2010 Seeding Formula: November 2007 update

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by scaryice, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    (Cross-posted to Climbing the Ladder)

    The new FIFA rankings are out for November. Now that the qualifying groups are known, I'll only include 32 teams that could potentially qualify. Like for instance, if 3 of the top 13 UEFA teams in the FIFA rankings are in the same group, then I would exclude the lowest ranked one. However, that didn't occur this month. Teams listed here will always be the best ones in the rankings that could qualify, not the ones that lead the standings.

    Next month's FIFA rankings will be very important. It's the first month of the three that get locked into place for the rankings half of the formula. It looks like England's disappoint at not getting into Euro 2008 could have further effects. They've slipped in the FIFA rankings, and will out on points in the at the tournament as well. If the other teams stay ahead of them, then they possibly could miss out on a World Cup seed.


    Top 7 teams seeded

    (South Africa automatically seeded as hosts)

    Code:
              		Total	WC	FIFA	Change
    1	Brazil  	60.3	29.3	31	0.0
    2	Germany 	58.3	30.3	28	0.0
    3	Italy   	57.3	27.3	30	0.0
    4	Spain   	54.3	25.3	29	2.0
    5	Argentina	53.0	21.0	32	0.0
    5	France  	49.3	23.3	26	-3.0
    7	England 	47.3	26.3	21	-1.0
    7	Portugal	47.3	22.3	25	0.0
    					
    9	Netherlands	38.7	14.7	24	-2.0
    10	Mexico  	37.3	19.3	18	0.0
    11	Czech   	33.0	6.0	27	3.0
    12	Croatia 	32.0	9.0	23	0.0
    13	USA     	28.7	13.7	15	0.0
    14	Turkey  	27.0	10.0	17	N/A
    15	Paraguay	24.7	11.7	13	2.0
    16	Japan   	22.8	13.3	9.5	-0.5
    17	Greece  	22.0	0.0	22	3.0
    18	South Korea	20.7	15.7	5	0.0
    19	Romania 	20.0	0.0	20	-1.0
    20	Scotland	19.0	0.0	19	-1.0
    21	Nigeria 	16.7	2.7	14	0.0
    22	Colombia	16.0	0.0	16	4.0
    23	Senegal 	15.7	8.7	7	0.0
    24	Australia	15.3	11.3	4	1.5
    25	Cameroon	15.0	3.0	12	-1.0
    26	Cote d'Ivoire	14.0	6.0	8	0.0
    27	Uruguay 	13.7	2.7	11	-5.0
    28	Iran    	11.3	5.3	6	0.0
    29	Saudi Arabia	10.0	8.0	2	-0.5
    30	Guinea  	9.5	0.0	9.5	0.5
    31	South Africa	4.0	3.0	1	0.0
    32	Honduras	3.0	0.0	3	N/A
    
    Honduras and Turkey are in the formula this month in place of Canada and Russia.

    Thanks to eldiablito and Edgar for their work on this in previous months.

    FAQ

    Why is this list different than FIFA's Coca-Cola rankings?

    Because Fifa's Coca-Cola rankings are only part of the complex seeding formula.

    What is the seeding formula used for?

    The seeding formula is used to determine which 8 countries receive seeds. Those 8 teams are heads of each of the 8 groups in the world cup. By being seeded, they get the luxury of not having to play another seeded team until the knockout stage.

    What is the seeding formula exactly?

    The complex formula takes into account the performance at the last 2 world cups and the FIFA rankings.

    Part A: World Cup performance = (2002*1+2006*2)/3
    Part B: FIFA Ranking = (12/2007 rank+12/2008 rank+11/2009 rank)/3
    Part A + Part B = world cup seeding formula

    For the purposes of this showing you the current standings in this thread, the current FIFA rank will count as all three years.

    How is the world cup performance determined?

    0 points are awarded if the country failed to qualify that year.
    The 16 teams that didn't make it out of the group stage are ranked (Points, GD, GF). The bottom 8 get 8 points each. The top 8 get 9 points each.

    All the countries that advanced to the knockout stage are placed from 1st place to 16th place. 1st place (champs) receives 32 points. 2nd place receives 31 points. 3rd place receives 30 points. etc. All the way to 16th place which receives 17 points.

    How are the points for FIFA ranking awarded?

    Similarly to above. First, all 32 teams that qualify are ranked by their FIFA ranking. The best is given 32 points. The worst 1 point. If two or more teams have the same FIFA ranking, the points are not divided among them. Instead, the one shown first in the FIFA rankings gets the most points and so on.

    How do you pick which 32 countries to run the seeding formula?

    I pick the countries based on their FIFA ranking by federation. For example, the best 13 UEFA teams by FIFA ranking since 13 UEFA teams will qualify. This is done primarily for two reasons. It keeps the criteria objective and it runs the formula with the worst-case scenario in mind.

    13.0-UEFA
    6.0-CAF (5+host)
    4.5-AFC
    4.5-CONMEBOL
    3.5-CONCACAF
    0.5-OFC

    Are you sure that FIFA will use this seeding formula?

    No, it might change slightly. For 2006 they only used the previous 2 World Cups instead of 3 like they did in 2002. But they've been using the same basic formula since 1994.

    Previous Editions

    July 2006
    August 2006
    September 2006
    October 2006
    November 2006
    December 2006
    June 2007
    July 2007
    August 2007
    September 2007
    October 2007
     
  2. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    Mock Draw

    (England and Portugal are currently tied for the final seed. I decided to use England because their World Cup performance, aka the half of the formula that is set in stone, is higher)

    Pot 1: Argentina, Brazil, England, France, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Spain
    Pot 2: Croatia, Czech, Greece, Netherlands, Portugal, Romania, Scotland, Turkey
    Pot 3: Cameroon, Colombia, Cote d'Ivoire, Guinea, Nigeria, Paraguay, Senegal, Uruguay
    Pot 4: Australia, Honduras, Iran, Japan, Korea Republic, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, USA

    Group A: South Africa, Croatia, Colombia, Mexico
    Group B: Brazil, Greece, Cote d'Ivoire, USA
    Group C: France, Romania, Senegal, Japan
    Group D: Spain, Portugal, Guinea, Honduras
    Group E: Argentina, Czech, Cameroon, Australia
    Group F: Italy, Scotland, Uruguay, Iran
    Group G: Germany, Turkey, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia
    Group H: England, Netherlands, Paraguay, Korea Republic
     
  3. Gaetjens38

    Gaetjens38 New Member

    Feb 17, 2005
    Missing the Euro really is going to hurt England. If either the Netherlands or Portugal goes deep into the Euro finals in summer 2008, England might be out of a seed, because of its drop in the FIFA rankings.

    I don't think it's possible for USA to get a seed. The max the US can finish with is 45.667 and that would only happen if the U.S. was ranked #1 next month.

    Some tough groups in that draw. I'd much rather be the Pot 4 team in Group B than in Group H.
     
  4. Gaetjens38

    Gaetjens38 New Member

    Feb 17, 2005
    The Euro Draw didn't do England any favors, either.

    The Netherlands and Portugal both ended up in different groups, while Croatia ended up in Group B with beatable Austria and Poland (and Germany).

    There are no internationals in December featuring major teams, so the November projection shouldn't change much. England is going to be in the Top 7 for the first set of locked rankings, but could easily be surpassed next summer after the Euro.
     
  5. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 26, 1999
    Eastern MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we had concluded going into this summer that it was going to be necessary to do something really ridiculous like win Copa America to have any shot at all of getting a seed. It's not just the ranking we would need, but the infeasability of getting it (due in part to the brokenness of the FIFA ranking system).
     

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