I found the following article about Justino Compean (the Don Garber in Mexico) http://mediotiempo.com/noticia.php?id_noticia=42356 Sorry, I didn't have time to translate the entire article but the following are the the main points. (Consideró que haber llegado a la Final en la Copa Oro y haber conquistado el tercer lugar de la Copa América es positivo para la Selección Mayor, mientras que a la Sub-20, eliminada en Octavos en el Mundial de Canadá se debe ver desde una óptica amplia para darse cuenta de que ha mejorado mucho.) He considered (Justino Compean) that making it to the Gold Cup final and having won third place in Copa America is very positive for the National Team, whereas the Sub-20, eliminated in the second round in Canada 2007 World Cup must be carefully analyzed to realize that there has been improvement. (Respecto a las derrotas de América y Morelia en la Superliga, que se desarrolla en Estados Unidos, precisamente ante equipos de ese país, el federativo no pierde la esperanza de que un equipo mexicano esté en la Final.) "México está muy por encima del futbol de Estados Unidos, tenemos que demostrar que nuestra liga es mejor que la MLS (Major Soccer League)", enfatizó.) He also comment on the recent defeats of America and Morelia (error, the author meant Pachuca) in Superliga, that is underway in the United States. Compean is very optimistic to have a Mexican team in the final. "Mexico's soccer is way beyond that the USA's, we must demonstrate that our league is better than MLS (Major Soccer League)", it emphasized. Pero esas derrotas de Monarcas y de las Águilas se suman a la sufrida por el "Tricolor" ante la Selección de Estados Unidos por 2-1 en la Final de la Copa Oro. Por eso indicó que el partido del próximo 9 de Septiembre en el Estadio Azteca va a establecer quién es mejor entre la Selección Mexicana y la estadounidense, a pesar de que sea un encuentro amistoso. "La Selección Mexicana está para ser la número uno de la CONCACAF y ahora ya está en tercero de la CONMEBOL y puede estar mejor". But those defeats of monarcas (again, should be tuzos) and the águilas are more defeats added to the one suffered by the "Tricolor" against USMNT s by 2-1 in the Gold Cup. Compean indicated that the match of September 9th in the Estadio Azteca is going to determine who is the best between the Mexico and the US, although it is a friendly game. Mexico's Natonal Team is ready to become #1 in CONCACAF and is the third one in CONMEBOL. This is outrageous. With all the respect, when will Mexicans learn to understand that the gap has been closed? US soccer (national teams and league) has evolve in recent years and it has been proven in friendly games and official games ('07 Gold Cup Final) A friendly will never determine who is the best, but an official competition does: US has won Gold Cup in '05 and '07 and undefeated in each tournament. Bottom line: US is #1 in Concacaf. Don't be surprise to see an Aztecazo on September 9th. USMNT always play in mini-Estadio Aztecas here in US soil. They should be able to handle the pressure and the crowd.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More ...but there is the altitude thing. Maybe we should have FIFA come in and measure the altitude one more time, just to make sure Azteca qualifies. I think I could help them measure.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More That is exactly the problem with US soccer, many don´t seem to understand there is a whole world outside of Mexico, yes, winning against Mexico in the Gold Cup is great, but the last 4 Gold Cups have been played in US soil only, and yes winning against Mexican teams in Superliga is cool, but Superliga is only played on US soil, but even if it was played on both countries it is only against one country. While US is focusing 100% on Mexico, Mexico is focusing on Copa America, Copa Libertadores and Copa Sudamericana. They just got the 3rd place in Copa America, they have the current Copa Sudamericana champion and constantly have great results in Libertadores, a friend a few weeks ago even showed me the stats in which Mexican teams have won more games against Argentinian teams in Libertadores than the Argentinian teams against Mexican teams. MFL and MNT will acknowledge the gap has close when the US proves it with the other kids in the continent, as I said, there is a whole world outside of Mexico, and MLS and USNT has been wrong ignoring that world and concentrating on Mexico while they are concentrating on the whole continent.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More This is an argument open for discusion. I think everyone admits that it was a huge mistake of sending the USMNT with a "b-squad" to Copa America, it was a step backwards. But think South Africa 2010: the more players with experience the better the national team will be. MLS has only received invitations to Copa Sudamericana (I think). DC United will be playing its second CONMEBOL tournament. I think there has to be a reason for a second invitation. The U20 squad made it to quarterfinals, that was an improvement. CONCACAF Champion Cup: You have to remember that Dynamo was a tough one for Pachuca. They had to give free tickets to make sure they had the support and despite that Dynamo played extra time and almost, almost made it to the final. Copa Libertadoes: unfortunately, no MLS team has participated in any. Hopefully that will change. Maybe the Mexican teams have a better record against the Argentinean. But name the Mexican team that has won Copa Libertadores. Sorry, 2nd place Cruz Azul does not count. SuperLiga: You're right this tournament is played in US soil and this helps MLS teams. NO, have you seen the games? Dynamo-America was half and half. I think there were a few more America fans than Dynamo fans. Just watch Galaxy and the mama goats this Saturday and you will see that the Mexican teams are playing with huge supporters crowd.