Yanks Abroad FAQ

People off the top of my head that should be able to help draft this:

Dave Marino-Nachison
Panic
Buff

maybe a couple of others.

Also keep in mind that England and the rest of Europe differ in many ways so you might want to have subsections of that list.

 

To be honest, I've never really bothered learning this stuff... If I ever need help, someone has been able to give it quickly enough. So I guess someone else would have to do it...

If anyone has questions about the "Son of All..." list I'd be happy to answer them for the FAQ.

 

There is an inherent problem with this idea (and I think one of the many sources of general confusion) and that is that FIFA, the British Gouvernment, the US Government, the EU, EEA, FA, UEFA don't even follow their own rules most of the time. There are exceptions to EVERYTHING at any given time. I'm afraid a "master list" thread would be longer than the "Son of YA's" sticky. It's just a world of shifting sands (and the reason I should have become and immigration lawyer like my mum begged - but that's just 'cause she wanted to try out for Bolton.)

 

The situation regarding player eligibility is quite fluid at times. See this link from today's news. It's not clear exactly who is affected, but it certainly covers a broad range of countries of origin.

http://www.sportserver.com/soccer/international/general/story/894294p-6230563c.html

For additional info, see the two articles at this site:

http://www.fifpro.org/

 

Here's one I've always been confused about:

Is it possible to obtain a passport to a country without becoming a citizen?

 

Depends on the country, I think. Some have a clause in the oath of citizenship requiring the renouncement of prior allegiances, others don't. Of course, if you automatically qualify for citizenship, such as being born in that country, the oath should not be necessary.

 

FAQ

I generally lurk but I'll mention my favorite YA pet peeve. The UK work permit isn't a soccer specific issue. If you want to work (teacher, soccer player, archivist, engineer, etc) in the UK there are strict work permit regs for non-EEU folks.

http://www.workpermits.gov.uk/default.asp?pageid=1558

 

It is even more "interesting" than that. For instance, if you take your US oath you foreswear all allegiances to foreign princes and potentates ya-da, ya-da. But many monarchist countries, such as Canada, only recognize such renunciation if it is in writing, so they let you keep your citizenship even though you've technically given it up.

Some countries, (such as Tonga, if memory serves,) have at times sold passports that don't confer full citizenship. There's all sorts of interesting things ou there.

 

I got this info from the UK embassy, so I think we will be able to take it as the final word.

CRITERIA:
A player must have played for his country in at least 75% of its competitive 'A' team matches he was available for selection, during the two years preceding the date of the application; and,

The player's country must be at or above 70th place in the official FIFA world rankings when averaged over the two years preceding the date of the application. (I haven't seen this posted)

COMPETITIVE 'A' TEAM MATCHES:
The following games can be considered under this category-

The definition of a competitive 'A' team international match is a: World Cup Finals game; World Cup Qualifying group game

Football Association confederation tournament game, for example: The FIFA Confederations Cup; The UEFA European Championships and Qualifiers; The African Cup of Nations and Qualifiers; The Asia Nations Cup and Qualifiers; The CONCACAF Gold Cup; The CONCACAF The Copa Caribe; The CONMEBOL Copa America; The OFC Nations Cup and The UNCAF Nations Cup

INJURIES:
Regarding injuries...

Exclusion from selection for international matches due to injury or suspension will be taken into consideration when applying the criteria. Clubs should submit supporting evidence in such cases stipulating the games the player has missed.

It should be noted that where a player is listed as on the substitutes bench, he will not be considered as injured when reaching a decision on a work permit application.


And finally, LENGTH OF ISSUE

First Applications: the work permit will issued for the period of the player's contract up to a maximum of five years.

Subsequent Applications: if a club wishes to retain the services of a player, they should submit a new application before the work permit expires. If the work permit criteria are satisfied a permit will be issued for the period of a player's contract up to a maximum of five years.

Change of Employer (transfer of player): a club wishing to sign a player from another British club must submit an application to Work Permits (UK). If the work permit criteria are satisfied a permit will be issued for the period of a player's contract up to a maximum of five years.


I hope this is helpful to everyone; if not, I apologize for taking up too much space

 

This is interesting: as I understand it, Earnie Stewart has dual citizenship (US and Netherlands). According to the Dutch embassy, you must renounce prior citizenship to become naturalized. Can anyone help me out here?

 

Also thought this might help on the dual-citizenship thing: (this is from the US State Department)

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.
A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.

Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad.

 

I apologize if I stepped on your toes here--just thought it might be helpful. You can get all this info at the State Departments website. For UK work permit rules, check out http://www.workpermits.gov.uk/default.asp?PageId=1591. As for the dual citizenship, use this link: http://travel.state.gov/dualnationality.html. Again, I apologize if you wanted to get this stuff compiled yourself.

 

Well, the Dutch government has not caught him yet. Anyway, Stewart was not a naturalized Dutch citizen. He was born a Dutch citizen.

Do you know whether he would lose his Dutch citizenship if he finds to be a dual citizenship?

 

All of this is of course subject to an appeals process, where youth international appearances have also been accepted in various cases (Baros at Liverpool, Olsen at Forest).

The length of issue part of your post is very imformative, as it provides insight to some of the problems players like Kirovski, Lewis and Friedel have run into over the years.

As for Earnie, because he was born of Amercian parents, he is eligible for US citizenship. I believe he would need to establish his US citizenship prior to his 18th birthday if he wanted to maintain both. I guess he would have done that during his time in the US as a youth.

 

Great thread, my knowledge on the topic was purely practical: Once you start a trip on a passport, it's always a good idea to finish the trip on the same. And never, ever, let anyone at customs see you pull out two different passports...
esp. since 9/11. Here's how I learned the thing, if it's helpful to anyone:
Essentially, the rule for getting a work permit is the same for soccer as it is for any other job: that you, or rather your proposed employer, have to be able to prove that no current citizen could perform the same task at the same level you could. Soccer just is easier to quantify than engineering because there are no elite national engineering teams.
The point is to stop a flood of unskilled labor that could hurt the national economy, but encourage a flow of highly skilled labor that will improve the economy. The EU deal messes that up a bit, as all current citizens in England now includes all EU citizens.