Yes they beat us, but who was the genious in the suit by the side of the field? Maturranga. Yes we played awful in Copa America, but Venezuela had a group 100 times easier and struggled, and in QF were basically routed by a very weak uruguayan team. Colombia is in bad shape? Yes, but so are Bolivia, Peru, Venezuela, Chile, Ecuador (0 points) and Uruguay. Even Paraguay had a terrible second round. Remember, making it to the second round in Copa America is no big deal, 8 out of 12 qualify, usually the ones from easier groups. Yes we did not make it, but we are not far below our usual competitors. Only Brazil, Argentina, Mexico and to some extent Paraguay were really significantly better than the rest. At this point you can clearly see the top three in command and the rest of the Conmebol is going to struggle for that 1.5 berth. And other than Mexico and USA, Concacaf is awful BTW.
Re: Giovanni Hernandez, News & rumors (r) Man you are so right. We kinda suck as bad as other leagues and our NT is nothing to brag about.
Re: Giovanni Hernandez, News & rumors (r) i already knew you were going to come up with the same excuses.. -Maturana was our coach, yes, but in 2005 he was gone, and then we still weren't able to beat Venezuela.. Venezuela had an easy group, yes and for the last 50 years or so they were consistently the worse team in SA. Why deny they played better than we did? We played the worse team in La Copa America (USA) and we still sucked! what is our excuse this time? As bad as Peru, Bolivia and Ecuador did in La Copa America, none of those teams managed to get a whopping 9 goals scored against in three games.. Overall, Peru and Bolivia played way better than we did, what is the excuse for those facts?? The usual suspects to qualify to the WC are probably a sure thing: Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay.. i wouldn't bet on any of the rest.. and i wouldn't put down any of the other NTs.. because you never know. PS. Costa Rica is not exactly awful.. they have played the same amount of modern world cups we have and have gone just as far.. how do we explain they made it just as far as we have? yes yes. i know the excuses.. Costa Rica are playing against other awful Concacaf teams, it is very easy for them to qualify bla bla bla.. For a country that has about the same amount of people than Antioquia o Valle del Cauca, they have managed to do quite well..
Re: Giovanni Hernandez, News & rumors (r) Peru got 4 points, boliva 2 and ecuador 0.... Peru beat Uruguay that is not exactly a great team right now and tring to find their squad b4 qualifiers, luckly tied Boliva, and strugged to tie venezulea who was playing at home !! How we do at home? didnt we win? I know our team is bad but dude sometimes u talk like if u were that PaulNL kid who all he does is put us down.... so u mean to say that Costa Rica with their superstar Wanchope is better than us? When a Costa Rican coach coachs colombia then i will agree with u Only 2 teams in SA that are better than everyone is Brasil/Argies ... then we are on par with Paraguay, Uruguay... then its everyone else well at least based on talent. Chile might be among these teams too but to say Boliva,Peru, Venezulea are as good as us or better because of 1 ************ copa america.. cant agree with u Ecuador makes it cause of Quito they have nothing else they won 1 point away matchs
Re: Giovanni Hernandez, News & rumors (r) It bugs me that you are so quick to put other NTs down, i am not even talking about the La Copa America only.. As i said before Venezuela beat us at home in the last WC Qualifiers and we failed to beat them after Maturranga left.. so i wouldn't say that our NT is better than they are because we are not. To put things in perspective.. if we are SOOO good and our coaches are SOOO great, how come Pinto and Maturranga were thrown out of Costa Rica's NT? If the Concacaf is sooo easy and the rest of teams are sooo crappy, how come those two guys (Pinto and Maturranga) couldn't last very long there?? Our coach is literally a LEFTOVER from Costa Rica's NT.. if he couldn't succeed there, where the competition is soooo easy, what makes you think he is going to qualify us to the WC?? and on you go again with the excuses about Ecuador qualifying to the last 2 WCs and us staying home.. and what is stopping us from playing in Pasto?? why couldn't we even win all our last WC qualifier home games? because of the altitude? please.. STOP THE EXCUSES!!! so please stop your really annoying habit of putting other NTs down, or i will have to remind of the cold reality.. and please don't delude yourself, we are not even close to Paraguay.. the last few world cups demonstrate otherwise.. did you even watch the 6-0? was that a mistake? I don't think so..
Re: Giovanni Hernandez, News & rumors (r) the 6-0 was Para against Mexico...we lost 5-0, and does Para losing 6-0 against Mexico mean they are so much worse....I don't think so and please stay on topic, I come on here looking for a Giovanny news article and I get the same argument nonsense. Bro start your own thread under, "Argue with YJ777"...cause this should be moderated out of the Hernandez thread.
