Welcome to the thread. Good post, well put. You have also brought up valid point's about the structure of both leagues. Yes the MLS has a strict salary cap but only when they enforce it. Bringing Beckham into the MLS fray kind of blew that strict salary cap out the window. Lot's of players' in the league now, American & imported players' alike have been speaking up about how unfair Beckham's deal is & in a way I can't blame them as he's not even the best player in the MLS in my opinion dispite all the hype makers' behind the Beckham deal that would like us to believe & go along with all the hoopla. I see two problems' now as a result of all this. The first is in order for the other teams' to compete with the Galaxy as far as drawing more people to the games', ect ... They will feel the need to sign a world known, high profile player as well. Now can they in reality do this? Who really know's? Is the money there across the board for each & every club to do this? Again, who know's? I don't think it's there as far as money goes across the board. Second if by chance it is for any world class top flight player to even consider coming here to play they will want the same, if not more than Beckham stand's to make these next five years' & I can't see that happening as then it's like I've been saying ... Everything of old is new once again, same old song & dance, same formula. You might think ok why am I reading so deep into all this? Well as some of you know I played at the professional level years' ago. I'm still very much connected with the sport, with my academy, the masters' (Old Guys') team I play for & I have direct connections with the in's & out's & going's on with some top level European clubs' because of my business. I know for a fact particular parties' within the corp level of the MLS have been in constant contact with corp level heads' of some very big clubs' in Europe. I'm not going to mention names' but some very high profile players' in their prime, top of their game have been approached about playing in the MLS. I'm talking about some very big names' here guys. Players' far better than Beckham skillwise & far better known in the Football/Soccer world as a whole. Every single one of these players' thus far has asked for a better deal than Beckham's deal. Each & everyone of them has been told no way! This is not a pipe dream on my part. It's fact & the result is all these high level high profile players' have responded with two words' ... No thanks! This is the problem & what I have been talking about. With the Beckham deal the bar has been raised so very high the MLS has painted themselves into a corner. No player considered better than Beckham will come over here to play for anything less than his deal. Sad to say it but it's true. This will all be interesting to watch as it's played out. I for one hope the league suceeds. Oh Jim, not to argue with you but the players' I mentioned about having equal marketing as Beckham is pretty much spot on. I've never used Nike soccer products' but they as a company look to overtake Adidas in the near future as having the lions' share of the soccer product market. They pretty much take up the vast majority of add space in almost every single soccer related magazine in the world. I know as I travel quite often. I see the faces' of Man United's Rooney, Ronaldo & Barca's Ronnie far more out there in adds' than Beckham's. Henry used to be a major face of Nike as well. Now he's the face of Rebok. So right now yes I agree with you. Beckham is the face of the MLS & one of the major face's of Adidas but in the soccer world as a whole, no even close. These other players' I've just mentioned are being pushed out under the spotlight much harder. You guys' have a good afternoon.
As opposed to the NASL days I really believe this era of soccer is a little different. The biggest major Cups the NASL had were the Soccer Bowl and Transatlantic Challenge Cup. I think back then many foreigners loved to come over for a summer in the Euro offseason to play for a summer, I.E. Trevor Francis along with many others. Chinaglia was done in Italy as was Best in England when they came here. Pele, Franz had won everything when they signed for the Cosmos and I don't think the money in Europe & South America (at that time) was as grand as it is in today's soccer world. Today with the UEFA & Champions league format and the EPL & TV bonus money + sponsorships for the players, many top names would be sacrificing quite a bit to come over to the MLS to play. I knew a defender who just retired in Italy Fabio Petruzzi was making 500-600k Euro a year and he was just an average defender playing as a reserve for Roma and then moving to lower tiered Serie A clubs like Brescia & Bologna. For an average 1st division player, thats a great salary. I can just imagine what the top names like Vieri would get even if they are past their prime.
Your right flavo. When this entire Beckham deal went public many top level players' all over Europe shook their heads' & laughed but at the same time gave it a thumbs' up! thinking it would open doors' for them as well if they chose to come here to play & they are finding out it's just not the case. This has been my point all along with this Beckham deal it's raised the bar so high as far as players' wage's are concerned. Like I've already said at the moment this Beckham thing is working but in reality it's only going to be short term interest on the publics' part like everything here. This time next year much of it will already have lost it's luster & died off. It just lack's the substance to last long term.
Like I said I'd rather invest in "brick and mortar" rather than a player. The player will be done in 5 years flat if not sooner but the stadia will be around for a long time.
