Stemming from a suggestion from Gregoriak in the Soccer History group and some initial discussions in the last All Time Draft thread, this thread is to determin interest and rules for a draft of players who, for whatever reason, did not get the chance to shine at the highest level. For those interested, we need to determine a set of criteria for player elligibility. Already determined is that any player selected in either All Time Draft, any player selected or banned in either Sheep Draft and any player who has been named World or European Footballer of the Year is excluded from this draft. My own additional suggestions (all of which are open to debate) would be as follows: 1) Any player named South American Footballer of the Year is excluded. 2) Any player who started more than one second stage or later match at the World Cup is excluded. 3) Any player who has started in a European Championship semi final or final is excluded. 4) Any player who has started in a Copa America semi final, final or final group stage match is excluded. 5) All players are judged purely on performances at club level. Obviously this is dependent on enough interest, but I think it would be perfectly possible with as few as 7 or 8 teams.
I'll sign up and don't mind picking solo or in a pair. I agree with all suggested criteria. I suppose the unwritten rule as intended by Gregoriak is that the player should've clearly had a better Club career than International career, but the rules put forward probably cover that anyway in most or all cases. Perhaps the opening criteria from each of the 2 Sheep Drafts (35 International Goals and 100 International Caps) could be added as an excluding criteria? The RSSSF pages could be linked I suppose if so.
Not so sure about this. There are some players that meet this criteria who would fit the purposes of this draft, but because they played for smaller nations were able to amass high totals.
I also think there should be a rule to exclude current promising or recently established young players. Maybe a minimum number of league appearances.
Sure, I'd be up for this. Like the idea of having a team of good but largely unheralded players. Sounds fun.
I was initially under the impression that we were going to exclude players who had impressive European Cup campaigns; for example almost all the very good players from teams who were never good enough to reach a World Cup like Wales, Belgium, even Portugal etc. Essentially, limit the selection to players who had very good league campaigns without ever succeeding internationally be it for club or country.
Is Gregoriak definately ok to take part himself? It'd be a shame if he couldn't having come up with idea.
Sounds ok either way. Again, might be interesting to get Gregoriak's take. You could make the stipulation being judged on league form rather than club form although perhaps not many players would be judged hugely differently. If we were adding another rule for this purpose maybe European Cup Final participants could be excluded? Overall I'm ok with it either way though.
Sounds completely fine, also think there should be a critera that can filter out some of the better players pre-1930 though.
Yeah I'm fine with that ... but I guess it lessens the chance to find any more members who want to participate. We're gonna see some **** players.
I'm sorry - too time-consuming for me. I'm leaving it to the experts to go ahead with this. You and Ianman are already doing a great job getting it started.
OK no problem. Although we can't see it now , on the History Group page you'd posted an enthusiastic overview so I thought it might be something you were keen on participating in yourself. Still, it's a good idea and if we get a few more to join in you'll probably enjoy seeing who gets drafted etc. Any thoughts about whether strictly league legends or club legends is best (based on your initial idea or after reconsidering)?
But I didn't have time before 2012 - I am still recovering from my participation in the All-Time Draft in 2006 and the Italy All-Time Draft that same year. I am in awe of you people whose hunger for All-Time drafting seems insatiable. The original idea was league legends. Players that are well known domestically but leave most people clueless once you cross the border. Players that did well in European Cups usually are also well-known outside of their respective domestic realm. Maybe one could just exclude players that at least once managed a place inside the Ballon d'Or Top 10 as an additional criterium (same with South America?). It shouldn't get too complicated. - no previously drafted players - no players inside Ballon d'Or Top 10 (+ SA equivalent) - no players that made it into a World Cup QF or Euro SF
Yeah seems reasonable as if they stood out that much in European or South American club competition they'd probably place in the top 10. Also, those lists should be easily available (hopefully for South American players of the year too and for before the 70's the previously drafted rule and World Cup rules ought to take out the most famous/notable players from SA anyway). It also takes out previously undrafted world superstars and players who stood out at World Cups etc but might've gone out in the 2nd round or something. Since 1995 we could just use the Balon D'or and World Player of the Year I guess? I'm sure lanman can sort out the full details. For the World Cups etc I'm ok with as above or as per what lanman posted on page 1 (maybe they are the same thing in effect - I haven't checked but maybe that's what you meant - however WC QF and Euro/Copa America Semi would be fine by me).
Perhaps actually just excluding 3 or 5 players from the South American Player of the Year rankings for each year might be better (I think they were based on domestic leagues and excluded players abroad didn't they?) - just a thought but I don't really mind. Also another thought - should we say that each drafter has to include players from multiple leagues (maybe at least 3 or 4)?
Sorry missed this before... if there was a better time for you during next year we could maybe do it then instead I guess (depending on lanman and the others). It's a bit annoying that our original conversations got deleted with the Soccer History Group really. Anyway so far we seem to have: cr7torossi KyleP PDG1978 schwuppe lanman? (hopefully there'd be no problem for you to take part in this as it's more like the All-Time Draft in which I just managed to pick a team too than a Sheep Draft). 3 more and we could give it a go?