I read your post over there and I tend to agree in theory. However, the question is how much money we would be forced to give. Realistically, the major allocation would be enough, but what can Dallas do to coerce the League and DC into giving them extra cash? I think the League will decide what happens, not the teams.
I agree but I don't think it's a matter of coercion. As a matter of fairness I suspect MLS would arrange it this way. Let me explain ... Dallas now has two major allocations. That's a lot for one salary cap to absorb in one year. But if they can't pay for both major allocations right now then the Adu deal, from Dallas's perspective is terrible. But if DC United picks up all or a portion of the salary of one of Dallas's allocations then it becomes financially viable for Dallas to get two very high quality players. Add to that the fact that Adu doesn't even count against DC United's cap (P-40) and, well, it just kind of makes sense from a fairness perspective.
I was snowed in today ... Hence the update below. Coach We ain't got one. Anarchy reigns. Roster :: 24 Total :: 23 Currently (See + and * below.) Code: [size=2] Perea, Trevor DEV Adu, Freddy (+) P-40 Barclay, Devin P-40 Carroll, Brian P-40 Eskandarian, Alecko P-40 Stokes, David P-40 Convey, Bobby SEN Namoff, Bryan SEN Olsen, Ben SEN Petke, Mike SEN Prideaux, Brandon SEN Quaranta, Santino SEN Stewart, Earnie SEN Rimando, Nick SEN Warren, Doug SEN Cerritos, Ronald SEN, GC Etcheverry, Marco (*) SEN, GC Kovalenko, Dema SEN, GC Martins, Thiago SEN, GC Reyes, Milton SEN, DISC, GC Quintanilla, Eliseo SEN, DISC, T-I Nelsen, Ryan SEN, S-I Alegria, Jose SEN, T-I [/size] Roster Key SEN = Counts against the senior roster (18 players max) DEV = Developmental (DEV + P-40 = 6 players min & max) P-40 = Project 40 (P-40 + DEV = 6 players min & max) DISC = Discovery Player (4 players max, may add max 2 per year) GC = Green Card S-I = Senior International (3 players max) T-I = Transitional International (20 players max league wide) (+) :: Freddy Adu's contract stipulates that he play for DC United. So although he won't officially be on the roster until the draft (see below) I thought it made sense to list him anyway. (*) :: It's believed that Etchverry's contract expires as of January 2004. Word from Steven Goff is that they're letting the contract expire and the next coach will make the final decision on whether to re-sign him or not. The chances of Etcheverry being back next year are very low. However, he's still technically on the roster for the moment and so appears on this list. Draft Picks --1st Round-- #1: From Dallas for "future considerations" - read a major allocation. This pick will be used to acquire Freddy Adu according to the terms of his contract which stipulate his playing for DC United. #4: To Dallas for Cerritos --2nd Round-- #14: To Chicago for Stoitchkov --3rd Round-- #24: To KC for Quintanilla --4th Round-- #34 --5th Round-- #44 --6th Round-- #54: To Dallas for Cerritos Allocations We have no allocations. Assuming Etcheverry retires we will probably get one but it will almost certainly (95% positive) go to Dallas for the future considerations we owe them for the number one overall draft pick. Discoveries We currently have two on the roster and we can get two more next year. However, there is some debate about how much money we have available to us to use towards transfer fees etc. See page 2 of this thread. These are the basics as best as I can determine. Teams have $100K to use as transfer fees on discovery players. A team can use up to three years worth of fees at one time (a special discovery). Unspent money is lost. DCUnited used 2002, 2003 and 2004's transfer money to acquire Reyes. Whether we now have the 2005 and 2006 money available is uncertain. However, on occasion alternative arrangements can be made. Q2 was a special discovery and playing a friendly against his old team paid a portion of his transfer fee. Suffice it to say nobody really knows how these work or what our current discovery situation is. Useful Links DC United Transactions: http://www.dcunited.com/index.cfm?section=tradition&cont_id=94152 MLS Regulations: http://www.mlsnet.com/about/regulations/ DC United Roster (DCUnited.com): http://www.dcunited.com/index.cfm?section=team&cont_id=roster&roster_id=15 DC United Roster (MLSNet): http://www.mlsnet.com/teams/rosters/dc.html ... Again, I will update this post as more information becomes available and as corrections and additions are made.
I nominate this thread as both the most fascinating/interesting/thoughtful of the year and as the most hilarious. So many folks who know so much about the MLS rules!! Wow! Cynics might say -- get a life. Nonetheless, kudos all around for useful information. At the same time, what a screwed up system?!? It took 70+ posts (thoughtful, informed posts) to make any sense of DC's situation. Does anyone need any more persuasion that coaching in MLS is not like coaching in Europe?
