Che LaVolpe Speaks....

Discussion in 'Mexico National Team' started by OG Junglist, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. Estevo

    Estevo Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    The I to the E!
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Very true.
     
  2. Mosco

    Mosco Member+

    Dec 1, 2004
    Sun Valley, CA


    And with Vela, Gio, Galindo, Guadardo now aboard in europe our or Hugos attack will only get better face la volpe you screwed yourself! Also this El Cabrito you just owned alot of la volpe sack lovers I agree!
     
  3. frescoxl

    frescoxl New Member

    Jun 12, 2007
    Saint Louis
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Lavolpe did NOT create any ********ing players my goodness. This is the MEXICAN NATIONAL TEAM not a club team. The players ARE THERE ALREADY he did NOT make them.

    With our without Lavolpe there will always be Guardado, Pardo, Osorio, Salcido etc. You think because of Lavolpe that these players are what they are right now??? Get the ******** out of here you che cock sucking Arg.......

    Guardado would of still kicked ass in Atlas and showed how good he was even if Lavolpe wouldnt of called him.
     
  4. Sakuragi

    Sakuragi Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    All the idiot LaTorpistas have just been owned. Repped.
     
  5. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Member+

    Aug 21, 2003
    MEX2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Bullshitter Speaks....

    [1] OCHOA Guillermo (Arq.)
    [5] CASTRO Israel (-74')
    [2] MAGALLÓN Jonny
    [4] MÁRQUEZ Rafael
    [3] PINTO Fausto
    [20] ARCE Fernando
    [8] CORREA Jaime
    [6] TORRADO Gerardo
    [11] MORALES Ramón (-78')
    [12] CACHO Juan Carlos (-69')
    [21] CASTILLO Nery

    None of our starting eleven are "Lavolpe-made."

    Arce got 3 caps, and was gone. The rest? Don't embarass yourself.
    Just your misinformed opinion.

    It's cool, though.

    I don't expect everyone to get over their Mexican insecurities and character deficiencies so easily.

    Not satisfied?

    Substitutes:

    [1] SÁNCHEZ Oswaldo (Arq.)
    [22] RODRÍGUEZ Francisco
    [7] MEDINA Alberto
    [14] PINEDA Gonzalo
    [15] CASTRO José Antonio (+74')
    [10] BLANCO Cuauhtémoc
    [19] BRAVO Omar (+69')
    [16] LOZANO Jaime (+78')
    [17] BAUTISTA Adolfo
    [18] GUARDADO Andrés

    Take a peak at that bench.

    Never in a million years would a Mexican and/or a Lavolpista dream of it.

    The Pachuca guys are 3, Nery makes 4 (so you don't just "add" a couple of players, you overhaul the team) and his "consentidos"... ????

    Um.

    Israel Castro outperformed on the right.

    Pineda? Hardly played.

    Who else?

    Lozano?

    Cuauhtemoc?

    Bench.

    Once again, people like to post random bullshit.

    But at least it's not as bad as talk-radio like on ESPN Deportes or Radio Univision.

    You guys are living in a fantasy world where everything foreign is better, and everything Argentine is heavenly.

    Look back at Peru 2004, Athens 2004, Germany 2005 and USA 2005.

    We played like absolute horseshit.

    I'll give you 5 games that you can go back and watch. In chronological order:

    Uruguay (Peru 2004), Brasil (Peru 2004), Greece (Germany 2005), Japan (Germany 2005) and South Africa (USA 2005).

    Tell me that wasn't some of the worst ball of our generation.

    "The real test is the World Cup."

    Okay, Lavolpe.

    Angola.

    Portugal.

    Lavolpe was the one making the decision to call whoever he did, and snub whoever he did.

    You don't just sprinkle some pixiedust and the national team is ready to go.

    Conversely, you don't just "add Nery and the Pachuca guys" and it's a Lavolpe-ready national team. That motherfucker was all about consentido.

    Give Hugo Sanchez some real goddamn credit, or shut up.

