MLS Leagues

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by WestHamUtdFC, Aug 28, 2007.

  1. WestHamUtdFC

    WestHamUtdFC Member

    Aug 15, 2007
    St. Louis
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    i didnt pay much attention to american soccer, since there hasnt been as much....but stl might get a team and its hard to watch west ham from here but is there a league below the mls...that you could make it like EPL where they could transfer to the mls and vice versa? maybe a dumb question but i really like that system and i was just wondering if there was a league under the mls..... thanks
     
  2. ECUNCHATER

    ECUNCHATER Member

    Sep 30, 1999
    No we don't have promotion/relegation. We do have lower divisions, but you don't move up, or down by winning and losing.
     
  3. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hard to watch west ham now without tevez anywhere.
    Yes the lower divisions are part of a league called the USL.
     
  4. BerlinKopKid

    BerlinKopKid New Member

    Jun 9, 2007
    Berlin, Germany
    To reiterate a not so "dumb" question on behalf of the 'Ammer...why?

    Is there some kind of non sporting threshold that you need to reach before being admitted to MLS? Or is it the fear that relegation would obliterate a fanchise?
     
  5. EdsonArantes

    EdsonArantes Member

    Apr 6, 2006
    Barra Brava
    Thats pretty much it. The league is still growing, and as they are trying to attract new owners, the idea that you might not be in the top flight a year from now is not a very attractive one to someone who wishes to buy into a league that, while making great strides, is still a financial risk.

    That and its a foreign concept in American sports, sounds like a simple answer but its true. Kind of like a draft is foreign in Europe, it doesnt mean such a system would be horrible for the sport (Future posters, I'm not trying to start a relegation vs draft argument, just making a point), its just some things are done a certain way and people are used to it.
     
  6. Perugina

    Perugina Member

    Aug 7, 2003
    Grand Rapids MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the American sports scene, it seems to work better and makes more sense financially to move players up and down leagues rather than whole teams.
     
  7. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    The short answer is that NOBODY is going to invest $30 million into an MLS team to see them relegated to a league that gets one game on tv a week on a network that few people get or watch. The talent level in the A League (the highest USL division) is below -- but not drastically so -- MLS but the main issue is money. It's like comparing a mobile home to a mansion.

    Because the US is so big and eventually could support solid clubs in as many as 40 cities (particularly if we add a few more Canadian cities), I had an idea that I think could be workable.

    Two divisions -- MLS League 1 and 2 or something similar -- the idea is not to treat the lower league like a traditional American "minor league." Since we will always have playoffs, you can include the top teams from League 2 in that system. For example three teams go up, three go down. The top 6 in MLS 1 are joined by the top 2 in MLS 2 in the MLS Cup playoffs. That way, there is a real incentive to stay up (more spots available to shoot for) but the teams in MLS 2 start the season with a belief that they have at least a shot to win it all.

    It's not perfect but its a framework that I think is workable to accomodate the number of potential cities and to treat the lower division with some respect (and keep them in the total tv package). It also would make the US Open Cup a lot more interesting.
     
  8. WestHamUtdFC

    WestHamUtdFC Member

    Aug 15, 2007
    St. Louis
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    ya thats very true.... money would be an issue especially with how we love to move teams and great stuff like that....... but in the future i think that is a good idea especially with the size of the country... i like it better than the current divisions and playoff system.... but the usl....how many teams are in that and is it good soccer?

    hey and west ham isnt doing half bad in its first three games....we have noble and ashton is back(just about)!
     
  9. BerlinKopKid

    BerlinKopKid New Member

    Jun 9, 2007
    Berlin, Germany
    In this case, why don't you seperate MLS (in the future after major expansion) into two seperate leagues, West and East, say, 16 teams each (1 home, one away, 30 games), and the two champions play off in one almighty final? I know it turns the MLS into a kind of two league Champions League but its not impossible to imagine, right?

    Only downside...New York vs Los Angeles will always sound like a game I wanna see. (on names alone)
     
  10. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    Possible. Of course, you lose that bottom of the table battle that I think most promotion/relegation supporters are looking for. Also, I don't think FIFA would go for two equal top leagues in one country. They may not like my idea either, but it seems like they would have a more favorable opinion of one top flight with 20 teams.
     
