NFCDR: Clive Toye Interview: NASL v. MLS

Discussion in 'FC Dallas' started by FC Uptown, May 1, 2007.

  1. FC Uptown

    FC Uptown New Member

    Feb 3, 2006
    H-town
    "USSoccerPlayers (May 1, 2007) -- Clive Toye’s witty and anecdotal book A Kick in the Grass, published last year, illustrates how the North American Soccer League ultimately went down in self-inflicted flames, but not before it laid the foundation for the future success of youth soccer, the United States National Team, and Major League Soccer.

    Toye is most famous for luring Pelé to the Cosmos, but he was also the president of several NASL clubs, the commissioner of the league, and the man who designed the public relations campaign that introduced the sport to the American public.

    Given all these responsibilities, it will probably come as no surprise that he has a lot to say about the state of MLS, in particular, and American soccer in general..."

    More

    http://www.ussoccerplayers.com/exclusives/index.html?article_id=300
     
  2. Parrothead FC

    Parrothead FC Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he's a pretty funny guy, I've seen him interviewed on a few things. I don't necessarily trust everything he says, but sounds like an interesting read.
     
  3. fcd_noob

    fcd_noob New Member

    Apr 17, 2007
    Plano
    Those Cosmos dudes have massive egos. There is a saying, "defeat is an orphan, but success has a thousand fathers." Despite the collapse of the NASL, the former brass (such as Toye) view it largely as a success, and one that they apparently require frequent ring-kissing over.

    Look, as a kid the NASL meant little or nothing to me other than that I knew if you had a soccer ball at your feet to say "I'm Pele!" and that the Chicago Sting were the local team. I have no dog in the NASL hunt, so while I throughly enjoyed Once in a Lifetime I'm kinda thinking the NASL is over, and the MLS is what's happening now.

    In some ways the NASL hurt MLS by making the MLS brass (in all its forms) more skittish about making what we may call bold moves. But the SSS thing is huge, as is the Adidas involvement, as is the Beckham signing, as is the TV exposure - especially in HD.

    But if there was nothing else I agreed with in the interview, I can't agree more with the need for MLS to get out into the community more, and that goes beyond mere advertising or "marketing". I think FCD is making strides in "getting out more" but unfortunately there's a wide gap between success and failure, and "strides" may not resonate as a fundamental shift closer to success.
     
  4. england66

    england66 Member+

    Jan 6, 2004
    dallas, texas
    Clive Toye is an incredible man who gave a lot of himself to the development of the game in this country. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. Period. I have spoken to Clive on many occasions over the past few months, have read his excellent book and have nothing but good things to say about the man.

    This quote, so very, very true stood out like a beacon to me: "MLS has signally and deliberately ignored the fact that the NASL ever existed"

    There is a wealth of experience and knowledge out there waiting to be tapped into....a wealth of experience and knowledge that could, at NO COST have saved MLS hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions.....

    In Dallas alone myself and the many former teammates in the area laughed our asses off at the IDIOTIC decision to move to a fcuking painted astro turf high school "stadium" in fcuking Southlake....in the misguided attempt to save a few pennies at the expense of many dollars......Had ANY of us been asked our opinion about the con job that was the signing of a 37 year old goalkeeper ready to retire, to a three year GUARAN-FCUKING-TEED 300k a year contract we would have said..."have you fcuks not learned anything from the NASL?"

    MLS continues to TOTALLY ignore the wealth of experience that sits in their back yard.....If FCD had ANY sense at all they would hire Cooper sr as an "advisor".....he could have saved them a fortune already and more than paid for any small stipend they paid him....Yes, I'm pissed and will stay pissed despite their best efforts to get me to shut the fcuk up....Well....I'm not shutting the fcuk up....thought about it long and hard.....but decided I'm just going to continue doing what I enjoy doing....which is to tell it like it really is and if they don't like it then they have two choices....live with it or change.
     
  5. Dr. Foosball™

    Dr. Foosball™ New Member

    Dec 23, 2006
    Hot Springs, AR
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Must spread rep. :(
     
  6. Parrothead FC

    Parrothead FC Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ditto. :(
     
  7. boomersooner027

    May 13, 2004
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahamas
    Got ya covered.
     
  8. DeigoRedD

    DeigoRedD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 28, 2004
    Fort Worth, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also helped with the coverage of rep.
     
  9. FC Uptown

    FC Uptown New Member

    Feb 3, 2006
    H-town
    "We used to say: ‘We don't expect you to come to see us until we have been to see you,’ and it was difficult to avoid us....."

    Growing up, the Chicago Sting came to my elementary school, sponsored a summer camp in my town, autograph signings, free tickets - those were fun times.

    I'm out of rep for E66 btw.
     
  10. fc koshigaya

    fc koshigaya Member

    Jul 14, 2005
    Saitama City,Japan
    Club:
    Omiya Ardija
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. FC Uptown

    FC Uptown New Member

    Feb 3, 2006
    H-town
    Here is a regular season game of the Rowdies v. Vancouver in the old "Big Sombrero", which is pretty full and very loud in 1980.

    [youtube]h1l6tzVOYc8[/youtube]
     
  12. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    You do realize that MLS does all of that right now, too. While Mike has a solid point, I find it pretty funny that he's criticizing the one organization in MLS that actually has ownership experience with the NASL for being completely ignorant of the NASL.
     
  13. FC Uptown

    FC Uptown New Member

    Feb 3, 2006
    H-town
    Yes I realize this, and know several DISD teachers who have brought FCD to their schools and games. (Many Trinity Hall waitstaff are teachers).
     
