Justice done?

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by JasonMa, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A press release was just sent out stating that the MLS Disciplinary Committee has overruled the game official (Who only gave Ballouchy a yellow) and suspended Ballouchy for 2 games for his hit on Victorine, plus fined him $1000.

    (Just to be clear, I'm not denying Ballouchy deserves a suspension, and 2 games is probably fair, its just that I've said all season that the disciplinary committee overruling the on-field refs is a slippery slope that MLS shouldn't be going down)
     
  2. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, justice was done. I don't think it's a slippery slope. Once the ball is away, the CR's focus is split between the player kicking the ball up field and the location where the ball will land. I absolutely think that reviewing such plays is necessary for the saftey of the players and the game.

    They didn't overrule is on-field decision. They applied additional discipline based on a review of the play.
     
  3. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly I thought it was like the Herron-Heaps situation, and thought that with that presedence set, that Ballouchy was gonna get a 6 game like Herron. Not saying that would have been fair to Ballouchy, but that's how I thought it'd play out.
     
  4. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except in the Herron-Heaps incident, none of the 4 officials saw it, right? In this case the official saw it and decided it merited a yellow card.

    I think that if the league wants to start doing this, then they need to review every incident in every game and hand out yellow/red cards and fines as appropriate AND recind yellow/red cards that were handed out in error. Otherwise its a double standard and at some point some teams are going to feel like the league is screwing them (Again, not that I think that about this particular incident).
     
  5. Redfoot

    Redfoot New Member

    Dec 19, 2002
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree, I think it's a slippery slope to start down and someone is going to be pissed off or feel screwed by it at some point.
     
  6. Lucid

    Lucid Member

    May 17, 1999
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Umm.... justice? What about the refs that completely eff'd up the game? Yeah, the league probably had a few words with them, but no way are they going to make that punishment public. Unless I hear some punishment for the reffing crew who let the Rapids get out of control which put every player on the field in danger (as Victorine found out), justice wasn't served.
     
  7. Dent McSkimming

    Dent McSkimming New Member

    Jun 28, 2007
    For violent conduct, I think the league has the right to step in. Somebody has to protect the players.

    Plus, I think it's debatable that Weyland truly saw what happened. It's entirely possible that he looked away before Ballouchy connected with the elbow but saw Ballouchy charging in. When he looked back, he may have thought that Ballouchy just gave an unnecessary shoulder charge.
     
  8. KCBearcat

    KCBearcat New Member

    Nov 16, 2004
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suppose that's possible but from one angle on a replay, it appeared that Weyland was looking right at the play. He had the whistle in his mouth and was signaling the end of the half when it happened. I think he just blew the call and the game.
     
  9. Lucid

    Lucid Member

    May 17, 1999
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Even if he didn't see it live, one of the four refs had to have seen the replay on the jumbotron. Now I don't want to see refs using the jumbotron to determine goals, spots, offsides, etc... but in the case of a player being wreckless on the field with intent to injure, that player needs to be sent off, even if the ref doesn't see it till 20 minutes afterwards. No way do you see that play and think "Darn, wish I would have seen that before, I would have sent him off if so." One of the four officials had to have seen the replay. Especially since Ballouchy was given a yellow after the elbow, that was a perfect time to say "Your day is done". Weyland did a ************ job of protecting the players, and props to the league for recognizing that.
     
  10. Lucid

    Lucid Member

    May 17, 1999
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Found this gem on the Colorado board

    The air must be really thin up there.
     
  11. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm still pissed Condoul didn't get a yellow for that encounter.
     
  12. KCBearcat

    KCBearcat New Member

    Nov 16, 2004
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would have involved Weyland getting up off his knees from blowing the game... *shrugs*
     
  13. KCFutbol

    KCFutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 14, 2001
    Overland Park, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless I missed some, it didn't appear any of the other poster shared this "unique" perspective. Most seemed to agree with the suspension and a number thought he was lucky to get off with only two games.

    I don't know how you can look at the replay and not think he should face a stiff fine and lengthy suspension.
     
  14. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. Lucid

    Lucid Member

    May 17, 1999
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yeah, to their credit, everyone agreed with the punishments over there, including the person I quoted. They just thought Burciaga should have been suspended as well, which is ridiculous.
     
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually by "They" you mean one poster.
     
  17. SombraAla

    SombraAla Member+

    Apr 2, 2006
    Waldo (Kansas City)
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, but a poster with multi-personality disorder.
     
  18. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    MLS has the DUTY to do this in addition to the right.