    I mean, you could at least wait until Lavolpe returns to Mexican club competition before you start sucking him off again.
     
  6. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Member+

    Aug 21, 2003
    MEX2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    [970[90[90[9[90Speaks....

    Es como decir "le ganamos al pentacampeon mundial."

    No mames.

    Grecia en 2004 fue bastante diferente a Grecia en 2005.

    Ni calificaron al mundial.

    "Si, pero fue el ganador del Euro 2004."

    Como se acomodan.
     
  7. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    Oswaldo was the starting GK in the Meza era. He had his chance but the fact is that Oscar Perez was a monster at that time and was better than Oswaldo.

    And I agree with the other guy, now every player that comes up is given to the NT coach the credit for his development? So if Hugo brings Giovanni and Carlos Vela to the team, then he is the one who debuted him? Or the Pachuca guys? Now Hugo made those players? What a BS argument. As I said before the NT isn't there to develop players. Lavolpe had 4 years on the team, anybody that came up in their club during those time, had to be called and even though he still screwed some players because they didn't "fit".
     
  8. gvfatlas

    gvfatlas Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    GDL
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I never said that when a coach calls a player to the NT he has "made" that player. I just said that he brought those players to the NT and was able to put together a small team. Go back and read my post and you will never see that I said he "made" them.

    Let me ask you this then: why does everyone give Hugo credit for Kikin(back when Kikin was at Pumas and he was kinda good) when Kikin debuted with La Piedad????

    Same thing with the Pachuca players who are now playing in the NT and Memo Ochoa, etc...

    Now, that is BS like HugoSanchez says.
     
  9. gvfatlas

    gvfatlas Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    GDL
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Bullshitter Speaks....

    Once again Huguito, I never said that Lavolpe "made" these players. A coach can't "make" a player. Especially at the NT level, but you can call up players and sort of shape them to your ideology in the field. I can understand how at club level a coach debuts a player and influences him in his development as a player. In this case Lavolpe "made" Marquez even though Efrain Flores debuted him and there ain't a thing you can do about that mayne.

    You seem to always bring back the games where Lavolpe's team played awful, but just like you mention those 5 games where we played like shyt I'll give you 5 games where the team played effective and attractive futbol.

    Costa Rica(WCQ-away), USA(WCQ-Azteca), Brazil(Confed Cup-2005), Iran(WC2006)-not so much the 1st half, Arg(WC2006).

    And if you want to mention some of the worst ball of our decade, you don't have to look very far to find it: Gold Cup 2007, except for the final game.

    I won't indulge in more tirades with you, I'll just go back to posting random BS and making up fantasies about foreigners and Argies. After all, I don't know shyt about futbol.
     
  10. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Member+

    Aug 21, 2003
    MEX2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Johnny, Remember Me.

    What's with the Huguito shit?

    Anyway, I don't know why CONCACAF Qualifying is now looked at as a certifiable measure.

    I scoff at CONCACAF.

    You're talking 2 1/2 "real" games.

    In 4 years.

    I guess we have different criteria for production.
    Compare Gold Cups (Away) and we have ourselves quite the doozy, don't we?

    Oh, but 2005 doesn't count.
    You said it.
     
  11. gvfatlas

    gvfatlas Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    GDL
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Johnny, Remember Me.

    I guess we'll have to wait until Hugo starts the WCQ and we'll see if you scoff at it. Very convenient to scoff at it when the team played good.

    I never said Gold Cup 2005 didn't count, if you go back and read my previous posts I mention how that was a failure. I don't know what doozy is, so you might have to explain that word since I barely finished kindergarden.
     
  12. Perndog2006

    Perndog2006 Member+

    Jul 24, 2006
    Nery Nut Ryder
    Club:
    CF Rayados de Monterrey
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Johnny, Remember Me.

    ya deja a ese huguito en paz


    esque para ellos gold cup 2003 doesnt count nor confed cup...

    as a matter of fact..

    to the so called "bocones" having won something doesnt count

    but having won nothing and coming in third in copa america and second in the gold cup does count for alot of improvement I guess :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  13. gvfatlas

    gvfatlas Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    GDL
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Johnny, Remember Me.