  11. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    Why do people ask questions they know are "dumb"?
     
  12. mcontento

    mcontento Member

    Jun 26, 2000
    Catalina Wine Mixer
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's actually how MLB used to do it, seperate regular seasons and then the American League champ vs. National League champ, but they found that they can make more money by having a few games against the other league each year so they have modified the schedule a bit to foster rivalries (some major metropolitan areas; NY, Chicago, DC-Baltimore, SF-Oakland, LA-Anaheim have teams in each league).

    So the concept isn't foreign to American sports leagues, but I think that we'd more likely see something like the NFL set up where the league is set up into two Conferences with sub divisions in the conferences based on Geography or traditional rivalries (e.g. NFC East has Dallas with NY, Philadelphia and Washington), and by the time MLS needs to do this there may be a few rivalries that are not just geographically based.

    In this set up you'd likely see, given a 30 team league, three divisions per conference of 5 teams. Each team plays its own division 4 times (HHAA) for 16 games, then plays all other teams in its conference once (H or A) for 10 games and then a home and home vs one of the three divisions in the other conference on a rotating basis (10 games) for a total of 36 games.

    This may seem crazy to you, but it would work here.
     
  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In America, businesses strive, usually successfully, to socialize losses and privatize gains.
     
  14. skydaddy8

    skydaddy8 New Member

    Aug 5, 2007
    norman,ok
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    This is roughly the Soccer pyramid in the USA.This maybe inaccurate at some spots, but this is the basic pyramid of us soccer

    Professional

    1.Major League Soccer(MLS) 14 teams
    2.United Soccer Leagues 1st divison(USL1)12 teams
    3.United Soccer Leagues 2nd Division(USL2)10 teams
    4.United soccer leagues Premier Development League(PDL)63 teams
    4.National premier Soccer League(NPSL)26 teams
    4.Pacific coast soccer League(PCSL)13 teams
    Non-professional
    5.United States Adult Soccer Association(USASA)
    6. NCAA div 1 soccer
    7. NCAA div 2 soccer
    8.NCAA div 3 soccer
    9.NAIA Soccer

     
  15. WestHamUtdFC

    WestHamUtdFC Member

    Aug 15, 2007
    St. Louis
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    i dont know what the talent type for the usl1 or usl2 is but if they were part of the mls as sub groups where the top three and would go up or down i think that would help soccer....... because that just allows for more teams to be watched and if they have a chance at getting to a bigges stage like the mls then that would attract maybe younger internationals or just more intermediate players..... i think having the three or two groups would really help with american soccer..
     
  16. skydaddy8

    skydaddy8 New Member

    Aug 5, 2007
    norman,ok
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    i do agree it would be interesting, But the MLS is structured US style. Conferences, playoffs , no promotion relegation. I actually believe no promotion/relegation helps a league stabilize and create a fair playing field throughout the league. We dont want a big four like the EPL. Also the mls doesnt want to lose investors because they had a bad year. USL is actually a pretty good professional league and generates good talent. It is sort of a feeder league to the MLS. also a lot of MLS players go play in the USL if they dont recieve much playing time or enough money.a difference in the MLS and USL is that it cost more money to own a MLS team then a USL, which is why most owners are happy with there small profitable USL1 teams.
     
  17. WestHamUtdFC

    WestHamUtdFC Member

    Aug 15, 2007
    St. Louis
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    i agree i know im ahead of myself as are many haha..... but in the future im hoping less than ten years, when soccer here is more stable, i think the relegation table system is much better and more exciting.... i think they should make a rule about changing cities....b/c it gets ridiculous here sometimes...
     
  18. scheck

    scheck Member

    Mar 13, 2007
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think they need to fill out the top division with solid markets, solid ownership, and let the league stabilize and generate profit, better tv deals, bring more talent etc.

    Until then, I don't think it's in the league's interest to be even thinking about pro-rel.

    It could work if after MLS is highly successful and more investors want to buy teams. It would just take some negotiation with USL teams, and basically the league would have to control profit sharing between the lower league, so that losses weren't too drastic. I can see MLS doing the same business model (20k SSS etc) with the USL teams if a merger was done.
     

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