Gino, I don't doubt the players you mention are better marketing properties than Beckham overseas and throughout the global soccer community, but none of them have recognition HERE in the states anywhere close to Beckham's. Bringing him to the US is about tapping the huge market HERE -- not there. They simply do not have the recognition to make an impression in the American marketing scene. It has nothing to do with how well they're received elsewhere. Do you honestly think mainstream American media outlets (think CNN, Vanity Fair, The Wall Street Journal, Rolling Stone) would be buzzing with headlines if Lionel Messi announced he was coming to MLS?
Do you think those players are assuming they're in line for "Beckham deals" because they consider themselves better players than Beckham, or better marketing properties than Beckham? Which of these players (and their managers and agents) truly think they would outperform Beckham in American marketing deals? I doubt there are many, if any at all. I can see an MLS club dropping millions to bring a Messi or an Henry . . . I just don't see Sierra Mist or Doritos doing the same. Do you?
Hi Jim ... Well it depend's on a number of factors'. Beckham is being pushed out there in the American Football/Soccer related market & let's face it. That only matter's here, in the US. The US is not the Mecca of the sport. I'm not trying to come off sarcastic, just presenting the facts'. The market here has no substance. Things' change in the blink of an eye. Here today, gone tomorrow ... Next! There are players' in the game better known, more respected & are being pushed harder where it count's the most. On the world's market. So what we are talking about is a difference in markets'.. Rooney,Ronaldo,Henry,& Ronnie from Barca sport related items already outsell any Beckham related products' on the market here & they are all playing in Europe so that tells' us something right there. Like I've all ready mentioned in my line of business I know alot of inside information that most people won't hear about so trust me, I'm not just running my mouth here. Like I've also said there have been a number of very high profile players', great players' that would leave Beckham in the dust. On & off the pitch. Lot's of them looked at the Beckham deal as a green light go situation for them & found out different. Some very very big names' in the game Jim. For legal reasons' I have to keep quiet about what information I do know related to who, what, when, where, ect ... But deals' were drawn up & offered. Some big names' in the game laughed at the pathetic offers' said no thank you & that's that. So to answer your question. Yes I think at least a dozen world class players' could be marketed here better than Beckham if the powers that be here wanted it that way. Actually outside of the MLS it is already being done within the industry. I also think as things change so fast & in the blink of an eye, this time next year this Beckham mania we are seeing now will be dust in the wind so to say. It's not meant to last. It's designed to make money for some people & they will have made their money & that's what is most important to them.
Jim ... It's pretty clear to me that dispite the fact we are all different with different opinions' & views' we all have one thing in common. We all have a true passion for this sport we love so much ... Football/Soccer. That being said we will not alway's agree on each & every topic which is fine & only natural. Your anything but a stupid person just like everyone that has posted to this thread. We have kept things' civil with respect for one another which is how it should be. My gut feeling based on experience of being on both side's of the soccer fence here in this country as a player & also as working in the industry with my own business is this Beckham thing going on will not last long term. Again you as well as all that post to this thread can agree, or not agree with me as it's just my opinion on the matter. You, myself & Flavo could all go to a game tomorrow fought out by two good sides' where good tactics were involved & they battled back & fourth for ninety minutes & the game end's 1 - nil or a draw. Chances are we would all walk away happy as if the game was played hard by both sides' we understand the tactics' involved, the different styles of play ect ... My point is now what's going on with Beckham is alot of people going to Galaxy games' wouldn't have done so a year earlier. They are not flocking to games to see a good game of soccer but going to see a show.They want to see what all the Beckham fuss is about. This time next year they will have long since become bored with it all & will have moved on to chase down the latest fad, trend, craze, ect ... On the marketing end of things' here it's geared up to make the most profits' than can in the least amount of time as they know very well what I've already just mentioned ... It won't last long. You guys' have a good day!
I would respectfully disagree that the Beckham rule throws the salary cap out the window. Teams are still obligated to stay within the salary cap rules, except for the player they term the designated player. That is far different than allowing a team to purchase as many players as they like. You mention the others who might want the same deal as Beckham. Keep in mind that the majority of Beckham's MLS income is his responsibility. It comes from endorsements, not from salary. His previous contract required him to give his club 50% of his endorsement income. His MLS contract allows him to keep 100% of the endorsement money. The endorsements are responsible for the vast majority of the reported $250 million. It seems to me that others who would demand the same kind of money have the obligation to ask themselves if they have the power to get the endorsements. It would be their personal responsibility to create the income they desire. That being said, there must come a point when MLS teams will be able to bid for players on the world market. That is not in the near term future, but to gain an equal footing on the world stage, it will have to happen.