Re: Giovanni Hernandez, News & rumors (r) Sorry, 5-0. My mistake. Anyway, i am tired of certain people putting other NTs and leagues down. As long as this nonsense doesn't stop, i won't stop posting against it. And if you don't like my posts, don't read them.
Re: Giovanni Hernandez, News & rumors (r) I never said we were much better, only that we are not as bad as you portrait when you posted the 0-1 score courtesy of our genious coach. I would say that Colombia should be able to beat or tie Venezuela 80 or 90% of the time. There's still that 10-20% chance of they winning. I have to conceed that Venezuelan football is a lot better than it was 8 or 10 years ago. We sucked, I am not denying that. But basically everybody else, sucked at some point. Uruguay sucked in the first round, only had one good QF game. Mexico started strong, then sucked against Argentina. Chile sucked against Brasil, Paraguay against Mexico. Argentina was the clear dominator, then sucked when it mattered the most. Brazil basically managed to get to the final while sucking during all the tournament and played one brilliant game. Our defense sucked, no excuses there. Because they were playing weaker teams. Agreed. Tell me who is the fourth strongest team in Concacrap. Yes ticos play nicer than Honduras, Panama or Guatemala, but they do not have another up and comming team that presents major difficulties. Concacrap is two fairly good teams, one decent team (CR) and a bunch of cinderellas. If you have 4 berths to WC and you are the third best team, chances are you are going to qualify very often. In Conmebol you have two super powers, one good team and a bunch (4 or 5) of mostly decent teams. Out of 4.5 berths there's only 1.5 for 4 or 5 candidates. Got the difference? Once you are in WC it depends who is in your group and you can have great teams seeded in groups of death (like Argentina in WC02), or 3 weak teams seeded with the home team, like happened to Ecuador and Costa Rica. Costa Rica managed to be last of the easiest group in las WC. Furthermore, Mexico (one of concacrap superpowers) was seeded as head of the group and managed just enough points (4) to make it to round of sixteen. The US (the other superpower) got their arses whopped and were dead last in their group. Trinidad was dead last in their group too. Mmmmmm, interesting, out of 13 games they played, I would say only in one game Mexico played well, and still they lost against the Argies. Enough said about concacrap. They suck. Giovanni sucks when he faces real competition and he feels the weight of a yellow shirt like it was a 20-ton truck. Period.
Re: Giovanni Hernandez, News & rumors (r) it has nothing to do with not reading your threads, there are rules on the forum, sorry if you don't respect people's rules, in your home you might not have learned manners, but many people have. Stupid arguments don't belong on the Giovanny thread..will someone moderate this or something...I am sick of 8,000,000 word essays on why Colombia sucks...that should be on a thread titled, "Why Colombia sucks and why Concacaf teams and Venezuela are stronger: By YJ5777"
Since the Gio Hernandez thread has become an all out war between Mr.Paisa and YJ i figured a thread on rating the Colombian team would be appropiate. Colombia has talent both in the Colombian League and in Europe but so does Peru,Ecuador and Chile. As for Bolivia and Venezuela they were not dissapointing this last CA but my point is that a team can not be compared to other since there are events in a game that can turn a game on its head. Such as Bobadilla getting sent off against Mexico, or Ayala scoring an own goal. Teams might have a stronger squad or a richer soccer history but the game will always be unpredicable.
Re: Giovanni Hernandez, News & rumors (r) si quieren saver quien es mejor que quien, cojan los resulatods de partidos que han jugado ambas selecciones digamos por ejemplo los ultimos 5-10 y saquen sus concluciones (logicamente un partido en torneo vale mas)
1. Brasil 2. Argentina 3. Colo.Paraguay,Uruguay 4.Chile 5.Ecuador 6.Peru 7. Venezulea 8. Boliva Only big boy here is Brasil everyone else is under them. Argies are good but not impossible, and we always come up big against them so dont really see them as better than brasil and I love the argie team. Colombia has a good league say 4th best in the americas after Arg,Bra and Mexi. The problem with our league is no money, we want foriegn players but have no money to bring them in. The ones who are here suck and are just here to have them. Our Nt is going threw a transition phase our new coach knows colombia has to change something that is broken. Toque toque doesnt work w/o Pibe. We are tring to bring in a new team a new gen of colombain players, its taking a little time but I hope for everyone it works out. Our euro talent is rising but they are all still very young and green. As much As I love to bring all of them the only ones that are ready are L.Perea(just regained form was nasty against real), Mosquera, C.Zapata, R. Zapata, C.Sanchez and W.Renteria. All the other guys like Pino, Guarin, Aguilar,etc arent their yet they arent even starters on their teams they need to stay there and win it b4 they can come play for us. Ven/Boliva are the worst 2 teams in SA, and have been for a while... then winning a point is good news for them... their expectations are really really low as were Colombia believes its 3rd/4th in SA like Uruguay does and have finished 1st,4th in the last 2 Copa Americas. Finishing 9th is awful but if this Copa America was a wake up call it got rid of dead weight like Vargas,Viafara, Calero, IRC, and Yepes who should not have been on the team I think its a good deal.. finish 9th in CA or finish in the top 5 of qualifiers???? I take a WC qualifier over stupid good showing at copa america. Hell maybe we will get lucky and ahve a few teams think less of us and send bad squad cough cough brasil cough (dont bring dinho or kaka)
At the Club level, I think we can compete very well for the third best league and we match up well with Paraguayan, Uruguayan and Chilean teams. At the NT level, we hardly measure up with Paraguay and Uruguay at this point even though recent qualifying history says other wise. Currently, I think we're more at the level of Chile, Ecuador, and Peru. With this said, i'm sure most of us would like to see Colombia inching up to Arg and then to Brasil than inching down towards Chile, Ecuador and Peru. Unfortunately, that's where I think we are now......
