Actually, the time frame (1975-1984) for the NASL was just too short lived! The NASL was far from a failure in my opinion it created a legacy and steppingstone for the game of soccer in the USA and we would not be here if it wasn't for the NASL. The NASL and their players did a lot for the game. In San Jose and across the nation, you still have many NASL pros conducting soccer camps. The youth soccer boom exploded with the impact of the NASL. I doubt the MLS would be here today if it weren't for the NASL. As far as the argument of NASL vs MLS , the initial idea of the MLS was to not emulate the same mistakes as NASL and to have all of their competition be on the field and not be in the front office. Some of us fans across the country however, have seen biased favoritism among many teams not only in the league office but with the owners which in many other countries could be considered scandalous. The MLS does and has infact make and made many of the same mistakes the NASL has and probably in some ways just as bad. They have contracted and/or moved franchises and made and continue to make hideous mistakes. The $4 million Luis Hernandez scenario comes to mind and so far this Beckham deal IMO hasn't proved to be anything positive on the field even though he has been a success at the gate. He has played 360 minutes scored 1 goal & an assist in the Superliga and is now seeking a loan deal to England. He will be gone for the better parts of his first two years of his multi million dollar contract and if he does infact get loaned out to an EPL team and plays in the EURO 2008, it doesn't look like he will be back in LA at least until the end of July or August (especially if he wants or needs 3 weeks off after the finals) of next year as the UEFA 08 goes from June 7th to June 29th of 2008...... http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports...s5socpage.html http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...eeks-home-loan here is an excerpt: BECKS SEEKS HOME LOAN DAVID Beckham is considering putting his American dream on hold in a desperate bid to save his England career. He is seeking crisis talks with bosses of LA Galaxy to discuss a possible return to England on loan in January. The fiercely patriotic Beckham, who will definitely miss England’s next two European Championship qualifiers – and possibly the next four – with a knee ligament injury, believes it may be the only way to achieve his cherished dream of winning 100 England caps. “We need to sit down with him and do what’s best for our organisation and him." Aside from the Beckham deal , their scheduling of matches and playing thru national team games and Copa Americas, Gold Cups as well as WC's & WCQ matches is ridiculous. Also, if you look at NY's roster since 1996, you will see many more failures with some great players Branco, Donadoni, Lothar & Youri who did nothing to really make their teams win on the field or proved to be a positive thing at the gate. The Cosmos love them or hate them did much more for the game of soccer not only in NY but across the country than anything the Metros/Red Bull have in over a decade. Bruce Arena has said constantly that everyone still wants another Cosmos but it won't happen right away. When most people think of soccer in NY, who do you most people think of Meola & Vermes or Chinaglia & Pele?. As far as the NASL Americans are concerned, its difficult to judge as their time frame was not too short. Arnie Mausser, David Bricic, Jeff Durgan, Jimmy McAllister, Mike Hunter , Gary Etherington, Angelo Di Bernardo as well as Steve Moyers, Mark Peterson, Ricky Davis and Hugo Perez along with the Canadians of Bruce Wilson, Wes McLeod, Branko Segota and many others could have definitely played in the MLS. Are the Americans better today? Of course they are but they are also getting more playing time which is something that wasn't really the case during the NASL years. Also, if a player was 18-20 years old during the NASL heydey of 1977-1979 , he would have only been 25-27 (prime age for a soccer player) in 1984 when the league folded and no one could tell how he would have developed during his veteran years as a pro because the league folded, then they all played indoors. I can't recall seeing too many 35 year old Mark Chung's & Chris Henderson's in those days becuase they weren't allowed to play that long as the league folded. Could those NASL Americans have been just as good as today's MLS Americans like Dempsey & McBride, why not? Yes they could have but they weren't given a chance. If you look at the Olympic team at the the 1984 summer games in LA & Stanford you had many NASL Americans play a pretty good level of soccer as did the Canadian team that played and that also qualified for the 1986 WC in Mexico. That year the tournament was an actual mini World Cup as FIFA allowed pros play in the games as long as they hadn't played in WC matches. You had many 1st diviison pros from all over the world and if you look at those results and levels of play from that 84 US team , they did just as well as the 1994 WC USMNT did 10 years later. In many ways they even performed much better than the national teams of 90 ,98 & 06 World Cups not to mention much better than the 'B' team that went to Venezuela for the Copa America. Those Americans/Canadians did well that year also becuase they played and learned playing alongside great NASL players. I'm happy with the MLS and their progress especially in building of their own SSS and the committed owners. I'm not saying the MLS can't turn into something successful. Of course they can. I'm just saying we shouldn't continue to knock the NASL and their existence and believe Once In A Lifetime as being something out of the Bible. Historically the media and press has not given soccer its fair share in this country and that show did talk about some of the realities of the league but they tended to focus a lot on the negatives. there were however, many positives because I reiterate that if it weren't for the NASL we wouldn't be here discussing this now nor would there ever have been a World Cup in this country a successful national team or for that matter, an MLS start up.