Agreed & well put ... The deal Beackham has got has created problems though. Various teams' within the structure of the MLS have been talking with players' that would fill that roll your talking about regarding one high profile signing per team. Problem is though some teams' have been talking to some very big names' in the sport & offering in no way near the package Beckham has which these players' are expecting to be matched & the end result is these big name players' say ... No thanks! & walk away. This is the problem I've mentioned about. I do agree with you on one topic though & that is in able to compete on the world stage as far as professional club soccer is concerned they will, if they really want it to grow be able to bid on the world market for top players' & they cannot do that now at this point in time. The Beckham deal was rare as he's not worth anywhere near the amount he stand's to make. I can't see the MLS doing the same deals' for others' as the money across the board is not there.
See, I think all those names mentioned (as well as the other players that you know of through your professional info) are genuine world-class football stars, but none of them are really stars here in the States. So I trust your take on the CALIBER of player we're talking baout here. Beckham, on the other hand, is a media superstar. He's well-paid for his performance on the field, but he's compensated even better for his contributions off the field, through revenue sharing plans mentioned earlier. I think the brand managers at major American sponsors would be reluctant to put big money on Ronaldinho, Drogba, or Kaka. Those guys just don't have the "mainstream penetration" that those deals require. An easier way to judge it is simply to ask yourself if a certain player is a household name in America . . . not just among the MLS existing fan base, but in ALL of American society. No soccer players are, but Becks is the closest. Many other guys may be worth more on the field, but not for their box office appeal.
Jim ... All the players' you have mentioned do indeed have the (Global) mainstream marketing penetration your speaking about. Some of them, are from world championship sides which Beckham cannot claim. You are 100% right in saying Beckham is by far the most important figure in American soccer but that's it! Beyond the US where it matters' most he's considered at best as a professional ... Average at best. American business people fail to understand this & they don't care. It's all about the money. Like I've already said a year from now, mark my word. It will be all blown over, dead in the sand & you will be thinking & saying ... That SOB Gino was right! Trust me Jim I've been there, done that & I understand the nature of the beast so to say. You & falavo & a few others' here I respect. I consider you my friends' here. That being said I think what I have said will, said to say come true.
I think we're starting to talk about two different things . . . the global scene and the American scene. My argument is about the American scene . . . not how well Nike can sell their products in Europe, but how well they can sell them here in the States. The global scene . . . Ronaldinho wears Nikes, and Nike pays him a lot presumably and let's assume for this discussion he's worth every penny. People worldwide buy the Nike gear he wears and models. Nike (an American company) understands his value on the global scene, and they market him there accordingly. Nike even uses Ronaldinho in some American ads, those that are directed at the soccer consumer who is likely to buy $200 football boots. The American scene . . . Beckham is in a campaign that advertises Motorola Razr cell phones, and again let's assume he's worth what they pay him. His billboard is up in Times Square in NYC and at Hollywood & Highland in Los Angeles, and many other places. A Razr has nothing to do with soccer, it's a consumer electronic product and the buyers include soccer fans and non-soccer fans. Ronaldinho doesn't have a Motorola ad in America. Why not? Because non-soccer fans don't know who he is, and America has WAY MORE non-soccer fans than soccer fans. Even though he's a bigger star globally than Beckham, he holds no relevance to the typical American crossing the street in Times Square or driving down Hollywood Blvd. But those Americans know Beckham -- even though they are not soccer fans, they still recognize his name and face. That's not true for Essien, John Terry, Raul, or Klose or Crespo . . . the typical American doesn't know them. So none of them can come to the States and claim they want a Beckham deal. They can ask for a better wage, a better transfer fee, etc . . . but they can't expect to get an American Pepsi commercial, because Pepsi is likely to say "you're a great soccer player, but 90% of our market -- the American soda drinker -- doesn't know you".
