PK Rule question

Discussion in 'Real Salt Lake' started by Taragui, Sep 4, 2007.

  1. Taragui

    Taragui Member+

    Aug 13, 2006
    Northern Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    I light of the Galaxy game and Donovan's missed PK, I have a question:
    Is it just me, or are the written rules for PK's very loosely enforced?

    I didn't get to see the Galaxy game, so I am not speaking specifically of Rimando, but in general. However, it seems to me that goalies are given a lot of leeway in terms of early movement off the line, whether it be jumping forward to cut down the angle or jumping early to one side or the other or a little of both.

    My follow up rules question, which I don't know the answer to, is for the PK taker. Could you run up like you're taking the PK and fake it? You know, make the goalie jump early and bring more attention to it to the ref and fans (esp. if playing at home)? Is that against the rules or just too psychologically damaging for both teams involved?
     
  2. rabble-rabble

    rabble-rabble Member

    Jul 26, 2004
    West Jordan, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd be interested in the answer to this. I would think another advantage the kicker might be looking to gain would be trying to guess which way the goalie is intending to dive.

    At the very least I would think it is bad manners.
     
  3. RedDevil013

    RedDevil013 Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IIRC, the kicker may not stop during his approach to the ball. I know some players have started doing the little delay step thing, and I think they give them that because they let the keeper have a little too. And I also believe that keepers can move side to side as much as they want before the kick. Its the forwards leap that would be illegal. But to be sure I would have to double check my rule book.
     
  4. rabble-rabble

    rabble-rabble Member

    Jul 26, 2004
    West Jordan, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That I am fairly certain of. Under current rules, goalies may move along the goal line side to side, but can not leave the line before the kick. (Maybe about a decade ago it used to be they couldn't even move side to side)
     
  5. TapocoL

    TapocoL Member

    Feb 7, 2007
    Bay Area, CA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Q&A answers the questions you are looking for. And answered this question I was so deeply wondering....

    Apparently, you ARE allowed to feint before kicking the ball. Didn't know it was a decision to feint or not to feint.

    Laws of the Game
    http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/laws_of_the_game_0708_10565.pdf
    (pg 45 -47)

    Q&A
    http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/q&a2006_e_1586.pdf
    (pg 35-40)
     
  6. embratsu

    embratsu Member

    Aug 30, 2007
    Boston
    http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/lawsofthegame.html

    click on the Q&A link and go to page 35. that should answer most questions.

    IIRC, the laws were changed a few years ago to allow the keeper to move side to side as much as he wants, as long as he doesn't come off his line before the ball is struck.

    Typically, if there are infractions on the laws during a the taking of a penalty kick, the referee will order the kick to be retaken only if the infraction has resulted in an advantage for the offender, but if it hasn't, the result of the kick stands.

    For example: If the keeper comes forward off his line and makes the save, then the kick is retaken, since he gained an advantage by moving forward. If he comes off the line and a goal is scored, it is allowed, since ordering the kick to be retaken could possibly result in a missed shot/save , effectively giving the keeper a second chance to prevent a goal.

    I have seen several games as of late where the keeper takes a (not so small) step off his line before the kick is taken. Usually it's allowed as long as the shooter is already in the motion of taking the kick. Things happen so fast, it's hard to judge who moved when, etc.
     
  7. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IIUC, a PK is simply a soccer play that starts with specific circumstances (ball placed on spot, goalie must keep to the line until the ball is struck, all other players outside the box and the arc, etc.). Once the ball is struck, or appears to have been struck if it is faked, I think that the play is on, it is a free ball for anyone to play legally, players flood the box, goalie moves without restriction, etc. So, if a person taking a PK were to fake it, it seems to me that the greatest risk is the goalie attacking the ball, closing the angles, and otherwise making it a very unwise play.

    I think it might not be a bad revision to the rules to make it like thus: Put 3 foot circle around the PK spot. Once the PK taker enters that circle in approaching the ball the goalie can move freely and players may move into the box. That rather forces the PK taker to make a shot, not fake anything, and may give a small increase in advantage to the goalie that could reveal more skill in shot stopping, making it less of a coin flip.
     
  8. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Recently, there has been controversy over this issue. The rules are clear, but officiating and human error isn't. Instant reply in the Brazil vs. Uruguay game in the Copa America tourney that what to PKs was notorious. Brazil's keeper came way off the line to block the last penalty kick. It wasn't even funny. He was almost to the 6yd box by the time the ball was kicked. No call despite crazy confusion on both teams and amongst the fans.

    Rules only play as long as the ref calls them. Lately they have been erring on the side of the GK. Perhaps that will change.
     
  9. RedDevil013

    RedDevil013 Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two points:
    1- The play starts when the ball is kicked, not before. And technically if the player runs up and stops, the play is supposed to be restarted. Slight delays, or feints if you will, are allowed.
    2- It pretty much like your 3 foot rule already with the "not so strict" enforcing of the rules. Typically right before the ball is kicked, the keeper takes a little hop step forward and players tend to cross the line. Rarely if ever is it called.
     
  10. Taragui

    Taragui Member+

    Aug 13, 2006
    Northern Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    So what if a PK taker did some sort of stepover move without touching the ball? It would really mess with the other team and especially the GK. Would that be construed as some sort of yellow card "bad sportsmanship" offense or just "gamesmanship".
     
  11. RedDevil013

    RedDevil013 Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wouldn't be a yellow card unless it was a repeated offense. Say the player did it twice in one game, despite being warned after the first time, then you could give the card. But if it just happened the first time, then it would be an indirect kick for the defensive team at the spot of the foul (their own penalty spot).
     
  12. stucknutah

    stucknutah Member+

    Feb 14, 2002
    In the Office
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Ummm, no. It would not be an indirect free kick for the defensive team. Because the offensive player never touched the ball to put it in play, the ref would blow his whistle, card the offending player, and then allow the PK.

    As a general rule, when the ball is not "in play" you cannot change possession.
     
  13. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's also the two-person PK move, best seen during the 2055 Hall of Fame game when Harkes, Balboa, and Clavijo suited up for DC and Colorado. Colorado got a PK, Balboa stepped up to take it and barely touched it at the same time Clavijo came flying into the box and put a full power shot on net. The keeper had already dived to stop Balboa's "shot" and had no chance to stop Clavijo's kick.

    Perfectly legal as long as Clavijo didn't eneter the box before Balboa touched the ball. Of course, about a year ago I saw this tried in a "real" game but the other team saw it coming and got to the ball before the second kicker. Wasted PK chance.
     
  14. RedDevil013

    RedDevil013 Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    actually no. If the attacking player commits the foul, the result is an indirect kick for the defensive team.

     
  15. stucknutah

    stucknutah Member+

    Feb 14, 2002
    In the Office
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    You and I probably agree and are caught up in semantics...notice in your explanation that the referee allows the kick to be taken, THEN penalizes the offensive team as required.

    Under your first example, it appeared that you were suggesting that the referee would not allow the kick to take place at all. Under the laws of the game, if the kick doesn't take place, the ball is not in play, and there is no way to change possession.
     
  16. RedDevil013

    RedDevil013 Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe you are right.
     
  17. stucknutah

    stucknutah Member+

    Feb 14, 2002
    In the Office
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Coincidentally, so do I...:D
     

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