FWIW, Dallas should have lots of cap room. Remember, they ended the season by trading DCU cap room (which they now get back--and that's the second consecutive season they had excess cap). Since then they've renounced or not signed or retired a couple of players (including Morrow and Deering who were both making very good money). I'm sure there will be more turnover given Clarke is the new head-man. Plus, don't know how realistic the rumor is (of Jovan Kirovski) but if they use an allocation on a USMNT player (Berhalter? Enoch? Gooch?) then it extends their cap. Frankly, I would not be surprised to see MLS modify the allocation rules again this year. Last year, they allowed teams to apply the allocation against the cap if the player came on a free transfer (thus, we saved money on Earnie Stewart). Even if they didn't get a USMNT player, Dallas could get a foreign vet on a free transfer and (if the rule is extended) then apply the allocation to him. That is a major plus if it legal. So I really don't think Dallas will have a problem finding cap room for 2 allocations.
... The Most Arcane Thread Ever ... :: Updated :: January 30, 2004 :: Coach Head Coach :: Peter Nowak Assistant Coach :: Tom Soehn Assistant Coach :: Mark Simpson Roster :: 24 Maximum :: 23 Currently Code: [size=2] Ara, Kevin DRAFT Gros, Joshua DRAFT Hudson, Kevin DRAFT Adu, Freddy P-40 Carroll, Brian P-40 Eskandarian, Alecko P-40 Stokes, David P-40 Convey, Bobby SEN Namoff, Bryan SEN Olsen, Ben SEN Petke, Mike SEN Prideaux, Brandon SEN Quaranta, Santino SEN Stewart, Earnie SEN Rimando, Nick SEN Warren, Doug SEN Cerritos, Ronald SEN, GC Kovalenko, Dema SEN, GC Martins, Thiago SEN, GC Reyes, Milton SEN, DISC, GC Quintanilla, Eliseo SEN, DISC, T-I Alegria, Jose SEN, T-I Nelsen, Ryan SEN, S-I [/size] Roster Key DRAFT = Acquired at the 2004 MLS SuperDraft but not P-40. DEV = Developmental (DEV + P-40 = 6 players min & max) P-40 = Project 40 (P-40 + DEV = 6 players min & max) DISC = Discovery Player (4 players max, may add max 2 per year) GC = Green Card SEN = Counts against the senior roster (18 players max) S-I = Senior International (3 players max) T-I = Transitional International (20 players max league wide) Note 1 :: Currently we have 23 players, 4 are roster protected, 16 are senior team and 3 are draftees. Note 2 :: We have space for 2 more roster protected players, and 2 more senior players. Draft Picks :: 2004 :: 1st Pick :: Freddy Adu :: Pick from Dallas for "future considerations" - read a major allocation. 24th Pick :: Kevin Ara :: Pick from KC for 2005 2nd and 3rd round natural picks. See note. 34th Pick :: Joshua Gros 44th Pick :: Kevin Hudson Note :: The 24th pick was originally our natural pick. It was dealt to KC as part of the deal that brought Quintanilla to DC United. The pick was then traded back to us on draft day for our natural 2nd and 3rd round picks in 2005. Hence, it's now effectively as if the Quintanilla deal was for the 2005 2nd and 3rd round picks. :: 2005 :: 1st Round :: Natural pick. 2nd Round :: To KC for 2004 24th pick (Ara). 3rd Round :: To KC for 2004 24th pick (Ara). 4th Round :: Natural pick. 5th Round :: Natural pick. 6th Round :: Natural pick. Note :: See 2004 draft note above. Allocations Officially we have no allocations. It’s presumed that we will get one for Etcheverry, but it will almost certainly (95% positive) go to Dallas for the future considerations we owe them for the number one overall draft pick. Discoveries We currently have two on the roster and we can get up to three more next year. There appears to have been a change in the discovery regulations for the upcoming season. I've detailed what I know here. In brief, there are several reports suggesting the number of discoveries a team can make per year has increased by one to three. As of yet there's no information to my knowledge about whether the maximum number of discovery players on any single team has increased. (I wouldn't be surprised if it did.) If it's still at four then we still can only add two. If it's been increased at all then we can add three. Currently Reyes and Q2 are the only discovery players on our roster. In addition, there's no information yet about whether the cash allowance for fees etc. has been increased. As it was there was considerable debate about how much money we had available to us to use towards transfer fees etc. See page 2 of this thread. Going on the old information, these are the basics as best as I can determine. Teams have $100K to use as transfer fees on discovery players. A team can use up to three years worth of fees at one time (a special discovery). Unspent money is lost. DCUnited used 2002, 2003 and 2004's transfer money to acquire Reyes. Whether we now have the 2005 and 2006 money available is uncertain. However, on occasion alternative arrangements can be made. Q2 was a special discovery and playing a friendly against his old team paid a portion of his transfer fee. Suffice it to say nobody really knows how these work or what our current discovery situation is. Future Considerations Note 1 :: The Columbus Crew owe DC United future considerations for Devin Barclay. Note 2 :: Future considerations owed by DC United to Dallas for 2003 SuperDraft first overall pick. Useful Links DC United Transactions: http://www.dcunited.com/index.cfm?section=tradition&cont_id=94152 MLS Regulations: http://www.mlsnet.com/about/regulations/ DC United Roster (DCUnited.com): http://www.dcunited.com/index.cfm?section=team&cont_id=roster&roster_id=15 DC United Roster (MLSNet): http://www.mlsnet.com/teams/rosters/dc.html Key Dates on the 2004 MLS Competition Calendar: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=2070423#post2070423 ... I will update this post/thread as more information becomes available and as corrections and additions are made.