I'm originally from San Jose and I agree that had it not been for the NASL, I would have probably not been involved in soccer as a child even though the NASL was disbanded before I could remember anything about it. But it was a failure. I think you are giving the NASL too much credit for the success of MLS. It's like giving credit to abusive parents for making such a tough kid. If the NASL was a success it wouldn't have folded and there would have never been a need for MLS to form. If credit should be given, it should be to the organizers that brought the World Cup to the US. If any entity revived America's interest in soccer it was the World Cup.
It depends on how you look at it. It was failure to a point but a success for the sport. It was a failure to the extent of continuing and/or prolonging the existence of the league but not about the existence of the game. The league did in fact fold and it was sad and unfortunate but if it wasn't for that league and the legacy it built and created especially with the youth & college soccer booms of the 70's, 80's & 90's, there would not ever have been an MLS. How could there be an MLS or an American World Cup for that matter, if it weren't for the NASL? No way it would have ever happened. You said, "if credit should be given, it should be to the organizers that brought the World Cup to the US". Therefore, you again must thank the NASL people because the successful organizer of the successful 1994 World Cup and the creator of the MLS was Alan Rothernberg who owned an NASL team. Another former NASL owner in Lamar Hunt started the MLS with two teams KC & Crew and was also the main guy who built the first SSS in Crew Stadium. Soccer in this country owes quite a bit to those NASL pioneers. Here is a good link that talks about... what happened to the NASL? https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247966&page=26 as well as other related NASL links.... https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24432&page=4 https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3973&page=12 https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=541758&page=4 https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158452&page=7 https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452567 https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=497927 https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412025 https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=565983&page=8 http://goalseattle.com/museum/interviews/david_derrico.htm and my favorite.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nplemK3Y4ns&mode=related&search=
Nope, it's simple. No NASL, no WC, no MLS. Period. Do you think for one second that FIFA would have given the US the WC if we had had no pro soccer here other than the old semipro ASL, or the new APSL? Sorry, no dice. In case you forgot, didn't know, or deliberately left this out, the formation of MLS was one of the conditions for getting the WC. The US organizers had nothing to do with it. It was all FIFA; either form a league, or no WC. The '84 Olympic soccer comp (during the time of the NASL) was one of the best attended ever, so it's not like the WC suddenly opened the eyes of Americans to soccer. We're giving the NASL too much credit? Try not enough. It's what got the millions of American kids playing the game in the first place. And I'm being serious when I say this too, it wouldn't take too much for MLS to suffer the same fate as the NASL. A couple of big-dollar guys pull out, stadiums or not, and it's over.
Very true and you make excellent points. However, as history seems to keep repeating itself in the sport of soccer in the USA, I'm sure another league would form quickly as the WSA/WSL/APSL did after the demise of the NASL. One good thing about building the stadia is that even if the league folds, someone will be playing soccer there sooner or later whether its a pro or semi pro league. Whomever the owners are and if they pull out , they will still own the stadiums and anyone can form or own a team of college or top high school youth picks for example and play exhibition matches or tournaments against Mexican teams and make money right away. The 1990 World Cup team was nothing but a college all star team who came together played matches and grew as they played. This could always happen with any team and league if the MLS were to fold.
Falvo and DavidP, I completely understand where you are coming from, but let me explain what I find wrong with what you both have implied. Giving credit to the NASL for the success of the WC and MLS is like Earthquakes fans giving AEG credit for getting San Jose an expansion team. The NASL was a failure as a soccer league. That's all I'm getting at. I never doubted the connections of the NASL to MLS, I just think it's bordering disrespect to credit the NASL for the success of MLS.
You are right on one point: the NASL failed. So what? So have a lot of other entities, whose failure led to the success of something else down the road. Had the NASL succeeded, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The point you're missing is that had it not been for the NASL, we wouldn't have been at the point to where MLS would have had a chance. There would have been no spectacular attendance at the '84 Olympics, no US National team at WC '90, and certainly no WC '94 in the US. And there would not be the millions of kids playing today, kids whose parents caught the "soccer bug" from watching NASL games, either on TV or at the stadium. It took the NASL to get to this point, failure or not. ASL 2 didn't have anywhere near the national footprint to start the ball rolling, as in the mid '60s, it was confined to the East coast for the most part. As has been stated in various and sundry threads on this board, the NASL put soccer on the map in this country, despite its ups and downs. A good many of the "twilight stars" who came to play here, stayed here, and had an effect that is still felt today. Had there been no NASL, this wouldn't have happened. The millions of kids who play now wouldn't be, as their parents (who are my age) wouldn't have had any exposure to soccer at all, much less on TV. A lot of these kids today are actually third generation; their grandparents (baby boomers) began playing in high school ('60s-70s, thanks to the NASL), their kids played from youth league on up, and now their kids are doing the same thing. I stand by my statement that we don't give the NASL enough credit for the success of MLS. Sometimes it takes failure to foster success. Peace.
