In case you missed it the appeal failed today, but not to anyone's surprise. Let's look at some facts of the appeal that very little are reporting... Juve, in theory, should be presenting their request to a "neutral" referee / chairperson to try to reach a compromise, but as we all know in Italy neutral is a relative term. The "neutral" referee is Angelo Piazza and in the broadest sense he's neutral because he doesn't belong to the FIGC or Juve. BUT he's a member of Parliament who just a few days ago signed a petition, which was also signed by all the Bologna reps, so that Bologna is admitted to Serie A. One team would be in Serie A at the other teams expense so calling him impartial and neutral is a joke. One should also note that Piazza will also be the neutral mediary in Giraudo's appeal. Yesterdays Tuttosport had an article in which the newspaper laid out what is Juve's appeal was and what the FIGC's offer reportedly was : The situation at the moment is : - Relegation to Serie B - 17 points penalty - 2004/05 scudetto taken away - 2005/06 scudetto not assigned to Juve - 3 game suspension of our home ground - 120,000 Euro fine What Juve reportedly asked: - cancellation of the relegation to Serie B - re-admittance of the team in Serie A with a penalty (-20) - cancellation of the 3 game suspension - reduction in the 120,000 fine What is FIGC reportedly offering: - cancellation of the 3 game suspension - cancellation of the 120,000 Euro fine. Juve have already contacted Jean Louis Dupont, Bosman's lawyer, so that they can use his services in any eventual further step especially in European courts. A recent judgement by the European court said that a sports disciplinary commission CANNOT hand a penalty which would cause large economical consequences since it would violate the fair competition grounds. Juve has expressed its will to bring the case to the TAR and its board will convene on Monday to discuss what steps to take next. I would expect the start of Serie A to be pushed back even further.
Hmm, in the first trial didn't Juve ask the courts to be lenient on them and "only" send them to Serie B. Well, the courts did that(with a points penalty) and Juve are still not satisfied. I'd bet if Juve were readmitted to Serie A with a -20 they'd still appeal further(to the European courts) to get those points back. Juve should just realize they got off easy. They could be in Serie C right now.
Umm, NO. You obviously only read what you want and have for the entire trial and appeals. No actually, that's what they've been requesting all along. You mean got off easy like Milan? What a joke that turned out to be.
Maybe Serie A can start by Christmas. I hope that the season gets delayed for a long time. Yesterday, Reggina received its penalty. Not one article articulated what Reggina did wrong. Referees are exonerated. So how did this system work? All we hear is that Juve is guilty. That Juve has always been guilty. But guilty of what? At least Gigli is a fighter. Looks like he has the spirit of his predecessors.
Good news that Juve is fighting this. Just today the Board of Directors of Juve voted to take this to TAR. That means this now is going to exit the sporting tribunals and head to the civil tribunals for judgement on appeal. This means that the Sep 9th start date COULD be pushed back by an injunction from TAR (they have the power to do this). Or, TAR could try to convene beforehand in August to deal with this, but time is running out. Either way, Juve will fight on. And, frankly, they should fight. Moggi is no angel, but there still is no evidence of sporting fraud. Did you know that neither the sporting tribunal or Corte Federale found any of the Juve incidents to be "sporting fraud" (ie. the more serious offense)? All they did was add up a bunch of minor offenses which are called "disloyal acts" (ie. exerting undue influence)....and they added those acts together and called the sum of it "sporting fraud". That's akin to adding up multiple incidents of misdemeanor petty theft and convicting someone of felony grand larceny. It's simply wrong. Either what Juve did was "sporting fraud" or it wasn't.
[QUOTE='Uaglio]Good news that Juve is fighting this. Just today the Board of Directors of Juve voted to take this to TAR. That means this now is going to exit the sporting tribunals and head to the civil tribunals for judgement on appeal. This means that the Sep 9th start date COULD be pushed back by an injunction from TAR (they have the power to do this). Or, TAR could try to convene beforehand in August to deal with this, but time is running out. Either way, Juve will fight on. And, frankly, they should fight. Moggi is no angel, but there still is no evidence of sporting fraud. Did you know that neither the sporting tribunal or Corte Federale found any of the Juve incidents to be "sporting fraud" (ie. the more serious offense)? All they did was add up a bunch of minor offenses which are called "disloyal acts" (ie. exerting undue influence)....and they added those acts together and called the sum of it "sporting fraud". That's akin to adding up multiple incidents of misdemeanor petty theft and convicting someone of felony grand larceny. It's simply wrong. Either what Juve did was "sporting fraud" or it wasn't.[/QUOTE] Guys what would happen if say TAR went the other way and said they wanted us in serie b minus 30 would we have to go minus 30 points again or do we do what figc says
If TAR worsens the sentence, then it gets applied immediately and Juve would have to live with a worse sentence. In that regards, its risky.
[QUOTE='Uaglio]If TAR worsens the sentence, then it gets applied immediately and Juve would have to live with a worse sentence. In that regards, its risky.[/QUOTE] What's the chances of that?