    Tienes razon, ya mejor no voy a decir nada.
     
  14. Perndog2006

    Perndog2006 Member+

    Jul 24, 2006
    Nery Nut Ryder
    Club:
    CF Rayados de Monterrey
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Johnny, Remember Me.

    los bocones are the mexican version of the gringo spazzos


    bocones = spazzos
     
  15. gvfatlas

    gvfatlas Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    GDL
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Johnny, Remember Me.

    Mejor no digas nada, porque son un chingo.:D

    Ademas no ves que todos los que estan jugando en la seleccion ahorita los hizo Hugo??:rolleyes:
     
  16. Perndog2006

    Perndog2006 Member+

    Jul 24, 2006
    Nery Nut Ryder
    Club:
    CF Rayados de Monterrey
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Johnny, Remember Me.

    jajaja

    si wey por eso tambien te digo que all of this falls on deaf ears so ya ni modo...


    the historians will prove us right some day I guess
     
  17. Mosco

    Mosco Member+

    Dec 1, 2004
    Sun Valley, CA
    Re: Johnny, Remember Me.




    Go back and hide under La volpes sack you got owned again I swear if this was prison you would be swollen like a mutha!
     
  18. 1stYearCoach

    1stYearCoach Member+

    Nov 30, 2006
    Bay Area, CA
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Man this thing got really heated. Makes for a good read when your away.

    Anyway though, to not give credit for LaVolpe credit for winning one of his gold cups is just pure hate. It doesn't matter where he won, the fact is his team came out and won it. Hugo's team was awful for all of the tourney and had luck on his side to make the finals. The best game played was a loss to the US but again, luck plays a part in the games as well. In futbol, you need a little luck to advance and win tournaments. In LaVolpe's Copa America, the luck ran out when in the quarterfinals Mexico drew Brazil. I can admit even though I don't like Hugo that his team played excellent in the matches against Brazil and Ecuador. The Chile game was embarrassing because we just kind of hung out in that game. The team had some luck on it's side for the quarterfinals when a couple of minutes in the game there was and expulsion. I give credit to Hugo's team for taking advantage of this. For the Semi's we drew Argentina who was red hot. Luck of the draw plays a part in a lot of the issues everyone is discussing. As much as it pains me to give Hugo credit I do give it to him where it is due. But I think it's very unreasonable not to give LaVolpe any credit. The players he called already had talent, he just gave them a world stage to perform. Hugo has called some players with talent too. Nery has gotten a raise, now will his system give the other players a chance to advance their careers as well?
     
  19. Deleted USer

    Deleted USer Member+

    Jan 7, 2001

    Perhaps Lavolpe is right. Perhaps small minded clubs have that sort of mentality. HOWEVER, history has shown that Lavolpe cant handle big clubs (America, Guadalajara, Boca Jrs.)

    ------------------------------------------

    If he is going to criticize Hugo, criticize the results, the substitutions, tactics implemented, or roster. But to criticize an ideology (formation) of which is better seems asinine? 5-3-2, 4-4-2, 4-3-3? How stupid is he?

    History has shown that teams that are well disciplined in the back are the ones that win championships. They defend well and furthermore, recuperate the ball which allows their offense more time to attack.

    I find it moronic on his part to use the word defend and stay back as if it is a bad thing. For a guy that has been in the business 40 odd years, defending, counterattacking (not bunkering), and attacking all go hand in hand. In essence, that is football.

    We are back at square one with Lavolpe and his importation of the argie (Bilardo/Menotti) wars.

    Lavolpe has no room to talk. Lavolpe opted to play 45 minutes with 9 guys behind the ball against Costa Rica (in CR), the US (in DF), and also played more than 70 minutes against Argentina defending a 1-0 goal lead.







