Re: Re: ay caramba... Why is it that most people think that "American," when you use the word means "White Guy," and that if Ken Bates and Roman Abramovich decided to start up Chelsea-USA in Poughkeepsie, NY, we wouldn't have this thread?
Re: Re: Re: ay caramba...       On that note, it's rather strange that most Mexicans and Central Americans call U.S. citizens "Norteamericanos", especially considering that Mexico and the Central American nations are all geographically part of North America (basically, any land in the Western Hemisphere north of the Panama-Columbia border is geographically North America). -G
1. Mexican-Americans aren't foreigners. 2. Mexico -- and Canada -- are neighbors. they really aren't that foreign to us. 3. Rules are open to change; even the Constitution gets ammended from time to time. 3. MLS needs all the fans it can muster. Welcome, Chivas USA -- or whatever it's called -- and to hell with sports writers who claim we are caving to "foreigners." These guys have never been fans of soccer, and never will be. But if MLS becomes popular and the stadiums fill, the rest is irrelevant.
Re: Re: ay caramba... Let me see if I understand you correctly. You object to a Mexican citizen putting his money into an MLS team in the US, and operating under MLS rules. But you're cool with putting an MLS club in Canuckland. And this has nothing to do with race. I just want to be sure I'm clear on everything.
Re: Re: Re: ay caramba... Yes, I believe you're clear on everything. Someone please cast this sentence in stone.
Re: Re: Re: ay caramba... I don't think that way. Why do you? Also, please properly construct sentences. Yours are difficult to comprehend. I am getting quite tired of people stamping me as racist. I am not, nor was I ever. I never said I hated Mexicans, I never said I hated anyone who was not white. People are putting words in my mouth, and that, my friends, is just wrong. Again...to clarify...I do not want foreign investment in MLS; not English, not Mexican, not Cameroonian, not Swazilandian. I want American investers. I don't care if they are brown, black, yellow, or purple.
I don't quite understand what your talkign about here. There foreigners all over the place in baseball. Cubans Mexicans etc. Do you see it hurting baseball? Did you know one of "Americas greatest baseball players was actually of Croatian decent?" Roger Maris was a Croatian American that was very popular. I see no problem whatsoever with MLS Chivas. In fact I welcome it with open arms since it may knock down some of the animosity some mexican fans have to MLS. It could be just the thing this league needs for us to be a massive league in the future. Maybe even lead to a massive fusion with MLS and MFL one day into a massive superleague. Man oh man!!!
"American" investors have had over 30 years opportunity to invest in NASL, start up after they left off, or get on board w/ MLS. You snooze, you lose. And goddamn have american business and media snoozed. F' em. Uh, should we tell St. Phil to get lost b/c he's a foreigner? And who is this "ourselves"? Who is this "us"? Wouldn't that be the Latinos, the largest consumer group that actually watches soccer? Have you not noticed that if you take away the Latinos from MLS stands, the attendances would hover just a tad above WUSA? who is this "us"? It is white, suburban America, which is reflected in the USMNT roster and its style of play. Sure, many latinos, but most are suburbanites. What about the barrios? What Chivas of San Diego WILL do is nurture the inner-city, the barrios, so that ALL of the USA, no matter the social class, will be represented in soccer in this country.
Re: Re: Re: Re: ay caramba... Actually, anyone who can read will be pretty clear that I do not think that way. I left out a comma. Here's what I should've said: Why is it that most people think that "American," when you use the word, means "White Guy," and that if Ken Bates and Roman Abramovich decided to start up Chelsea-USA in Poughkeepsie, NY, we wouldn't have this thread? Some samples that might give people this idea: 1) I do not want a team full of foreigners 2) This is America, damn it. 3) , I did not want an investor coming in and changing the league by bringing in an all Mexican club that will horribly alter the fan base and availability of roster spots for Americans. AND YES, MLS IS SUPPOSSED TO DEVELOP AMERICAN TALENT, YOU DIP SHITES! And, my personal favorite, which has already been commented upon: 4) Tulsa, Rochester, Philly, Toronto, just to name a few. I think there are a lot of Chelsea fans who are mightly glad that their team's board of directors doesn't think like you do.
Re: Re: Re: Re: ay caramba... Correction: From Patagonia to Colombia --no Columbia-- Panama border: SOUTH AMERICA. From Colombia-Panama border to el Suchiate (Chiapas, Mexico): CENTRAL AMERICA From Suchiate (border Guatemala with Chiapas, Mexico) to Alska: NORTH AMERICA. That comes from my fourth grade geography lessons. Blessed be Dona Maria Jimenez...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ay caramba... In my 5th-grade geography class, we learned that there are 7 continents, two of them lie entirely in the western hemisphere: North America and South America. North America starts at the border of Columbia-Panama border. The Central America region is considered a part of the North American continent.