The more Juve appeals and disrupts the Italian season, the more they look selfish. If they have no respect for the domestic league, they should just leave altogether. - Paul
I was in Italy on holidays and talked to a few tifosi. Everyone is sure that Berlusconi & Galliani are as much guilty as Moggi and can't understand why there is such an injustice referring to the penalty. They believe that Moggi is the scapegoat, whereas Berlusconi made use of his political & financial influence. Our Juve officials are doing right with not accepting this injustice! I accept that Moggi's stupidity has to get punished - but it's not fair to see us getting such a strong penalty, whereas Milan is allowed to play CL...
All this just reinforces how sad the FIGC really is. Every step of this investigation and the subsequent appeals and reductions have all been too lengthy and do, ultimately, hurt calcio. It does appear Juve have borne the brunt of the penalty here but the fact remains that because the FIGC can't pull their head out of their collective ***** they've done nothing but exarcebate an already horrible situation. I'd love to see David Stern run the FIGC.
Mr. Blatter seems to have a problem with us... FIFA WARN FIGC OVER JUVENTUS FIFA have threatened the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) with heavy sanctions, should they not step in to block Juventus' appeal against their punishment in the match-fixing trial. http://www.sportinglife.com/footbal...feed/06/08/23/SOCCER_Ita-Juventus_Appeal.html
They can appeal, but only to the international Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne, Switzerland. This his the highest sport court, the verdict would be final. However, to appeal to a civil court is "illegal" by FIFA regulations. FIGC has joint FIFA and therefor accepted their regulations. A fundamental regulation is the autonomy of sport judiciary. If clubs go to civil courts, there would be absolut chaos and a regular championship would be impossible. (because of e.g. the duration of procedures at civil courts) However, it's gonna be interesting to see how this is gonna end. I just hope we will see il campione del mondo at euro 08.
Juve is a publicly traded corporation under Italian law and has duties and responsibilities to their shareholders. The board is obligated to take any actions necessary to protect its shareholders. So FIFA and FIGC can whine all they want as there are other jurisdictions involved in this situation. Tell you what, whining and threatening more sanctions or points will only spur TAR to take the case and look favorably towards Juve. And if this FIFA regulation becomes an issue, it will be interesting to see the courts declare it illegal. This regulation is very broad and could be struck down.
Of course they are, but you're missing the point imo. If you want to be part of an private association, which fifa is, you have to obey to their regulations. That's a CHOICE you have as a club. If you do not like this regulations - well you're free to leave FIGC and start you're own league, which will not join fifa. You won't be able to compete in the CL though, because it's an uefa event. However the tactic of juve may very well be successful. Fifa can not ban clubs, but only federations. So they only could ban FIGC, which would mean no CL, no Uefa-cup for any Italian club and no Euro 08 for the Italian NT. It's kind of a poker game. Fifa could do this, but juve thinks that they don't have the balls to punish the whole league like this. Or you could say juve takes the whole italian league as an hostage. But coming back to you're point. is the board really protecting the shareholders by taking such a risk? maybe yes, maybe no.
Well, I'm not a Juve fan and I believe they have every right to take this to civil courts. The problem is FIFA is a corrupt organisation that fights tooth and nail to remain above the law and have no governement interference whatsoever. What Juve is doing threatens FIFA's status quo. They won't treat Juve's actions lightly. As bullshit as it may seem, FIFA won't give a shit. The will protect their turf as long as they can.
It seems to me this case could have a lot of ramifications. If FIFA does impose sanctions against the FIGC because of this, I think there could be a real fight. I don't know what court(s) it would be waged in, but frankly, I don't think FIFA has a legitimate case, and it'd sure be nice if they could be knocked down a peg or two. But if it goes that far, it could be a long and painful and very ugly process, and I'm not sure anybody really wants to see that happen.
I'd love to see someone put FIFA in its place. The problem is that this could be painful for soccer in Italy in the short term. FIFA could ban all Italian teams from international competion, at their whim. I don't think anyone wants to see that happen.
I want to see it happen as it would make for a great soap opera. Bottomline Juve is calling Fifa's bluff and the real fireworks are about to go off. If Italian teams get sacked from international competition whether it be long term or short term Juve is going to look really really bad. Do you really think Juve will fair better in a civil court if all of Italian teams are banned from international competition? I can see it now "We are Juve we don't deserve any of this as we are angels. We should be in series A with a minus 3 points at worst. Judge and jury I am sorry you will not be able to cheer for your team for the 08 Euro and we are making fools of ourselves and all of Italian soccer around the world but it is not our fault. We at Juve think our shiit doesn't smell and we should not be punished for anything." You guys are fools if you really think things are going to change in a civil court after the gauntlet is thrown by Fifa.
I don't know if the appeals court will rule in Juve's favor or not. But Juventus certainly has the RIGHT TO MAKE THAT APPEAL, and that's where FIFA should butt out.
FIFA will do exactly what they did with Greece this summer. Except instead of the Greek government capitulating to FIFA, I can see Juve givng FIFA and all of Italian soccer a big f.u. and going ahead with it anyway. This is going to end in disaster.