Well, I'll ask again. Does anyone know: 1) for those players not selected in the draft, how can a team pick those of interest? supplemental draft(?) 2) for those players not in the draft, ie. A-League players (Testo), are they now available as discoveries? Andrulis, I believe, said at the draft that discovery players can be signed as of Monday and he had already turned in his request list.
Do you mean the players who were draft elligible but weren't picked? For instance, AJ Herrera was draft elligible but wasn't picked. Is the question essentially how DC United could sign him? Or do you mean someone who wasn't draft elligible but isn't under contract anywhere. I don't know the answer to either question for certain (although I'm pretty sure the latter is just a discovery - see below) but I thought I'd at least try to clarify the questions because both are worth asking about. Not 100% sure but I think so. It's quite clearly a discovery if a transfer fee is involved. And if I recall the Lalas to LA signing correctly that too was a discovery even though no fee was involved. The Argentinians to the Metros loan was also a discovery. I guess what that all means is if you're not in a draft or an ad-hoc lottery, and you're not an allocation then you must be a discovery. But of course JoeW will come along and tell me I've got it all wrong. By the way, my question is how and what the draftees are getting paid. I mean they've gotta have at least a minimal stipend, right?
I would think that a player who was draft eligible but not drafted could get invited to a teams' training camp and would be a "free agent". Free in that he doesn't have a team. In order to be part of the draft doesn't a player need to sign with the league?
-- edit - correction -- NO. Some do and others don't. But I don't know exactly what that contract obliges you to. And I don't know whether signing that contract enables other teams to pick you up if nobody takes you at the draft. See below for more ...
Is that a new rule that players have to sign in order to be part of the draft? Aren't there tons of examples of guys being drafted that ended up not signing with the league or coming back after a year trying out somewhere else? My understanding of the contract that is signed by players before entering the draft is that it is contingent on them being drafted. If they are not drafted, then it is void and they're free to try and get on a roster through tryouts, or whatever. Just curious, as MLS rules are always a bit hard to fathom from time to time.
I'm sure it's contingent. It's just that nobody really knows the details. I do know, for instance, that Wingert and Nunez signed a contract to be in the draft. Beyond that or what that means I've no idea. Also, some players are drafted but haven't signed anything - Kante quite famously on this board. It's all pretty tough to get a handle on.
Yep. MLS rules are a bit like that quote about helicopters aren't they? They just seem to be a loose association of parts that are generally traveling in the same direction.
Some players (basically, the P-40 ones) signed with the league. If, for some reason, such a player wasn't drafted this time around, MLS usually has another draft before the season (for instance, Ian Joy signed with the league, wasn't drafted in the first drafted, than got picked by Columbus in the second go-around). Also, even if a player is completely "free" (ie: college senior, didn't sign with the league), if multiple teams end up showing some interest than there may be a lottery. Certainly the league has done that with veteran players who were without a team and unsigned to MLS (such as Digi or Ali Curtis--who I think was actually in a waiver draft).
This is beyond silly. Frankly, since other discussions and the publishing of the salary numbers lead me in this direction, I think we're stuck. What you see is what you get. The question is: Is this group going to be better than last year's? Quite possibly, if they can stay healthy. Other than that, we have NO room to sign players, discovery, draft or otherwise, absent a significant cut--namely and to wit, Stewart--or a bump in the unspecified (or at least, rather nebulous) salary cap. What burns me the worst, is the guys I would unquestionably cut in a heartbeat--Perea and Barclay--don't count against the cap. If any of our draftees would sign developmental contracts, those two would be out of a job faster than you can say "unemployment line". We'll see. Unfortunately, we're looking at burning several players just to get to a point where we can use our "discovery slots", whether we have the cap space on hand or not. Dump 'em all, says I! Alegria, Q1, Q2, Perea, Barclay, hell, the whole bottom half of the roster except Namoff and Warren. Actually, I think that IS the whole bottom half of our roster, unless you throw in Martins--who's a steal at the salary number he's purpoorted to make. Rules? We don't need no steenkin' rules! Thees ees MLS!
Perea waived :: http://www.dcunited.com/index.cfm?section=main&cont_id=225114 Updated accordingly :: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=2033053#post2033053
Courtesy of Monster ... The number of discovery picks each team is afforded on a yearly basis has been increased to three. Here's his post And a newspaper quote: I don't know if the maximum number of discovery players on any single team has increased. (I wouldn't be surprised if it did.) If it's still at four then we still can only add two. If it's been increased at all then we can add three. Currently Reyes and Q2 are the only discovery players on our roster. In addition, I don't know if they increased the cash available for fees etc. too.