Most football games dont end 7-0 many soccer games do end 1-0. Converting a 15 yard penalty into a touchdown is more difficult than scoring a PK.
And if it's a problem for all the referees then what? Who's left after they're all replaced? People have just said "the referees should just enforce the rules" as some kind of answer to the problem of diving. How many years of this not working will it take for people to understand that what is being asked of the referee is too much? The game moves too fast and it's not physically possible for the referee to always be in perfect position. More often than not, video replay is the only way to be certain. A solution without video replay is no solution.
You misunderstood my post. I was indicting the leagues for not fixing the problem. The referee example was simply one possible situation that I said the leagues may need to address. But I was laying it at the feet of the leagues not the referees.
Bullshit! Diving is commong in EPL as it is in La Liga and Serie A or whatever league. Sure it doesn't happen that much but it's still common as I always see someone diving.
and I do not believe that Americans have an issue with low scoring sports. Afterall, both Baseball and Hockey are fairly low scoring. Let my try putting it this way. Perhaps American's view things such as diving to get a call or faking an injury as "unmanly". Entering the realm of generalities here... You guys watch those "this is ouuuuurrrr country" commecicals during the NFL season from Chevy? What kind of men did those commercials depict? Down to earth, hard working, honest, simple. How would that kind of guy view someone like Chrisitiano Ronaldo in the world cup? and what would he think of a sport that so highly rates Ronaldo?
It's clear that in certain countries and soccer cultures, diving is more common and more acceptable. In fact, it is even considered a part of "tactics" for many (South American teams, for example), especially against more "honorable" countries like England who don't dive as often and tend to play a more physical brand of soccer. I've even heard Latinos refer to England as a "tactically naive" country because they aren't willing to play the diving game (not only against the opponent, but the referee as well). I would lump the USA in with England in their approach to diving. My conclusion to root out diving is to suspend players based on video evidence. Some dives are clear. They are not always punished on the field. Some dives result in goals (PK's) which in my opinion is Serious Foul Play, no different than slapping the ball with your hand into the goal or stopping a shot on goal with your hand as a field player. When definitive video evidence exists (as is the case with Violent Conduct), national federations and FIFA should begin punishing diving with match suspensions. It won't necessarily eliminate diving (much like it hasn't eliminated violent conduct) but I do believe it will curb the practice once players begin receiving match bans for diving.
I havent watched much MLB or NBA or NHL for a long time but in my experience diving has been relatively common in the NBA for decades. true it seems to be excessively so nowadays but this is nothing new and has nothing to do with "foreigners", but with organizing authorities who have done nothing about it. until the NBA, and FIFA, take a stand, and referees start enforcing the rules as they're written, it will go on. It's such a competitive environment, to believe players won't use what they can to gain an advantage is naive in the extreme. it happens in all competitive sports, from World Cup Soccer and the NBA playoffs to College Sailing and Little League baseball. you dont have to be a pro to know this and to have experienced it. they player's job is to be as competitive as possible. the organizer's job is to keep it fair.
An NFL "flop" in the end zone results in the ball being placed at the one-yard line and an automatic first down. Not many referees will give a shooter four attempts at a PK. Your post also assumes that all flops result in PKs, which is far from true.
Blaming the flopping in the NBA on the "influx of European players" is the biggest load of horse dumplings I've ever read. Making a charge seem worse than it was to draw a foul has been a part of basketball at all levels for many years before Europeans ever made their mark in pro basketball. Just another way for American media types to find yet another excuse to bash... "They never score in soccer." 9-6 (Five field goals), Colts vs. Ravens, NFL Playoffs 2006 "It's boring to sit through." Five-hour, 16-inning, 2-1 MLB game with the winning run walked in "The flopping and thuggery in soccer turns me away." NBA: see Playoffs
Both your points are well-made. The cultural differences are striking and very real. I would also add that there is an element of "chippiness" in certain footballing cultures (Argentine, Sub-Saharan African, and some Eastern European are my examples personally experienced) that rankles American players schooled in the western European footballing tradition. Chippiness here is defined as late contact, fouls to the back of legs, etc. It really used to p__ me off, but I also came to understand that it was considered a legitimate part of the "mental game" in those cultures, designed to break an opponent's concentration (if not their ankle). IMHO, the two seem related. Given the attendant and increased risk of injury from those "chippy" fouls, as well as an appreciation by the aforementioned cultures for individual creativity and flair, it's not surprising that a "quality dive" could come to be as equally appreciated by players and fans of these cultures as is a hard, open-field tackle by a Yank, Brit, German, etc., or anyone who buys into the "honorable" tradition typically espoused by Western Europeans. This is not absolutely not an endorsement of either diving or chippy play, it's just my observations over a forty year period of playing and loving the sport. I personally believe that diving, like cheap shots, must be driven from the sport; not in order to capture an American market, but for the sake of preserving the beauty and integrity of the game. I like your idea of match suspensions, and would add that, should a match have been determined to turn as a result of diving, the offending player should receive a minimum 10 match, unpaid suspension from all competition.
My point had nothing to do with soccer being looked at as a boring low scoring game. My point was there is more scoring in football so a TD via a bad penalty call can be made up for were as being 1-0 in soccer can be the end result.