I'm not missing that point at all. I'm just against giving the NASL any undue credit to the success of MLS. I have a friend who was adopted as a baby. His parents raised him properly and he got his degree and became a mechanical engineer. How much credit should his biological parents get for his success? In my opinion, hardly any. Sure if it wasn't for his biological parents he wouldn't even be alive, but they were careless and he was abandoned by them and had very little to do with his success in life other than giving birth to him. I feel as if soccer = my friend, NASL = his biological parents, MLS = adoptive parents.
You can't compare the two as they are two different scenarios. Whichever way you look at it, we still would never have had an MLS, youth or even any kind of mainstream soccer as we know it for that matter, if it weren't for the NASL. Love it or hate it, all of the modern day roots of US soccer point to the NASL.
In that case, why don't we just give credit to the 1966 England team and the movie Goal for their influence in creating the NASL? It's the same premise.
I guess what comes around goes around. Just like the English should thank America for intervening 20 years earlier for not having to take German language lessons.
Your parenting analogy doesn't work because it doesn't accommodate all the relevant factors. The NASL didn't merely birth the child and hand him over. It fed him for many years, gave him his foundation of family and friends, and brought him into early adolescence. MLS didn't pick up some abandoned newborn -- it got a gangly, awkward teen who was ready to be formed into a fully grown adult. That's enough metaphor-milking for one post, but you get the point. You might be wary of giving too much credit to the NASL, but there's no need to also deny it what it's due.
Historians always have...actually, the replay of the 1966 Final gets a lot of credit. Admittedly, leagues were already in the works prior to the showing of the Final, but its strong showing on TV pushed the ideas over the edge and helped make them reality. To ignore the NASL's influence on soccer in this country--and, yes, the creation of MLS--is ignoring reality. (Take note: the word was influence...no one is saying that NASL deserves credit for MLS' success. There is a difference.)
Whichever way you look at it, the NASL 23 years after the last game was played, is still talked about positively or negatively. I'd say that is quite an influence.
I'm not ignoring any influence. ALL I know is that one of the biggest knocks on MLS is the fact that NASL was extremely successful and was also one of the biggest flops in US sports history. And because it has been regarded as a fad, MLS gets the same reputation out of the box. Basically, this argument has gone off in a tangent because one of the posters believes it would be a good idea to change the game, like the NASL did, to get more fans. My argument against it was in changing the rules to pander to non-fans, MLS will certainly fail like the NASL did.
The initial post in this thread never suggested anything about the MLS. Therefore, I'm not exactly sure what it is we are trying to justify the MLS cause. Basically, the NASL was a league and it was the 1st major league that brought over the big time stars and got people involved with soccer in the USA. Again the NASL was a good league it was a difficult and very tough league to play in. Many stars who came over were way above the level of Beckham and many others who came had bigger names and maybe didn't do as well. This was how competitive of a league it was.
As far as that goes, the only other rules the NASL implemented were the 35 yard line which to tell you the truth didn't change things all that much especially in small stadiums like in Spartan and the OT/Shootout which was used for the longest time by the MLS. They also had 3 subs which they used which FIFA later and is now using. Therefore, its not like the NASL came up with all these crazy rules.
Well, don't forget the 6 points for a win, one bonus point per goal up to three per match. That led to some crazy results. NASL also had clocks counting down, as advocated by our young friend.
Its not like FIFA hasn't experiemented with the rules. Before I believe if you were even with the defender you were offside. Now if you are even you are onside. Also, you could pass the ball back to the GK in those days which today can not be done. I actually liked the points total for a win.......It encouraged offensive play. The shootout sucked but the sudden death golden goal OT was cool too. The NASL actually did that before FIFA tried it.
i just thing the MLS should bring some of these rules back so they can get more american fans, i mean its is a american league makes no sense to have a league here in the uS that doesnt cater to its people..... like i said before the NBA has its rules you dont see FIBA bsing about it....
The playoff system used is hardly used around the world except maybe in Mexico so its not like the points thing wouldn't be a good thing or for that matter, would change much. Well it will enhance the scoring but it won't change the rules of the game one the pitch anyway.
the European leagues never really have thier true champions at the champions league because the teams that win theier "single table" leagues are not always the same teams that play in the Champions league tournement the next season.... here in america that will never sell if MLS had formatted thier structure like that. ihow can you measure a true Champion like that especiall in a tournement like Champions league which is really more of a open tourney that and earn to win tourney.........back to the subject, yes nASL has put out alot for a american market thats built for sports, for mls to sustain they must stay their course a bit and not do any drastics.
While NASL became a commercial failure, it created a youth soccer culture in America that eventually helped lift American soccer. John Harkes, Tab Ramos and a host of other USMNT players proudly admit that they grew up watching the NASL. Consequently, this generation spawned a second generation of youth soccer players like Landon Donovan, Damarcus Beasley, Clint Dempsey, etc, etc. What's more, now you see the next generation of American teenager's making a splash on the international scene: Freddy Adu, Jozy Altidore, Sal Zizzou, and Danny Szetela to name of few. The NASL's impact on U.S. soccer will continue to be felt for many years to come.