  14. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    Do you sleep in the backroom? How does that work?
     
  15. Rowdies4ever

    Rowdies4ever New Member

    Jun 11, 2006
    New England
    Boo-ya. Wegerle was great. I was at that game. Great crowds for the Rowdies in the old Tampa Stadium.

    I really don't get the antipathy to the NASL I see on a lot of BigSoccer threads. Yes, the NASL made mistakes but without the NASL there would be no MLS. I really don't understand the hostility to history, either; people who think we should never revive the Rowdies or Cosmos, for example. Even after the example of reviving the Earthquakes, we still have this "it's history dude, it's over, let it die, get over it" mentality on BigSoccer, which has got to be the stupidest, most ignorant attitude ever. It's precisely history that we need more of, not less.
     
  16. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    There is already a team in NY, and calling them the Cosmos would entail paying Pepe Pinton $1,000,000....and no one is paying that much for a word. Tampa had an MLS team and didn't support it.....would calling them the Rowdies really change a damn thing?
     
  17. Rowdies4ever

    Rowdies4ever New Member

    Jun 11, 2006
    New England
    Amen. Bumping up thread.

    MLS is learning though - apparently it took Toronto FC to figure out that it might be a good idea to market MLS to actual soccer fans, by visiting soccer pubs to promote the new team. Imagine that. Marketing soccer to soccer fans. Who would have thought of that idea?:rolleyes:

    Better late than never.

    Without Clive Toye, we'd be up sh!t creek without a paddle. We wouldn't have MLS, or a national team program. We wouldn't have anything. Soccer would be right down there with field hockey, lacrosse, rugby, and cricket in terms of public awareness and popularity.
     
  18. Rowdies4ever

    Rowdies4ever New Member

    Jun 11, 2006
    New England
    It worked for the Clash.

    And you have your facts wrong. Go check the attendanced figures - Tampa was not the worst supported club when MLS closed it down, so stop repeating the lie that it wasn't supported. It was better supported than some other MLS clubs that were not shut down, in spite of not having an owner. Having MLS run a club was not a smart idea. Stop blaming Tampa Bay area fans, when it was MLS that f_cked things up. Tampa fans are being screwed twice - first by the MLS, and second by people like you, who falsely blame them for not supporting a club that the MLS did not know how to run, and ultimately gave up on. That's just adding insult to injury.

    As to the Cosmos, there will come a time when we will have a second team in New York, if MLS is ever going to be successful at all. Pepe Pinton isn't an idiot; he's a fan as much as anyone is and knows the name is worth nothing if he keeps it to himself. How much would it really cost? We don't know sh!t and repeating rumors about how much he wants for the name is just speculation, nothing more. Rodney Marsh said he was never approached from anyone in MLS about acquiring the Rowdies name (he owns a quarter of the rights). The name isn't worth anything to him if it dies. The MLS never considered acquiring the rights to the Rowdies name; where is the proof that they ever tried to acquire the rights to the Cosmos name? Repeating rumors as fact does not make it fact.

    If the right billionaire comes along who wants in to the New York market, MLS will accommodate him (we already have two teams in LA, after all). I've worked for companies that spent (wasted) hundreds of thousands of dollars paying "marketing experts" who did nothing more than slightly tweak their corporate logo, and invent a few new company slogans and mission statements. Paying off Pepe Pinton would be a f_cking business write-off, for the love of God. Or hire him as a club president/whatever and pay him off on the ten or twenty year installment plan - it's better for him too, for tax purposes, anyway. It is a business expense, either way; pay Pepe Pinton, or pay marketing experts to invent a new club identity which will never have the kind of history that the Cosmos name has. If I were a billionaire buying a soccer club, I'd go for the history, even if it cost more. The new American owners investing in EPL clubs seem to agree with me on that.

    MLS didn't try to acquire the rights to these names because MLS wanted nothing to do with NASL, and did not want to be associated with that history. That was their conscious choice and consistent policy. It certainly had nothing to do with Pepe Pinton, Rodney Marsh, or anyone else standing in their way. Instead of building on our shared soccer history, they chose to waste time and money reinventing the wheel.
     
  19. oman

    oman Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    South of Frisconsin

    And we six posters are listening, sir!
     
  20. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Plano
    I never stated that Tampa was the worst supported team in MLS, nice strawman, though. It has the 3rd worst attendance in MLS history....so it wasn't exactly drawing huge numbers. Point is, naming them the Rowdies would have changed little. Naming the MetroStars the Cosmos would have changed little. You can assemble a bunch of hacks and call them The Yankees, but they ain't winning the World Series. What matters is the names on the BACK of the jersey.
     
  21. gotyourback

    gotyourback Member

    Jul 18, 2002
    Aurora/Arlington
    Hmmm..

    A GM with MFL ties and Cooper Sr. as Coach..

    Hmmm..
     
  22. Mightymart

    Mightymart New Member

    Oct 30, 2006
    Hoops Nation
    E66 I cant give you any more rep. Thanks for the great insights, I am glad you are posting on here. I look forward to your posts.
     
  23. jeffenbauer

    jeffenbauer Member

    Jul 17, 2002
    dallas, tx
    this whole place sucks. I just rep'd like 10 people in this thread for the sole purpose of being able to rep E66 again. Now it tells me I have given out too much rep and I have to wait for 24 hours.

    seriously, if people deserve it, then they should be able to f'in get it.
     
  24. oman

    oman Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    South of Frisconsin
    And I thought we had something special, jeff...

    bastard.
     

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