Colombia is heading in a downward direction at the moment but as CRZD said it seems as if Pinto and the Fed are actually looking for a new Colombian footbal identity. The question is will we really have what it takes to adapt to a new form of play and make it to South Africa? I really do hope so because if i go to see the world cup in S. Africa i dont want to have to root for anyone but Colombia.
Looking back at the last two qualifiers (2002 and 2006 tourneys), Colombia's problem is giving away too many points at home. For whatever reason we come up with some pretty bad results at home that cripple us. On the road, Colombia was actually one of the better CONMEBOL teams. Not sure why this is the case. It can't be the fans because we have a pretty die-hard, loyal fan base. It could be the coach or the players but what's the point of making all these excuses. As a team, we haven't done enough to feel we are superior to anyone, be it CONCACAF or CONMEBOL. Reading some of your posts, I'd think some of you would rather be in CONCACAF so we could have an easier time getting to the WC. How whack is that? Face it fellas, it's not going to be easy. The national team just needs to suck it up and get the job done. As for ranking, we all know it's Argentina/Brazil and the rest of us. We should be 3rd but we are closer to 7th at the moment.
If I'm being objective and taking into account recent results and taking off the yellow jersey here it is: 1. Brasil - With or without Kaka & Ronaldinho they won the Copa America. Have promising young talent (Pato, Robinho), established stars, and produce results. League always produces top teams and contenders for the Libertadores and Sudamericana. 2. Argentina - Only weakness is Abondanzieri. They are top 5 in the world easy. League always produces top teams and contenders for the Libertadores and Sudamericana. Here's where it always gets tricky. 3. Paraguay - Have been strong for the past 12 years. It can't be an accident. Copa America results were strong except for a brain fart vs Mexico. Top Players: Roque Santa Cruz Cabanas Cardozo 4. Uruguay - National team produces good results. Top Players: Forlan Recoba Carini Diogo Estoyanoff 5. Colombia - And I put my yellow shirt back on. Truth is that we have a lot to prove. We haven't qualified for the last 2 World Cups. We had a horrible showing at Copa America. Our foreign exports are good but not earth shattering (I'm hoping Pino realizes his potential because he has the potential to make an Asprilla-like impact). Let's be honest, we don't have any players that are vital players for any top clubs. Barcelona - None (Brazil has Ronaldinho, Argies have Messi) Real Madrid - None (Brazil has Robinho, Argies have Heinze, Gago, Higuain) Manchester United - None (Argies have Tevez, Brazil - Anderson) Chelsea - None (Peru - Pizzaro, Brazil - Alex & Belletti) Bayern - None (Brazil - Lucio) Stuttgart - None (5 Brazilians) Inter - Cordoba & Rivas but they are not unquestionable starters. I don't feel like writing all the Argies on that team. AC Milan - None (half the team is brazilian) PSG - Yepes but being shipped out. (Argies - Gallardo) Olympique Marseille - None Time for us to realize that Ecuador, & Chile can argue that they should be considered for this spot above us. We haven't done ourselves any favors by not qualifying for the WC and by the poor showing in the Copa America. We need to show results and qualify for 2010 to regain our prestige in the region. 6. Ecuador - Just because they have qualified for the last 2 World Cups. 7. Chile - In a similar position as Colombia. 8. Peru - When they decide to play they are a nice team. 9. Venezuela - Big improvement 10. Bolivia - They are in bad shape.