The initial idea of the MLS was to have a single entity and not emulate another NY Cosmos and/or NASL. Before the start of the league all I kept hearing and reading was that the only competition would be on the field and not in owners pocket books no more Cosmos no more NASL. Since their inception however, they have done the exact same thing that the Cosmos have done and in many cases, even worse. This is supposed to be a single entity where everyone was to be on an even keel? Its obvious the league wants a LA vs NY final each year! Just look at the rosters both NY & LA have had. I mean a FIFA All Star squad while while other teams like San Jose/Houston have been utterly ignored! You can argue many of them didn't accomplish much but they were given every oportunity to succeed. This is supposed to be a fair league? My point is sure let's sign the stars if we can but let's also be fair and distribute them around the league! NY Branco (1997) Antony de Ávila (1996–1997) Adolfo Valencia (2000–2001) Roy Myers (1999, 2000, 2001) Youri Djorkaeff (2005–2006) Lothar Matthäus (2000) Amado Guevara (2003–2006) Roberto Donadoni (1996–1997) Ronald Waterreus (2007–) Tim Howard (1998–2003) Alexi Lalas (1998) Clint Mathis (2000–2003, 2007—) Tony Meola (1996–1998, 2005–2006) Eddie Pope (2003–2004) Tab Ramos (1996–2002) Claudio Reyna (2007—) LA Jorge Campos (1996–1997) Mauricio Cienfuegos (1996–2003) Carlos Hermosillo (1998–1999) Luis Hernández (2000–2001) Andreas Herzog (2004) Eduardo Hurtado (1996–1998) Alexi Lalas (2001–2003) Hong Myung-Bo (2003–2004) Carlos Ruíz (2002–2004) Cobi Jones & David Beckham
That list is completely absurd. You just drawing up every decent player who ever played for those teams and calling them a cap-busting World Star? You may have a point with Branco and Herndandez, most of the rest of them are nuts.
Hello all ... Again good post, good points'! This is by far the best thread I've posted to. It gives' me hope knowing there are thinkers' out there & all I can say is well done! I just happen to think a year from now we will all hear much less of Beckham. He won't care, the owners' of the Galaxt won't care, & the non-soccer playing or interested public flocking to games' right now won't care as they will all be onto soething else & that's been my point all along. Who will be the losers' in all of this? The die hard MLS fans', that's who. No matter how they market him. Beckham alone is by no means' strong enough to raise the game here to the next level. It's not going to happen period!
Except that he's not being marketed in that way, as the "savior of the sport" as a player who'll single-handedly take MLS " to the next level." I agree that, in a year, we'll hear a lot less about Beckham, which will be a wonderful thing. Thing is, he may well be playing in MLS, and performing quite well at that point. It's just that the hoopla will have worn off and he, and MLS, can get down to what it needs to be doing: playing soccer. I find it astonishing that you can say that, in a year, Beckham won't care, the Galaxy won't care... The general, non-soccer public won't much care about what Beckham's doing on the field, but the man's a star, and as long as he's still playing, and playing well (certainly, as long as he's getting England call-ups and, assuming he heals and regains form, I assume he has an excellent shot as bieng on the Euro 2008 roster...assuming England qualify) his face will be on TV, and not just ESPN. But saying Beckham and the Galaxy won't care confuses me. I'd say the Galaxy care deeply about the kind of player Beckham is for them over the next four years. And everything DB's said implies he cares about this, as well. I'd say that "die hard soccer fans" in this country stop being afraid of their own shadows, stop losing sleep over the future of the sport here, the future of MLS. Stop it and, instead, settle in and enjoy the ride. Soccer and MLS aren't going away in this country. The growth continues, maybe not as quickly as some would like. And maybe there will be experiments that go off track. But the forward momentum this sport and MLS have is undeniable. Even if there will always misguided folk out there only too eager to deny it.
I agree here . . . but I've been blabbing for three days about advertisements so I decided to stand down. If the Galaxy are contending in the coming years, then a lot of people will still be hearing about Beckham whether they care to or not!
Ok maybe the use of the word FIFA World All Star was a little exaggerated. Although I'm sure Youri , Lothar , Branco, Donadoni and Beckham will have been on a FIFA all star squad at one point or another during their careers. Also, if he wanted to play, Jurgen Klinsman could have played for LA if he wanted to also but didn't. The bottom line is and my main point was that both LA & NY have been given every opportunity to do well in the MLS while other clubs have been completely ignored. The Mexican & Latin players alone that the Galaxy have had have created quite a legacy which I'm sure have historically anyway, made a lot of loyal (returning Latin) fan base to come out and watch the Galaxy matches after those players were done. If San Jose had all those players, I'm willing to bet at least another 3-5k will have been added to their average attendance (bringing their avg att to at least 17-18k a match) and AEG wouldn't have had to move the club in the first place and blame all their troubles on attendace to try and justify the move to Houston. Again I could go on and on but this doesn't have anything to do with what happened to the NASL, so I'll let it go.
