My vote goes to Der Kaiser on this one. He was a dominant player that led club and country to victories on the biggest stages. 3 straight European Cups with Bayern Munchen, a World Cup with West Germany in 1974, a European Championship with West Germany in 1972 and 3 soccer bowls with the Cosmos. I think he gets underrated due to the fact that he was a defender or defensive mid.
Yup,totally agree ^, I don't even think Maradona and Pele are in their own class. You can't tell me they are superior to players like Cruyff, Mueller or Beckenbauer. They're just not. They are all in the same league if anything.
I agree I think they are pure class and the two greatest but not far superior to other greats i.e. Zidane, Maldini, and Cruyff. In my honest opinion if Ronaldo had concentrated on football and only football he would have been no question the greatest player ever. I also think that when he hangs up his boots he should be looked at as one of if not the greatest striker who ever lived. For the past 3 years his form may have not been amazing. But from 1996-2002 he displayed skill and speed never before seen.
I voted di Stefano because he showed he was better of two when compared to Puskus, and Puskus was among the greatest. besides, he achieved everything when he was old. he must be better when he is younger.
I would say Zidane. He is what made France winners in the world cup 1998 and the euro 2000. I think he has the most influence in the past decade in football. Nobody matches his elegant style of play and his presence. He is still, depite his age, one of the best players in the world. If Ronaldo didn't get injured, I would have rated him higher than Zidane. Pre-injury Ronaldo is definitely up there with Pele and Maradona or higher.
Alfredo di Stefano was 34 when Real Madrid beat Frankfrut in 1960. Some considered that was his height. Zidane is now 33. He has begun to lose some of his magic. Alfredo di Stefano was an all-around player. he can pop up at one end of the field defending liked a true defender and ended up in the other end as the most dangerous striker the game had ever seen. He was also one of the greatest playmaker of all-time. Besides his beautiful ovement, he was known for his stamina. He was beckenbauer-Keane-Gerd Muller-Platini all in one.
Sorry, but you can't put Maradona on one level with Pele and Beckenbauer. Maradona was great, but no all-time great, in my opinion he isn't even the best player from Argentina, Di Stefano did much more to the game than just crazy tricks with the ball.
I disagree with the entire pemise of the thread. For starters I would argue that both Beckenbauer and Di Stefano should be rated above Pele and Maradona.
Agreed Bertje; its actually an absurd reason not to call Maradona an all-time great. Now one of his greatest assets - in addition to his drive - is being used to marginalize him? I also don't understand the Pele analogy. In which games was he doing "tricks"? Its well documented that its his mastery of all the fundamentals - as well as his ability for improvisation and winning on every setting - that makes him well regarded by any student of the game. Everyone has their preferences, and that's more than okay, but ....in a general comment, I've noticed how it has now become fashionable on the Beautiful Game - thanks in large part to SirManchester, and now it seems a sizeable following - to dismiss players with immense technical and improvisational abilities as "trick"-sters. Sad.
While I will always prefer a player who can be both leader and follower at once, like Cruijff or Di Stefano, every great team has atleast one player who can do something not expected, improvise against the tighter defenses.
He doesn't have an argument, I'm afraid. What it's come to is that Teso and SirManchester have perceived some kind of pervasive 'Brazilian bias' on BS and have now become reactionaries declaring at every opportunity the superiority of non-Brazilian teams and players. Thus, Bayern Munich '74 over Brazil '70, Gerd Muller over Ronaldo, Beckenbauer over Pele, etc. etc. . . And now Maradona has been included in their rebellion. Of course there are arguments for all of these things, and they might be good ones, but one senses they are made out of perversity, a perceived need to 'correct' excesses in thought. In short, we're seeing a crusade against 'phantom votes', 'fanboys', 'glory-hunters', and the like, all of which apparently over-hype Brazlian soccer in the minds of SirM and Teso. Can't one just ignore the fanboys and simply vote according to what's sensible? Apparently not.
This list contains the too-young-to-say Rolandinho, Sanchez, and Charlton . . . but not George Best?!?!?!
Let's forget about the Peles, the Maradonas, the Madonnas and the Michael Jacksons..... I think only three players can be considered for the discussion: Cruijff, Beckenbauer and Di Stefano. I voted Di Stefano over Cruijff because he was a better leader on the team. He made players around better. Cruijff seemed to have attitude problem. He pissed off all his teammates on his Ajax team in the 1970s and then got into a fight with the Dutch NT. With Barcelona, he also had some problems with the management in the end. His attitude casued problems with his own team. Even Maradona who was known to be a trouble-maker was loved by his own teammates.
I think what gets overlooked from time to time with great dribblers and individually gifted players is that they sometimes are able to win games almost by themselves. While it might seem that they are selfish, it should not make them less of a player simply because they might not have made those around him better in the way that a well balanced player who is a remarkable passer and defender does. You've got to consider who they've got around them as well as well as the end result. A player who scores many goals is great, one who creates many goals is great and one who stops many goals is great as well. Of course there are transitional players as well, those who distribute the ball those who lend to both attack and defence as well and they can be greats as well. In my mind, a player who contributes greatly to scoring, creating or stopping goals as well as other secondary areas like distribution, sparking attacks, dribbling players to create width/space for others is great. You don't have to do all, and naturally if someone is above average in all aspects then they are a great in that respect, but someone who is multifaceted is not necessarily better than someone who is "one dimensional." A player like Keane in his prime did it all except perhaps score goals and in my mind he's a damn fine player but not up there with Maradona or even George Best who were "one dimensional" who could only attack and score/create goals. If the logic that you had to be well rounded to be great held up then you might as well not bother to play on the wing if you want to be remembered right? Or perhaps unless you are Lucio/Terry rolled into one you should not bother being a CB either because you can't be great.
When thinking of the perfect player, the most important thing to me is that he has to be able to direct, increase or decrease the tempo and make other players better. Ronaldinho, while he is an increadible player, will never make another player better. Deco, on the other hand will. I like the strategists, the coaches. A player does not have to be able to dribble past 4 players because the best teams create a situation in which this player only has to dribble past one player. Do more with less, but to do so you will always need one player who place his teammates on the right spot. I understand what SirManchester means. I too for instance think there are a lot of people on these boards who don't know what they are talking about. Neglecting a player like, in this instance, Müller who I too think was a greater player then Ronaldo can ever be. But who cares about what those other people think. I am here for the intelligent discussions and sometimes just some fooling around. And if you really need to do something about it, make threads about them. Show them what you are talking about so they can form their own opinion. There might be quite a lot "Brazilian fanboys" here, but if they are not what you looking for then why talk to them?