THE #1 PROBLEM HAS BEEN SELECTION. PERIOD. Every coach that has been selected has BEEN STUBBORN. It's UNBELEIVABLE that we as supporters are within 85%-95% in chosing the BEST TEAM AT THE MOMENT. Our coaches have insisted on guys like G. Hernandez when he's NOT IN form. Or Chiqui's son...yuk! JPA was selected when he wasn't scoring at club level. Rey was benched although he was obviously scoring and making a difference. Local league players were ignored. (Totono, Arzuaga case and point) Mexican league players were ignored. (Chitiva) Int'l players were selected regardless of their minutes (Viveros, GMartinez, Vargas, etc.) and on and on... So select ONLY THE PLAYERS THAT ARE IN FORM. Players that are currently playing top level football. and at averaging :30 minutes + for their teams. I would come up with a selection system like the following: PRIORITY PICKS: "A +" Europe - (Their teams must be Top 10 in their respective table - must be "A + " Level - Ex: Spain, England, Italy, France, Germany - must average :30 minutes plus playing time in their respective position Current A+ picks 'pool': Mosquera, Sanchez, Viafara, IRC, LA Perea, Renteria, Rivas, C. Zapata then "A" Americas - (Their teams must be Top 10 in their respective table - must be "A+" Level - Ex: Argentina, Mexico, Brazil, Colombia )- must average :60 minutes + playing time in their respective position Current A picks 'pool': Falcao, Chitiva, Choronta, Ferreira, E. Valencia, Charria, McNelly, Ospina , Castrillon then "A-" Americas/Europe - (Their teams can be OUTSIDE of Top 10 in their respective table and/or outside of the A+/A leagues- Difference makers/High Skill level) - 'case by case' basis - Pino, Tressor, Charria, Aldo, Freddy M, JPA, G. Hernandez, Guarin ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ TRUST ME, not everyone in this selection I like (Choronta, IRC, GHernadez for example) but these guys are in form and are doing well for their squad. They would be the 'pool' you can comfortably choose from Instead Pinto like his predecessors choose : Rodallega, Vallejo, Arizala, Vargas, Yepes, (5 starters for last Copa America)
-----------Calero------------ Martinez--Orozco--Cordoba--Bedoya ----------Restrepo---------- Viveros--Grisales-Hernandez--Arriaga ---------Rodallega---------- thats my team. line them up on the field and we will make history.
That reason has a name: Francisco Maturranga. El equipo sin el es otro, mucho mas fuerte en casa, consistente como visitante. Esto ya lo habia comentado en otro thread: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=524449&highlight=rueda+maturranga&page=6 Total segunda era Maturranga: 9pts/30 = 30% home games: 4pts/18 pts = 22.22% away games: 5/12 = 41.66% Garcia and Rueda Total WCQ2002 Garcia: 19 pts/36 = 52.77% Home: 10/18 = 55.55% Away: 9/18 = 50% Total WCQ 2006 Rueda 23 pts/42 = 54.76% home:14/21= 66.66% Away:9/21 = 42.85% Total Garcia-Rueda: 42/78 = 53.84% home: 24/39 = 61.54% away: 18/39 = 46.15% It was the coach and the lackluster support from kiyeros. I think that talent-wise we should be fourth or fifth in Conmebol. But the race from fourth to eigth is very even. Concacrap, other than the top three is cannon fodder. Yeah, they will have their days, but basically the 8th Conmebol team is superior to the 4th in Concacrap. Agreed.
hope ur kidding haha wow bad team dude haha who is Arriaga? Martinez? Looks like Colombia 2001/2002 B team w/ IRC being the A team ringer Orozco is the worst of the worse.... they put him in defense and we always went down hill One problem too was that our defense was always Perea-Yepes-IRC-Bedoya if any of these players left we had alot of trouble because they didnt know how to play with other guys like Mendoza, Orozco,etc... we need to have more options and like ahve these guys be able to click because it does us no good to have C. Zapata be great in Italy, Mosquear and Perea in Spain but none have ever played together or understand each other reason IRC- Yepes worked so well because they played together for like 12 years
Congo is too busy preparing to join Real Madrid. we cant count on him to be there for us. Arriaga was the one trick pony that barranquilleros regarded as the second coming of jesus christ.
I agree 100%. The worse part of it, is that we don't have any forwards playing consistently well in Europe, except Renteria. Our goal NT scoring power is nil. Our top scorer in the last 4 NT games is Castrillon! Even Honduras (part of the "Concacrap") had David Suazo being a top scorer in Italy. Out best hope is for Falcao or Arzuaga to do well in Argentina so they can be sold as starters to decent teams in Europe..
Sure.. some of the players in your team already made history in the last La Copa America!! The worse Colombian NT in the last 18 years! LOL