I have a great idea. Let's try this experiment and if Chivas USA does not work, just contract them or eliminate them or whatever and that is the end of the argumente. MLS will not die if we get contract Chivas.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ay caramba... I ephed up when I mentioned Toronto, I must concede. It was in response to a question regarding other possible MLS expansion sites. I never said I agreed with any of the choices, I just said they were options. However, I can see how someone might say I was being anti-Mexico, and not Anti-Canada. I should have made my statements clearer. Sorry.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ay caramba... We are not talking about continents. We are talking about our western hemisphere divided in three very defined regions: North, Central and South.
galperin, I wonder if you disagree with foreign investment in industries other than sports? I wonder how free of foreign investment the company you work for is? Will you be shocked to find out that many of the products you buy are from companies that are backed by foreign investors? Did you know that foreigners can buy stock on the New York Stock exchange? *faints in horror* Did you know that a Japanese company named Dentsu invests in MLS, and has now for a number of years? You better stop supporting MLS right now before your head explodes. How about AEG, the company that currently runs DC United, your team? Did you know that they own many sports teams in other countries? Do you feel nauseous yet? It sure is sad how AEG is keeping all those European countries from developing their hockey players. So, is your gripe really about investment? I have my doubts. Just come out and say you will hate a Chivas MLS team, and stop trying to justify your hatred with some kind of American-soccer-is-doomed scenario. We know where your hatred comes from. - Paul
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ay caramba... Goodsport's original point was that it is ironic that Central Americans and Mexicans refer to US citizens as North Americans when they themselves are technically North Americans too. They do reside on the North American continent too, don't they? Anyways, this geography discussion is getting us nowhere; it is all semantics. What was the original topic of this thread again? Is MLS Chivas good for MLS? Under the right circumstances, yes. Follow the same rules as all other MLS teams and I have no problem with the infusion of new cash into the league. Vergara could easily have his desired Hispanic theme for the team by picking wisely his senior international, transitional international and developmental players.
Here's my $.02: If Vergara want to fund a club in MLS, and if he agrees to abide by MLS rules and regs, then I say more power to him. His money spends just as well as anybody else's. And if we get to see some either up-and-coming or established Mexican stars who complement the Americans on the team, then so much the better. But I'd want to see to it that he plays by the rules. Personally, I wish/hope they'd call it something besides Chivas, because it does make it sound like a farm team for the Mexican club, IMO. Of course, Chivas is way better than Burn, Clash, Mutiny, etc. But something like Waves, Sails, Seals, Riptide, or Surf (yeah, I know, but even singular-plural-noun-verbs give a connection to the city, e.g. Orlando Magic and Miami Heat), would be a better identifier to the city of San Diego than Chivas. But hey, nobody asked me, and I'm sure I won't be asked to sit on the naming committee.
This is insane. Soccer is a sport that is played all across the world by every type of person imaginable. yet, here we are discussing whether or not in the USA, the land of opportunity, we should deny someone a soccer franchise because he is Mexican? No, i'm not Mexican, so i don't have a stake in this convo like that, but we really need to check ourselves on this one. Soccer in the US is still on a precarious perch right now. Here is someone who is willing to invest tons of money to start a new team in a new market, and all we are focused on is his opening day lineup? Garber has already stated that he will play by the same rules as everyone else. as long as that happens, case closed. How can we be upset that Latinos might actually (gasp) ...... OWN a team, and not show up at the games!!! These other groups are the REASON why the league has stayed afloat and now we wish to excommunicate them because they dare become ownership. I have to agree that if Abramowich had been knocking on the door for a franchise, we wouldn't be hearing all of this talk about "foreign" investors. I'm sorry, but I know what this argument smells like to me .......... and the odor is putrid.
There is no hatred. Never has been, never will be. Again, people are putting words in my mouth. To be honest, I am sick of it. I thought starting this thread was a good way to get people's thoughts on MLS Chivas. What I got was a bunch of people, who no absolutely nothing about me, calling me racist. To bad there are not more intelligent people on BS.
Rochester?: owner (frank duross) can't afford 10 million dollars to go into MLS. Philly? no owner and the fact that (Temple signed a deal using Saturdays at Lincoln field) Tulsa? NO STADIUM (there was an initiative that was passed for city development and the SSS part was scrapped out) Anymore expansion cannidate? Seattle? who will be the owner? Miami? SSS yes, fan base, no Tampa? yeah right Houston? WOW, the owner is so interested that he is dying to have a MLS team. Portland? no owner, no stadium Cleveland? maybe St. Louis? owner? no stadium? no anyone I left of? Why is this so wrong for a Mexican billionaire to invest in a MLS team following MLS guidelines/rules like every other owner? (according to people that know the stuff, interviews with MLS people done by Bergin and others, VERGERA will follow MLS rules). p.s. where is Mike Segroves when you need him to lay some smackdown on people?
I agree with the 1st post completly. However in the 4th statement " do not want a team full of foreigners. We need to establish American players, not anybody elses players. I do not want a team here in the US that might use a foreign language as its primary language. This is America, damn it." That last sentence really displays our "American" ignorance and how we should look at ourselves form the outside-in instead. "This is America, dam it" hah, hah. Did you ever think why this slang name for USA ever came about??? Heck this country is Untied States OF America... meaning the entire new world. Its not the United States-America. From the outside-in many proper "Americans" from south or north of the USA might be rather confused at such a statement with such strong negativity yet possibly supporting ??? America..Club America of Mexico, America...De Cali(Colombia) or some other American Club outside the United States.
Why does everyone act like San Diego is full of Mexicans and has nothing else there. Yeah there are a lot of them here but there are also a lot of "gringos". Isn't that what the league wants anyway? I think it would accomplish more because everyone knows that latinos already love soccer (typically....)