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More My point is not if any Mexican team has won the Libertadores, or how much advantage playing Superliga only in the US is for MLS (but for the record, it doesn't matter how many fans they have on the stands, it is an advantage only playing in your turf). My point is that one of the biggest problems if not the biggest right now is that everyone (the fans, the teams, the USNT) is focusing their attention on Mexico, we like to talk about gaining credibility, but we don't really try to get some, US soccer is only thinking about Mexico. Mexico on the other hand (fans, teams, NT) is focusing their attention on gaining credibility, they know there is a whole world out there, and they know Concacaf brings no credibility at all. Yes, they have not won the Libertadores, but then again, winning it is very difficult, but they are winning, no, let me rephrase that, they have won tons of credibility, having winning records against every nation except Brazil, they have earned respect. Yes the MLS doesn't send any teams, but it is because the MLS didn't do their homework, it took Mexico lots of years to get their teams there, and now that they are there they are taking it very seriously, MLS should get teams in Libertadores, they need to do the homework the FMF did. Copa Sudamericana, they are taking it very seriously, they have the reigning champion, DC United should take it a little more seriously, Sudamericana brings respect. CCC, they have the reigning champion, they didn't took the tournament seriously until FIFA invented the club world cup, know that it brings respect they are interested and have won the thing. And lets not forget Copa America, they have played how many times now?, 7, they have been 3rd place 3 times and 2nd place 2 times, the US disses the Copa a few times, and when they decide to attend again they lose all of their games but think they can brag around the world their Gold Cup title. What do you think brings recognition and shows the gaps are closing?, The Gold Cup that has been played every time in the US (except for one that was cohosted by the US and Mexico) and the Superliga in which only 2 countries participate and every game is played in the US?, or the Copa America, the Copa Libertadores and Copa Sudamericana? US soccer as a whole needs to understand (like Mexico did) that Concacaf and Superliga does not show the gap is closing and does not bring recognition, Mexican teams are starting to win against River Plate, Boca Juniors, Santos, Corinthians, Nacional, etc, etc, etc, that's why they don't see the gap closing, they have defeat some huge teams in matches that are played on both sides (unlike Superliga, they will always use that as an excuse, the fact they are not playing a single game in Mexico). But most importantly, they don't want the respect of the US, or rather they don't want the respect of only one country, they are trying to get the respect of as many as possible, when the MLS and USNT learns this they will get recognition, they need recognition, they deserve recognition, but they don't go for it.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More MLS is using SuperLiga as a step to get more recognition from Conmebol. It's part of the point for having the thing in the first place. And, please, enough of this "we disrespect Copa America thing". Regardless of what some folks in the US believe and the announcers on the networks that have paid to televise it hype up, the Copa America is NOT considered all that big a deal everywhere - not even everywhere in South America.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More i feel you're contradicting yourself with this statement. if i understand correctly, you're saying Mexico only started taking CCC seriously because it leads to a Club World Cup invite. well, winning the Gold Cup leads to a Confederations Cup invite. this is not only an opportunity to gain respect (as you call it) from major soccer nations around the world, but it's also extremely good practice for the World Cup the following year, as it is held in the exact same venues. and the better you can do in the World Cup, the more respect you get from other soccer powerhouses. a lot was expected from the USMNT in WC06, due to their performance in WC02... not just in the US, but around the world (i say around the world, but i guess i only know of germans that were expecting such) basically, my point is that focusing on the Gold Cup does not necessarily mean we're only focusing on Mexico. the reason to win the Gold Cup is to get the Confederations Cup invite. this is why the USMNT was more focused on winning that than Copa America.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More I found it funny that he said that the upcoming match will determine who's best between the two teams. Nothing mentioned however about the past 10 years of matches between thet two teams.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More So how many years have the Mexican teams been playing? How long has MLS existed? How many times have the FMF played in tournaments outside of Mexico? How many leagues with a major league stature exist within reasonable and financial distance from the US and MLS? You have to start somewhere. This league is only 12 years old. Mexico's was founded in 1943. 