    Im sure having a thumbs up from Beckenbauer is something that can be put on a resume :rolleyes:
     
  20. El Cabrito

    El Cabrito Member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Ca
    For the sake of argument lets try to quantify the tournaments in order to better gauge the two coaches and their accomplishments.


    IMO

    for Mexico,

    GC in Mexico < GC in US
    Olipypics = GC in US (I kind of want to rate the Olympics higher just because there are representative from all over the world, but seeing as it is mostly a U23 tournament I cant rank i higher than a Senior tournament).
    Copa America > GC or Olympics
    Copa America = Confeds Cup
    WC > All



    Using this I will assign a Numeric value which will be then multiplied by the number of points achieved in a tournament.


    GC in Mexico = * .2
    GC in US = *.3
    Olympics = *.3
    Copa America = *.5
    Confed Cup = *.5
    World Cup =*.7

    Hugo Sanchez --------------------Vs ------------------Ricardo Lavolpe

    GC IN Mexico = N/A---------------Vs ------------------ 13 Pts *.2 = 2.6

    GC in US = 12 Pts * .3 = 3.6 Vs----------------- 6 Pts * .3 = 1.8

    Olympics = N/A -------------------VS ------------------- 4 Pts *.3 = 1.2

    Confeds Cup = N/A ---------------VS -------------------- 8 pts *.5 = 4

    Copa America = 13 *5 = 6.5 VS ------------------ 7 Pts * .5 = 3.5

    World Cup = N/A--------------------VS ------------------- 4 Pts * .8 = 3.2

    Average Rating 10.1 --------VS -------------------- 2.7

    So there you have it... according to El Cabrito's Rating... Hugo >>> LaVolpe

    Admittedly its a small sample size, but even if you just take La Volpe's two best tournaments, Hugo wins easily.


    Like I mentioned before, I don't see why the LaVolpistas are hating on Hugo when he clearly out preformed LaVolpe in the two tournaments that he has played that were under the same circumstances. LaVolpe has one title out of 6 tournaments which he participated in, and that one title was the one which he was expected to win. Props to him for getting the title, but come on one weak title does not excuse him from the mediocrity which was the rest of his tenure. Not to mention his other placement in a tournament came from the Confeds Cup ticket that he won from having the Gold Cup at Home.
     
  21. MesQueUnClub

    MesQueUnClub New Member

    Jul 23, 2006
    Re: Johnny, Remember Me.

    Dude add something to the discussion or dont post. Are you 12?
     
  22. erdons

    erdons Member

    May 1, 2005
    Los Angeles, CA
    hahahah, mosco you deserve some rep.
     
  23. Perndog2006

    Perndog2006 Member+

    Jul 24, 2006
    Nery Nut Ryder
    Club:
    CF Rayados de Monterrey
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico

    dood... in the end results matter. it doesnt matter how you rationalize it. which is what this whole post of yours is.

    results are: Lavolpe: won the gold cup and the right to participate in the confed cup

    Hugo sanchez: Nothing

    Simple as that.
     
  24. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    And results is that after that Lavolpe didn't win a single game outside of the 1st round in any official competition. If you are satisfied after 4 years of a proceso with just a gold cup played in Azteca against Brazil's olympic team (which did produce some stars but people are apparently forgetting that at the time, it was the brazilian olympic team preparing for the olympic qualifiers, which they failed to qualify to) then that's you.

    Regardless of what hugo did or does, Lavolpe is still garbage.
     
  25. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    He was the NT coach for 4 years. Of course whoever was worth it had to be called by him. He put together a team after 4 years that won a GC in the 1st year and didn't do squat after that. The clubs are where players develop and Lavolpe didn't set the base, they players earn themselves into the team just as the Pachuca players did with Hugo. The job of the NT coach is to make a great team and get results which Lavolpe didn't do.

    Hugo didn't make the Kikin but he gave him the chance to play. He was a sub in La Piedad, who didn't do squat. In UNAM and Cruz Azul he flourished and then did well in the Tri before his Benfica fiasco. Hugo gave him his big chance, that's it
     

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