Who's the greatest coach of all-time?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by dor02, Sep 19, 2004.

  1. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Who's the greatest coach of all-time? I reckon Pozzo is the best. No other coach has won 2 World Cups in a row.
     
  2. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Herbert Chapman, Bill Nicholson, Jock Stein, Hellenio Herrera, Ernst Happel, Bob Paisley, Bill Shankly, Brian Clough, Munoz, Fergie, Johan Cruyff, Giovanni Trappatoni, Fabio Capello, Marcello Lippi.
     
  3. herewego

    herewego Member

    Jun 1, 2004
    On national teams maybe Helmut Schön.

    WC 1966: 2nd
    WC 1970: 3rd
    EC 1972: 1st
    WC 1974: 1st
    EC 1976: 2nd
     
  4. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    I somehow managed to omit Rinus Michels from my list.
     
  5. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Amen to that.
     
  6. vivaelbolivar

    vivaelbolivar New Member

    Aug 21, 2003
    RFK & EL MADRIGAL
    the coach who took Bolivia to the world cup in 1994

    that in itself is an accomplisment considering we beat Brazil and Uruguay to get in
     
  7. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    Alex Ferguson has to be in there somewhere, the man's acheivement's even before he went ton Man Utd were incredible. The fact that he took a mid-table side to one of te most successfull and biggest club in the wordl cannot be overlooked.
     
  8. Kaushik

    Kaushik Member

    Jun 6, 2004
    Toronto
    No mention of Zagallo yet? That is absurd. I guess the best coach is Zagallo, followed by Pozzo.
     
  9. rivellino1

    rivellino1 New Member

    Jun 13, 2004
    New York City
    That is a stupid question because you have to deal with different eras. Pre-WWII or Post-WWII? The 70's? The 80's? The 60's? The 1890's? You must specify who was the best coach of a particular era.
     
  10. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003

    Zagallo's job was a piece of piss though. He had arguably the most talented group of individuals ever to pay the game.
     
  11. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Well said! He had the players. It wouldn't matter if Zagallo wasn't coach.
     
  12. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    You can rank overall. You're probably stuck so I'll help you.

    1920s: Hugo Meisl (also highly-rated in the 30s)
    1930s: Vittorio Pozzo (the greatest)
    1950s: Gustav Sebes
    1960s: Helenio Hererra
    1970s: Rinus Michels
    1980s: Valeri Lobanovski (highly underrated)
    1990s: Marcello Lippi
     
  13. TRICOLOR BRASIL

    Feb 5, 2004
    Brazil
  14. NewhamRed

    NewhamRed New Member

    Jul 13, 2004
    Nottingham, UK
    The man, no the legend who died today; Sir Brian Clough
     
  15. 655321

    655321 New Member

    Jul 21, 2002
    The Mission, SF
    Bob Paisley has to be in the top five. Won six league titles and three (count 'em) European Cups and he never bought big.

    That's three European Cups, folks...
     
  16. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You don't think that's the only time he ever coached a team do you?

    I won't even get into how much he changed the team from what João Saldanha had during the qualifiers.
     
  17. Spartak

    Spartak Member

    Nov 6, 1999
    Philly
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arrigo Sacchi needs to be mentioned here. Besides managing one of the greatest clubs sides ever in the late 80's/early 90's he also produced many good coaches. Almost the whole AC Milan squad that he managed have become good managers in their own right. Capello, Ancelotti, Van Basten, Rijkaard, Gullit, Tassotti, Baresi, Donadoni, etc. I suspect there will be some more who turn into good coaches(e.g. Maldini, Costacurta) in the near future.
     
  18. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    He was a great coach at AC Milan but he wouldn't be a no 1 considering his record with Italy. Italy's performance was based more on Baggio's skills than on Sacchi's tactics.
     
  19. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Good point. At the tornament it did look like a piece of cake but after the stupidity of Saldanha (dropping Pele among others), Zagallo did well to get all the good players back just before the tornament started. If Saldanha stayed on, they would have sent a crap team like in 1966, 74 and 78.
     
  20. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003

    Of course not, but that is what people are clearly basing it on. In my opinion Zagallo has no place in a thread like this.
     
  21. Kaushik

    Kaushik Member

    Jun 6, 2004
    Toronto
    Zagallo definitely belongs here as he is one of the greatest coaches of all time. No other coach has been successful at the highest level in football for over thirty years. In addition, forming a winning team out of 6-7 number 10s requires brilliance.

    Having great players in the team does not necessarily imply that the job of the coach is rendered insignificant. Tele Santana, Rinus Michels and the last two coaches of Real Madrid provide the necessary evidence for it. These coaches are good but to be the greatest one has to be a winner at the highest level. Hence, Zagallo followed by Pozzo should be named as the greatest coaches of all time. If Scolari wins another international tournament, he sould be mentioned along with Zagallo and Pozzo as football's greatest.
     
  22. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Absolutely correct. It's one thing to coach a team put together at almost unlimited cost or when you can have the pick of all the players from a great footballing country like Brazil, Italy or Germany.

    Clough took a 2nd division provivincial club, (Derby), in England and got them promoted into the English top flight. He then won the EPL equivalent with them in the next season having just been promoted. They got to the semi-finals of the EUFA cup in 1973.

    He then fell out with his directors, (mainly because he called them 'a bunch of nobodies' if memory serves), and resigned as manager of Derby at the end of 1973. He joined Nottingham Nottingham Forest, another 2nd division, provincial club in January 1975, are promoted (again), in 1977, winning the League Cup and the EPL equivalent in 1978. He then took them to 2 CL wins in succession the following 2 years.

    For those still thinking that this manager or that manager is better because they've won this cup or that cup ask yourself 2 questions.

    1. Can I name 3 or more players from the teams of the manager I think is the best ever.
    2. Can I name 3 or more players from the Nottingham Forest side that won the EPL and 2 successive CL finals. Frankly, can you think of one.

    THAT'S the difference.

    Almost any idiot can manage a team of stars to win a cup every so often but we're not talking about a team of stars; we're talking about a team... in fact 2 TEAMS... which almost nobody, (including English football supporters), can remember the names of.

    Derby and Nottingham Forest are presently lying 11th and 22nd in Div 2 or 'The Championship' as it's now called. That's probably about right for a team like them. That's about where they were when he found them.

    And if you're still not convinced then listen to the words of the great man himself when seaking about his own abilities...

    "I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one"
     
  23. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    I wouldn't rank Sebes as the greatest Hungarian coach - that would be Bela Guttman - successful as manager or coach in Hungary, Portugal, Brazil, Uruguay and Belgium (I believe he won Championships in four different countries). One of the pioneers of 4-2-4 (devised by Marton Bukovi - refined by Guttman), he brought the formation to South America and the wider world in general, but was not afraid to revert to the W-M as with Benfica as situations required.
     
  24. herewego

    herewego Member

    Jun 1, 2004
    Another great german clubteam coach:

    Udo Lattek

    Champions League: 1st: 1974 with Bayern Munich
    2nd: 1977 with Borussia Mönchengladbach
    2nd: 1987 with Bayern Munich

    European Cup Winners Cup: 1st 1982 with CF Barcelona

    UEFA Cup: 1st 1979 with Borussia Mönchengladbach

    6 x German Bundesliga Champion with Bayern

    2 x German Bundesliga Champion with Borussia Mönchengladbach

    3 x German Cup Winner with Bayern
     
  25. toonarmy44

    toonarmy44 Member

    Aug 28, 2002
    Tyne and Wear
    Brian Clough, the guy was a genius. R.I.P
     

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