64 years. A little bit longer than our MLS. So it stands to reason that our league and USMNT would focus on the closest "big boy" to us to test ourselves. If we can dominate Mexico then we can move on to the next test. Soccer/futbol isn't even our country's main sport. I would rank MLS behind NFL, NBA, MLB, College Football, College Basketball, in terms of revenue generated and TV viewership. Most kids are raised playing/watching either football, basketball, baseball. It is ingrained into their childhood experience. Some grow up playing soccer but it is a minority. All of our best athletes play in the big 3 sports with some of our good athletes playing soccer. For Mexico it is futbol and that is it. All their focus and resources goes into futbol. So they better be damned better than us. Turns out on any given day, we have a good chance of pulling out a win with our better MLS teams. We are winning against Mexican teams without our best athletes and resources (training, stadiums, etc). That says a lot about how far we have come. I am happy focusing on beating Mexico because they are our closest geographic rival and you have to start somewhere. Baby steps. You have to dominate CONCACAF first. Is MLS equal to FMF? No. But the gap is closing a lot faster than the FMF and its fans want to believe. Well believe it. Soon. Very soon the MLS will start to win more than it loses in these games.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More I don't really care if Mexico fans or their federation leaders think they are still the premier team in the region, heads and shoulders above the US, and I struggle to understand why American fans seemingly need their validation. It's as if we aren't actually good unless a Mexican tells us we are. Screw 'em. Let them think they are better than we are at the national level and let them disrespect MLS. Who cares? It will make it easier for us to continue beating them. Actions speak louder than words and the results of the past 10 years or so tell me all I need to know about American soccer when they play Mexico. I do think USSF did focus on Mexico too much in the past but that's because it was a short term goal that improved the overall health of the program. You can't go from a minnow in CONCACAF to world power. It's a stepwise process and logically, when you're a minnow, your first goal is to compete with the big boys within your region. In the 90s, the US improved as a result of measuring themselves against Mexico. In the 2000s, they've taken that goal as far as it can go and I think they've shown that they aren't as singularly focused on Mexico as they were because now they are on equal footing with Mexico at the very least. Since Germany, I feel the USSF has started to institute changes that show that beating Mexico isn't what drives us any more. They've scheduled numerous friendlies in Europe, they've scheduled the friendly in Azteca (which, for the life of me, I can't figure out why Mexico would agree too. It's a no win situation for Mexico and a nothing to lose proposition for the US.), and they've entered Copa America again.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More Though we don't have the depth, passion and history of League play as Mexico, we have something more powerful. We have resources. We have the training facilities, we have the money, and we have ability to organize camps for all age levels where as Mexico has somewhat of these but not even close to on the same number. Let's face it, the gap which the Mexican League is enjoying has started to cease to exist.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More The altitude thing, alone, could be absorbed by going early to Mexico City and becoming acclimatized ahead of time. The dense cloud of killer smog thing, alone, could be minimized by getting to Mexico City at the last possible moment. The beauty of the deathpit that is Azteca, a testament to the cunning of our adversary, is that to do one is to be unable to do the other. As they say in chess, zungzwanged we be So of course El Bravo Jefe of Mexican bolempedism considers a friendly at azteca to be what decides what nation's soccer is superior. He really has no shame
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More You are missing my point, I´m not arguing who is better, and I couldn´t care less to begin or participate in a discussion about which is league is better or closing gaps, (there are 3 leagues I care about because each one has a team I love, La Liga, MLS and MFL, I will not take sides in a discussion involving 2 or more of these leagues, but if you talk about National teams then I only care about 2, and Spain is not one of those, the other 2 are obvious). The point is that there is a whole world out there, fans and many teams and soccer heads concentrate on Mexico only, and that is a huge mistake, a few are doing the right things, in a near future you will have to thank the teams and soccer heads that are not concentrating on Mexico, those are the guys that will help cement MLS.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More In other news, Compeon stated that Fulham would not win a match if playing a typical MFL season, even if the Mexican teams had blindfolds on and played with large blocks of concrete attached to one leg by chains.
2-0 Not much more needs to be said actually. Mexico is our whipping boy. They can go and say that they are #3 in CONMEBOL, but unfortunately they're still #2 in CONCACAF and that's where Mexico is. I don't see that changing in the near future. But now that we've shown our superiority to Mexico I hope that they start to take the challenge to South America. I would love to see a playoff (is replay the tight term here?) with the CCC & Copa Libertadores Champion in a home-home situation. I would love to see US taking Copa America more seriously (but does it have to be immediately after the Gold Cup?).
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More Especially if they had to play Tigres. At least that's what I've read on BS recently.
