when surrounded with Nerys. I know Nery is one of the best we got but if Vela improves, I could easily see him taking his spot.

All speculation, but thats only considerin if Hugo cant find room for all 3 on the field together and if Nery just doesnt fit well with the chemistry that the other players have. He may jus become dead weight

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but despite the result when I saw Giovani and Vela come in on that sub I felt a bunch of crazy feelings. I was overwhelmed que estos chamacos campeones del sub-17 han llegado hasta aca. I felt proud as hell too. Sometimes people, we gotta look at the good things instead of just the bad when we lose especially if it's against Brasil.

 

I'll read the thread later.

Without anyone tainting my opinion:

Memo is the MVP.

Guardado was okay, not great.

Nery was horseshit.

Cacho has been crap.

Gio and Vela needed to come on at the start of the 2nd half, or 10 minutes in.

Hugo waited too long tonight.

Correa was invisible.

Marquez makes another dumb mistake.

Arce has no dribbling skill whatsoever.

If I were Hugo Sanchez, I'd have subbed out Cacho and Arce 10 minutes into the 2nd half for Vela (Cacho's spot) and Gio (Arce's minus the defensive duties).

Problem being easy access on the right flank for Brasil.

Memo is lightyears ahead of everyone else in terms of importance.

He's amazing.

Israel Castro once again shutting 'em down.

That entire backline was cold.

But dumb mistakes led to the goals.

I'm holding out here, expecting Hugo to pull a fast one on all of us come Qualifying and drop the 2 dmids for a 10.

More looks at Cerda and Guerrero, please.

Let's see Torrado and Hernandez in midfield, and then switch Pelon for Pato/Barrera to anticipate the Olympic midfield.

EDIT: Just the post above me alone... I agree. Something good happened when Gio and Vela came in. It felt right. Our two 18 year old boys on the pitch for Nery and Cacho. Our negrito. Mi Gio. Que chulo.

 

I believe Luis Bueno sums up the game pretty good.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/luis_bueno/09/12/brazil.mexico/index.html

 

******** You! I couldn't have said this any better , Nice observation.

 

Lots of things to learn from this game. If Mexico could get their act together and learn how to defend set plays better we would be a world class team. How many times have we been screwed by corners and free kicks?

One of the good things is we made Brazil work hard. They didn't just come in and put in 3 easily. We have the potential to get better if we keep playing quality teams. I like the sound of Spain, they are a good team. Germany too. I have wanted to play both of those for a while. No more Honduras and Bolivia. Its time to step it up.

 

I agree with everything you said, except the Correa comments. I saw him fighting for the ball many more times than Torrado. Personally I think that Correa did a good job holding down the midfield, but come on when did you see any long passes from any of the 2 DM's tonight? None. I guess thats where Mr. Pardo would come in handy or el Pato.

 

No.

Mr. Pardo is too slow for the international game.

Don't let the Bundesliga fool you.

That dude reeks balls with the national team.

The last time he did anything meaningful was when Carlos de los Cobos was his coach.

11 years ago, Jack.

 

Thing I didn't like was the severe defensive errors that were made . This mistakes are the ones that have like a 98% chance you will get scored on.
Midfield I gotta say was a bit shiit , Not sure if I liked Arce , the boy made like 23 attemps to dribble his way into the brazilian defence but not one time did he made it through ,
Gio should have replaced Cacho 20 minutes after first half , " I was kinda suprised he actually made that goal he looked scared and lanky ".
Best player was indeed Ochoa ,though he got 3 goals scored on those are the type of goals that you blame the defence not the keeper ,
Was a bit dissapointed by Salcido..
Castillo was just off today.

 

My ratings and Explanations for them (1-10:

Ochoa: 9.0 excelent positioning and rushes/blocks, 3 goals were for the
most part unstopable and not his fault.
Castro: 9.0 was a rock but he needs to advance more often
Magallon: 8.0 was very good but lost his mark a couple of times, offensively
his runs were good.
Rafa: 7.5 was good defensively but had a couple of brain farts...he
was the weakest defensively.
Salcido 7.5 almost had a brain fart on defense but was okay going
forward
Correa 7.5 did nothing going forward but him and torrado were very good
in the middle
Torrado 8.0 excelent defensively, sucks going forward
Arce: 9.0 strong defensively and offensively did everything a mid should
due
Guardado: 9.0 strong on both sides of the field can't really ask for more
Nery: 4.5 okay defensively but is way to selfish and stupid offensively
(worst player in the game).
Cacho: 8.0 his passing is excelent (his pass to arce almost lead to a
goal) his movement and positioning in the box is unquestionable.
He offers passing, scoring, and can hold the ball until help arrives.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vela and Gio didn't play enough to accurately rate them but i'll give you my impression of the two.
Vela was the most impressive of the two, he managed to impose more by chasing after service and possesion. Giovanni for the most part just waited for service, he needs to contend for possession (ala castillo).