    OK, refs will miss things from time to time. That's supposed to be covered by the 3 other refs, no? Regardless, MLS should be on top of whatever is missed. Ballouchy lined him up, hit him square, and any defending of it on any level is inexcusable. Even in Aussie Rules that is a tribunal and a multi-game suspension...and that's a collision sport.

    Kuhnscoot mentioned 6 games as following precident. I agree. 2 games was pretty light, maybe not with the $1000 fine as well (whatever he makes), but certainly a light suspension.

    If MLS is serious about encouraging what most find to be entertaining soccer, keeping stars and the skilled safe, and eliminating negative ball, this seemed the perfect opportunity to come down a little harder.


    Another point to chew on: One universal inequity with suspensions in all sports is that the teams next up on the schedule benefit directly. If it's a multi-game suspension for violent conduct or the like, I'd like to see it served against the team who suffered the conduct. Where not possible (purchases, retirements, etc.) the team pays a steep fine or holds a percentage of salary until the suspension is served. By chance DAL and HOU get the benefit of Ballouchy's absence instead of an East for (good for KC), but still both teams are are top of the table currently and probably don't need the help.

    -WC
     
  19. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I gotta retrack the 6 game. I looked around last night and found out it was a 4 game for Herron.
     
  20. SombraAla

    SombraAla Member+

    Apr 2, 2006
    Waldo (Kansas City)
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They didn't 'technically' overrule Weyland. It's very much the same as the Herron-Heaps incident, in my mind at least, except that in this case the committe decided that instead of not seeing the incident at all, Weyland simple could not see the incident well enough.

    Since they have a very strict criteria for when they can review these types of incidents, I don't think that it's that much of a slippery slope either.

    I disagree... they only need to deal with situations where players are injured/put in danger/etc (as far as giving out yellow/red cards). For instance, it would make no sense for the comittee to review the yellow card for Coundoul since this card is more about gameplay rather than safety.

    I also think that pardoning yellow/red cards is not correct as well. It would put refs in a position where they would have to 'defend' their cards which would make them too hesitant to give them out in the first place. Sometimes a yellow or red might be given out because the ref sees something that can't be seen by a camera... or because it's the 'last straw' or whatnot.
     
  21. Detlef

    Detlef Member

    Jul 20, 2001
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was watching the game on Telefutura and when Weyland's name flashed on the screen I figured it'd be 3 points for Toronto with lots of chippy play, based on his dismal performance in your game vs. Colorado. Fortunately Mairuffo was the referee.

    I just saw the replay of the elbow and frankly Weyland should be sacked by MLS.
     
  22. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't an official already having to 'defend' why they only gave a foul or a yellow card on something the committee feels is a red card foul? Won't that make it more liekly that they will go to the red so they don't have to be overrules by the Committee in the future? I'd think that making red cards more likely is more damaging to the game than making them less likely.

    To me, if you're going to go through the game and say essentially "Foul A wasn't a yellow card offense, it was red, Foul B should have been red and there was no card given" then there's no reason you shouldn't also say "Foul C was given a red, it was only a yellow, Foul D was given a yellow but there was no need for a card".
     
  23. PezJunkie

    PezJunkie Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Independence, MO
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The MLS Referee Policy says:
    "When a referee has an unacceptable performance at any level, their assignment status at that level is reviewed. When it occurs in MLS, the referee is assigned to a lower professional level until US Soccer staff is assured that the referee is ready to be rotated back into the assignment schedule at the Division 1 Professional Level (MLS)."​

    (The last ~4 paragraphs on the page talk about what is involved in the review process.)
     
  24. the_cyclones

    the_cyclones New Member

    Jul 26, 2004
    The Cauldron
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seems to me you are intentionally being obtuse.
    I don't quite know why you are arguing this.
    It's very obvious that the suspension/fine was given out based on the violent nature of the play. Granted, the referee totally lost control of the game, but that would have to be addressed in a different way. And seems to have been with his apparant removal from the the Toronto game this weekend.

    As for reviewing games/plays/fouls - they damn well better be else those referees won't be getting any better. If they are professionals then they need to be able to take criticism and improve their performance, but I dont' see them giving out reds more often just because of this. Every league reviews thier referees.

    But hey, you go live in your bubble of slippery slopiness...
     
  25. wadejackson1

    wadejackson1 Member

    Mar 11, 2001
    Curt was also fined $1,000 for his post game comments.

    Nick was fined $250 (IIRC).

    Looks like the collection jar needs to be filled.
     

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