It is quite possible that MLS bit off a little more than it can chew with the Beckham deal. It did set the bar pretty high for other players. I think the market itself will eventually settle the issue. Beckham is not around forever, and his endorsement value could drop like rock in very short order, given the right circumstances. That would take some of the pressure off when the league talks to other players. Player egos play such a big part in this. There are many who can make a valid argument that they are better players than Beckham. Unfortunately, the skill level component is not really the deciding factor. The public image of the player will trump every other aspect in the US.
I just think the times have changed between the NASL and now. In today's world its all about competition, money and exposure. I've been an advocate of wanting over 30's and over 35 year old stars in the MLS but I just don't think they really want to come as much as they did before. I'm willing to bet had Beckham had an option back in January he would have opted to stay in Spain as he stated after they won La Liga. They didn't leave him much hope so he decided to come over. I'm sure he has already regretted the move as now he is injured not only for his club but also for his country which I'm sure he cares more about than the Galaxy. Unless you are Maldini, Totti & Nesta (who have won everything) the majority of the players want the national team. Ronaldo could have come to the USA but he opted for Milan becuase (in his words) he "wants to play for a team in a league that matters" . Il calcio che conta di piu! I'm sure most Euro & south American feel the same way.
Good post ... in particular ...(He want's to play for a team in a league that really matters") That sum's it up right there & hit's the nail right on the head. In Europe club owners' are more concerned with the end result. Becoming league champions. To win the Champions' League as they know the profits' will come more in the long run. They see the big picture. It come's down to different cultures' that use different business methods'. Here in the US the MLS movers' & shakers' are all about what & who sells? What way can they make a profit in the least amount of time, image, is this or that player somebody we can market? It's the American way & has it's pros' & cons'. In Europe, in any big league team owners' are more focused on a player's ability to give them result's on the pitch. That's what it's about over there, the result. That's why in more cases more often than not European & South American sides' are much stronger than American one's. Even fans' are different. Here because Beckham is injured there are people asking for refunds! Refunds! They are not going to see a Football/Soccer match. They are going to see a show. The greatest show on Earth as it's being billed. In Europe & South America the fans' have their idols. In the case a star player like say Rooney or Ronaldo from Man United or Ronnie or Henry from Barca or Rudd from Madrid & so on is injured or out & cannot play fans' there don't go looking for refunds. Sure they will be disapointed but beyond the idols' they follow the teams' they pull for. Different cultures, different business practices', different ways' of looking at the game.
I still sense a prevailing theme of QUICK BUCK in the comments you guys post about MLS. Are you guys aware of the numbers at play in MLS economics? Do you know what some of these guys make? What could possibly be a SLOWER BUCK than MLS??? You admire the idol status of the Euro players, but when MLS players are promoted as stars you scoff. Those comments typically come from the Eurosnobs, that no matter what happens in the American game it won't be quite right because it's not on the same level as the European game. You're entitled to have that opinion, but I think it's misinformed to claim that MLS' movers & shakers are only interested in what sells & who sells. Exactly who in MLS has made a quick bundle and cashed out? When I mentioned earlier that the Hunts, AEG, and the Krafts have been in it since the start, the reply was "well, I'm not talking about THOSE guys". So WHO are we talking about? All the league's owners have each invested 8- or 9-figure sums in MLS . . . do you think they're living high on MLS profits?
Hi again guys' ... First of all I think it's safe to say we all have different opinions. Mine are based on having experienced the game from both side's of the fence. When I mentioned that the business end of things' in the game is very different here in the US compared to how things are run in Europe I wasn't just grasping at straws in the dark. Having played on both side's of the pond I understand both methods' very well. True I was born in Europe but I'm anything but a Eurosnob. I admire many American players' as well as many things' about American culture in general & that being said I'll talk no further on these particular topics. The Beckham deal is very big business & very big money for all interested parties, Beckham being one of them. The way Beckham is being marketed in my opinion is for short term, high gains & the people in the league backing him are banking on his image to rasie the face of American professional Football/Soccer. By me saying the approach in Europe is quite different is not just my personal view or opinion it's fact. As I already mentioned over there in the big European leagues it's all about the result. Image is not that important there. A high skilled player who produces results is! That's why we see such a mad transfer window over there 2 times a year as all those clubs are looking for the right blend of players' to give them not only league championships but the champions league as well. Over here in the MLS other than die hard Galaxy fans' nobody flocking to games really care's what place the Galaxy are in on the tables. They just want to see the Beckham show. So it comes down to different cultures' that practice different business methods' related to this sport. There are pros' & cons' to everything I suspose. Back on topic let's just hope the MLS doesn't end up like the NASL as I guess that's what the thread topic was about anyway.