 

Way off on the Arce rating.

 

Salcido definitely doesn't look the same, maybe he's still tired.

 

The 4-4-2 needs to be banned. We have no 9s except maybe Cacho.


Since Arce didnt want to go to Europe, kick that fool off the team. Any player who is not in Europe or with no possibility of going should not be on the national team.

Hugo was able to make up a successful system for Copa America after the disaster, I sure hope he can develop another good one for the World Cup, I have faith...not much, but some

 

I like to point out that while Cacho is the best "complete/target" forward (i.e he offers passing, finishing, an aerial threat, and can hold the ball up) but he tires quickly and has limited mobility, he needs to be subbed at half-time.

I was skeptical of Vela but he offers a lot of mobility and has good size in comparison to Gio/Nery...He may be a good sub for Cacho.

Starting 11 that i'd like to see in a 4-1-2-2-1

-------------------------------[Ochoa]---------------------------------
------[Castro]-------[Marquez]---------[Magallon]-------[Salcido]-------
-------------------------------[Torrado]--------------------------------
------------------[Arce]-------------------[Guardado]------------------
------[Giovanni]----------------------------------------[Castillo]--------
-------------------------------[Cacho]---------------------------------

I would like to see this combination because it offers an excelent compromise between defense and offense. It also masks the deficiencies of certain players like torrado who in this formation can focuses soley on defense while allowing the surrounding players to bring up the ball.

 

People seem to really like castro. What exactly has he done?

 

I thought Arce looked strong defensively, held the ball quite well, and his free kicks were very good. The only fault that he has is that he is not a very good finisher.

I like to know you reasoning for why you think my rating is way off on Arce

 

He was very strong defensively and was capable when going forward. I believe that all of the goals came from the opposite side.

 

One thing I noticed about Rafa, was that he was getting beat by Kaka, speed wise, early in the 1st half.

Magallon had to back him up with some good D a couple of times.

 

Am I the only one that thinks that brasil just played an awesome game and came out on top? I havent seen brasil in that form in a while

 

best part of the game was zague getting a tribute

eres magico zague!!!!!!!!!

 

My .02 on this game is that Mexico lost another opportunity to beat Brazil. All the Mexican players were hanging on to the ball a second too long, and gav up some genuinely strong scoring opportunities in the process.

Mexico plays well against good teams, but they just cannot afford to have a split second lapse in concentrtion because the big teams ALWAYS punish those indiscretions. Rafa looked great all game, but his whiff on the clearance is what everyone will remember.

Overall, I think what Hugo is doing is working: the 2 players who have improved the most in Hugo's tenure have been Arce and Magallon. Ochoa has distanced himself from the rest of the keepers, and it won't be long before he is minding nets for a G-14 team. He will be considered one of the top keepers in the world in 2010. Although Gio and Carlitos didn't get as many touches as we would like, they'll have their chance. Nery had his worst game with the Tri, but he is still a difference maker, as he showed in the goal.

Mexico has learned how to win, now they need to learn how not to beat themselves.

 

As far as I am concern does player can stay at home.
Borgetti is pass his time, he is much to slow and drags the speed of our team down.

Bofo has not looked like bofo in a long time. In Copa America he looked lazy and slow.

Lozana hustles but makes dumb passes and does not read runs correctly.

Kikin has fallen fast. I use to think very highly of him but of late he just doesn't perform. His heart is with the tri but his ability has seemed to have wondered away. I wouldn't be appose to him being recalled but not against Brazil.

I can't comment on the game since I didn't see it but I think the starting line up we had is pretty close to who should be starting, other then Osorio missing. You can argue that Pardo was missing also, who I think very highly of, but come the next World Cup he will be 34-35, its time to prepare for life without him.

Nery, Gio, Vela, Guardado, Memo are the future with time on their side. I hope Hugo has the ability to make them gel nicely.

Does any one have a torrent of this game or have a link I can download it. Much appreciate it.

 

who would u guys suggest takes arces spot?

 

i think pity altamirano was a good choice to play as a right winger. Arce is ok but like Nery he ballhogs too much and i think Mexico would have had more opportunities to score had it not been for arce and nery trying to do everything on their own. Mexico needs to play more like a team, i think the goal is proof of that. I think they played a decent game, considering brazil didnt breakaway until the end.