For every "flop" ive seen in football there was some sort of contact maybe not much but still there. I ve seen many dives in soccer where theres no contact the guy just falls down.
Totally agree, unfortunately (and inexplicably) that mafioso/idiot Sepp Blatter is convinced that a referee's ruling on the field must be final... I mean, he has used those very words, making it sound like it would somehow undermine a ref's authority if they were to punish cheaters! Meanwhile Blatter has declared that overzealous celebration of goals is something that they have to crack down upon. He's said that footballers must celebrate goals "with dignity," as if Carlos Tevez swinging his shirt around and jumping into the crowd to celebrate his first West Ham goal was some sort of reprehensible behavior.
There's a difference between "flopping" in basketball and diving in soccer. Basketball players fall down intentionally when run into, which is bad. Certain soccer players roll around on the ground in pretend pain until the ref takes out his yellow card. That's worse. To an American, two different things are at work here. There is nothing un-masculine about falling down if someone knocks you down. "Flopping" may be cheating, but it's not abhorrent to our culture. It is, however, un-masculine to cry in pain and try to elicit sympathy, unless, of course, you really are in serious pain. The problem, as I see it, is soccer officials' willingness to be influenced by the perceived seriousness of the injury. NFL officials take a lot of flak, but you have to hand it to them for not basing their calls on how long the victim rolls on the ground. A twisted face mask will always get a 15-yard penalty, even if the runner is not the least bit hurt. But many hits that send the hittee to the hospital get no flag at all, because the ref thinks they're legal.
Excellent distinction. You are correct -- the cheating isn't the issue. Heck, baseball is rife with stories of corked bats, stealing signs, spitballs, and so forth. We view baseball chicanery the way that Argentines view furtive handballs, as a sign of cleverness and at worst a minor offense. It's the faked injuries that are the killer for the sport's reputation. Clint Eastwood faces up to you and doesn't wince unless it hurts. A foreigner will sneak up behind you, and cry in fake pain if you catch him. Everybody knows that; soccer merely confirms it.
You realize that people that only watched the World Cup, and heard Balboa commenting think that diving is not just accepted but praised in soccer right? "Oh smart dive there by Ronaldo" "See that guy is a beginner. As he matures he will learn that the smart thing to do in this situation is to fall down and hope to get the call."
My guess is that most sports fans could tell that Balboa was an inept knucklehead as an announcer and had stopped listening to him about halfway through Germany's opening match.
Why should anyone care what NBA fans think of soccer? There are enough soccer fans in this country that aren't fans of MLS- that is the potential market. Besides, NBA players get touched on their way to the basket and it's a foul, talk about weak.
Worked for Kaka, didn't it now? The soccer rules support and encourage falling at the right time and the right places. Ultimately a player hurts his team if he doesn't learn where and when to fall. And they all do. Even the noble, manly Gerrard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztWniTA0Gxk
The kid's in my boy's junior high school were on him about how soccer is for girls, so he joined them once for the lunchtime BB game. Playing soccer-type defense. That put an end to that. He was never allowed back. At least they don't talk trash any more, as he scared the bleep out of them. They had no idea from playing only rec league soccer what the game is really like.
the reason I posted this is because the author of the Blog. Yes, Bill Simmons is an NBA fan, but he's an even bigger sports fan. He's also very much in touch with the masses in America, and that is the target audience for pretty much anything mainstream in this country. I mean, I don't normally post this stuff when I read it, but IMO Simmon's is the best in his genre. So when he says something like this, it's not just us who should listen - but also the powers that be in US Soccer.
I'm not saying it's irrelevant, well maybe I did, but what I mean is. US Soccer has enough soccer fans still to win over besides Joe Sports fan in the US. There are many fans of soccer in the US that deeply understand the game, but still aren't fans of the Nats or MLS. Likewise, I remember watching the Houston Rockets sweep the Orlando Magic in the NBA finals, heavily enbracing the "Hack a Shaq". They won the NBA finals partially through the strategic use of fouls. How lame is that? Dennis Rodman knew how to dive long before any Europeans were in the NBA. I'm not negating your point that what Simmons is saying matters to the average sports fan, but they're not the ones we're missing in attendance and support. Were missing the ones that follow the game, but are clueless about the US soccer scene.
to be honest, I'm not sure if we can win the soccer fans who are not US Soccer fans. I find that a lot of these folks to be close minded about MLS/US Soccer because they already have alliegiences to other countries based on their back ground - and look down upon US Soccer/MLS as the ugly step step sister. Maybe you can target both, dunno.
I got the same stuff from a couple of football players in my neighborhood when I started playing soccer in high school. So I dared them to head the ball. They said sure. I showed them how, with the forehead, keep the eyes open (as long as possible), etc. We went down to a nearby field and I had them boot the ball as high as they could. I headed it back at them, well over their heads. My turn. I booted the ball as high as I could. The first guy wussed out and caught it. Twice. The other football guy -- my neighbor, incidently -- was laughing at him. So for his turn, I hoofed it up into the air. Just before contact he closed his eyes, scrunched his neck into his shoulders, and jumped into the general direction of the ball. Two hours later I looked out my window and saw his parents leading him to the car. Turns out they went to the doctor. He had a concussion. That day was the last I ever heard from them that soccer was a girly game.