Re: 2-0 It happened this year, Pachuca won 1-0 at home and lost 4-0 at Internacional. Technically it was the Copa Libretadores winner against Sudamericana winner, but since Pachuca won both the CCC and Sudamericana it serves the same purpose.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More Good point, and one that I think a lot of USMNT and MLS fans would do well to remember. A lot of MNT's rhetoric has been biased on the "permanent state of denial" that shields them from their own losses. Unfortunately some pee-brains are stating to take this approach to the club level tournaments now too, which is sad for MFL. At some point they will have to be accountable for not being able to handle business in our region first, no matter how well they nearly do outside it. If you can't take care of business at home you have no ground to crow about successes elsewhere. (Because eventually you stop qualifying to leave the region.) I think we're starting to see the first signs of USMNT/MLS taking the next step in that process you mention. As a country and league we are just getting the handle on being competitive in our own backyard which is what we need to be a consistent threat in World Cups (both club and country). But now we need to keep focused on actual improving instead of just patching a team together to make as big a splash as possible... Oh, sorry Rey and Bandido. From the sounds of the article that started this thread someone didn't get your memo about SuperLiga. I guess that's proof that not everyone will listen to reason...
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More Here is my honest question: Since this game is supposed to determine who is the best team in CONCACAF, shouldn't Mexico have to go play someone like Costa Rica or Guadeloupe, and then the winner of that game get to play the US? Why does Mexico automaticaly get to play us for continent supremecy?
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More One game determines this? what the hell? what about the last 12 or 13 times we have played them?
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More 2-0. It's all that needs to be said. Every game they play against us it's the same crap. That game will show their true class and they'll beat us and show how great they are. Of course, then they lose & the next match is the one that they will show how great they are. Whatever, 2-0.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More Also, any matches played on US soil in front of a tame, non-threatening US crowd don't count against Mexico if they lose, but count sorely against us if they win. They call us spazzos, well we need to come up with a name for them. Assholes is too obvious.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More who you calling an asshole? don't come in here and assume all Dynamo fans root for USMNT, so go do that sht on another board. btw, a spazzo is a spazzo is a spazzo. they come in all shapes and colors including the green, white & red kind. Australian and Canadian spazzos are the worst......
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More The shift of power between the U.S. and Mexico occured between the Gold Cup Final in '98 which was won by a Luisa header after Wynalda was deemed offside in a calssic IronEagles vs. El tri encounter and leading up to the Mundial in Japorea '02. I watched this with my old long time Mexican friend and it was a tough loss. I told him it was close but he was correct in that Mexico was the King. The plot thickens in '99 with Mexico defending its Azteca turf in the Confederations Semi-Final on a Cuat. goal in o.t. That was a re-claiming of pride from WCQ in '97 when 0-0 was the scoreline between the two teams and when El tri fans were chanting Oles to their own team cuz of the IronEagles getting their first ever points from Azteca. Then there was Donovan and Mathis playing the beautful game on Donovan's Senior team debut in October of 2000 and that was the schocker cuz it was the same pro El-Tri atmosphere that was there in '98 in the Gold Cup Final. The L.A. Colesiuem is and always will be Azteca Dos. Then there was the shift. Just 5 months later in WCQ for Japorea '02, the U.S. hosted El Tri in the opening round of the Hex. It was on that night that the Mexican media had to run headlines the next day of "Not Even Worth Mentioning" and blasted Ojitos Meza (now with Los Tuzos) for the 2-0 loss. It was avenged that July 1-0 as again El Tri found a way to hold Azteca down and win. Yet Mexico had to beat Honduras on the last fixture date to even qualify for the Mundial...hardly King stuff. This all led up to the, and here is where the end all of all end alls lives, at World Cup Japorea 2002. In the first ever matchup between two CONCACAF nations at a World Cup the first ever meeting of the U.S. and Mexico in a World Cup and the type of matchup that comes along only once in a generation for a futbol man and that might be optimistic...the U.S. won and thus laid claim to the title of #1 side in all of North America. End of story. IIRC it was Sanchez that told the global press and their own media back home that "we will meet up with the U.S. again in the World Cup...God will make it so...then and only then can we have our revenge!" That sums it up for me. United States is #1 until Mexico beats its super arch rival in the World Cup. Sanchez is right...only then will the claim to the throne be defended or vanquished! This friendly in Azteca is a one-off International. Nothing more. Gold Cup Grand Final, WCQ and the World Cup itself is where the real deal holyfield lives and breaths. Its results from these 3 types of environments that tell the story. And usually, El Tri has the lions share of passionate support no matter where the match is played. So that is an additional credit to the shift in power.
Re: (NDR) US MNT vs. México @ Estadio Azteca Sept. 9 (The Aztecazo) and More The US hasn't won at Aztec right? I'm not seeing a Dos a Cero win, but I do think we can win.