http://www.fifa.com/en/laws/Laws12_01.htm "A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following four offences: - handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area). " The only other mention of handling the ball is under "Sending-off Offences" and refers to denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity.
You're all arguing a moot point. We need to take this to a more basic, tree-falling-in-the-woods level. If the referee is 4 foot-nothing, AND he's 40 yards BEHIND the play, Aleko might as well have punched Jimmy - it wasn't seen. If a foul is commited and there's nobody around to call it, is it really a foul?
Where was Kermit Quisenberry? - But anyway. Bad breaks happen. We had half an hour of 11 v 10 to get back one goal, and we couldn't do it. Congrats to DC.
Don't forget that not only is Kennedy only nut-high, he was in black and red too. It was like playing a certain game in Mexico where the other team provided the refs.
I organized the SE trip - this is how we got that section. Yeah, I patted our club on the back a little bit, but that recap is basically how it happened. Congrats on a great season and on the USOC title, and condolences on the loss. I've been there in person for tough losses with controversial plays going against my team (1998), and I know that it hurts. As I told Sam on Saturday night, I respect your players (esp. Zavagnin, Meola, and Klein) and coach a lot and just couldn't work up the hate that I would have had for a big match against the Metros or Galaxy. Your supporters are, for the most part, a class bunch, and your city has great BBQ. I hope you finish a strong second in the East next year
You go beyond being a sore loser. A yellow card for an unintentional hand ball? Eskandarian was just throwing his body in the way of the ball and it ball to hand not hand to ball. I still think it should have been called a hand ball and play stopped. But to blame the entire game on that call is ridiculous. DC controlling the game and if DC continued to control the game there's no reason to think they wouldn't have scored again and won without the controversial second goal. Asking for a yellow card on Esky for "cleating" Bo is weak. Bo didn't have possession of the ball yet and Esky went for the ball. It was not intentional and Bo was making a meal of it. DC was the better team and even with a man advantage for over thirty minutes and KC couldn't get a goal. Are you seriously complaining about wasting time through possession? Give me a break, can you think of anything else to whine about? I think most people wouldn't consider holding on to the ball while you're a man down as pathetic but rather smart. What's wrong with taking the ball to the flags while you're up in a game, I'm sure every team in MLS including KC has done it a few times this year. Shame on DC for their evil time wasting tactics, passing the ball to each other along the sidelines and taking the ball to the corner flags. I have the utmost respect for most of KC fans. Most of you have been graceful about the game I don't fault you at all for being upset about the non hand ball call. Even with the call going against you, most of you were man enough to admit that DC was the better team on the day and had the better of play through out the game. We know what its like to have a call go against you in an MLS Cup final (98 against Chicago). You had a great season and won the US Open Cup. I think winning the US Open Cup is a great accomplishment and should be valued up there with the MLS Cup. Hopefully both teams can make strong runs in the Champions Cup. With the return of injured players, preki, klein, and the other guys I forgot, I'm sure you'll be even stronger next season.
I didn't get back until this morning so I'm trying to get caught up on all of the many posts. I thought Esky should have been called for a handball. Did it change the game? Who could possibly know. Esky did well to keep on playing. Congrats to DC on the win. I can't say anything bad about any of the DCU, LAG, or any other fans we met this weekend. All in all, a pretty good bunch of folks. I'm disappointed we didn't play better and gutted that we didn't win. I'm still glad I made the trip. The HDC is awsome. Sigi was right, you've got to see that place. What a great venue for soccer. Also congrats to our boys for a great season. The USOC was icing on the cake. Back in March with Preki and Igor out, missing Klein and Meola for a large portion of the season, who'd have thought we'd be playing in this game? Congrats to all of the Wizard fans who made the trip. We didn't have as many as DCU but we were well represented. I know I'm rambling but I operating on 1 hr of sleep after the red-eye.
As your DCU compatriot Superdave and I have pointed out many times -- All handball infractions are intentional. You can't stop play for a handball if you don't think it was intentional. Why were his hands up? He wasn't trying to clear room against his opponent for a header. He was trying to make himself bigger. I just personally thought Eskandarian knew exactly what he was doing. As for me being a sore loser, Thanks. Hope you enjoy your tainted win. Maybe instead of a star on your jersey you can put an asterisk.
A handball, however, is never a yellow card infraction. It's either an ordinary foul, or a straight red.
Not true. Yellows can be given at anytime for unsporting behavior, and you will see this especially if an offensive player uses his hand to score a goal.
To the fans of both teams : ENOUGH NOW!!! The Wizards fans, myself included, will more than likely have a understanably different view of the MLS cup game. We are happy that we made it to the finals, but are bummed out at how the final played out. Every fan(short for fanatic) aways expects his/her team to win, and when that doesn't happen, yes people will be upset. This thread is our chance to vent our joy/frustrations. That's why it is under the heading of MLS: Teams > Kansas City Wizards. To the DC United fans : Congratulations. Your team played like they wanted the game more than our team. Sometimes a team seem to be destined to win, getting the lucky breaks and taking advantage of the opponets mis-opportunities. You are welcome to read our posts and make one of your own. Just let us have some time to obsorb the season, and the Cup game, without a lot of trash talking. Just as the Wizards fans have a slanted view of the game, so do you. You also have your own threads to voice your joy on the Championship team/game. Remember that the game is played/refed by humans, and all humans make mistakes. There is little chance anytime soon that you will be able to get fans of both teams to agree to what happened. Then let's agree to disagree and make plans to meet next year to see which team will triumph over the other. This season is over. Once again Congratulations DC and you will have a even bigger target on your backs next season.
Well, all right, but that's more than a step removed from what we saw here. You'd lose your job tossing out 'unsporting behavior' yellows for such trifles. You said 'a yellow for intentional handball,' but intentional handball's not a yellow. It's just an ordinary infraction.
Ok close this thread please. It's basically two Wizards fan arguing intent symantics with about 4 DC fans. Really everyone it's so 5 minutes ago now. The spilled milk has now rotted and dried up on the floor. If you want to continue please for the sake of the rest of us either do it PM's or maybe in the "handball" thread. I for one believe that your team should always play good enough so that one call not in your favor should not cost you the game. Jimmy got cute, and Alecko is an opportunist and it played to DC's favor in the end. There were 97 other minutes of opportunity to play beyond the effect of a 50/50 call not in our favor. The Wizards simply fell short of that. DC deservedly wins. Let's move on.
Attention: Stan, Dave, and Inquistor - please leave the Wizards forum. You're doing nothing here. We're feeling grief for our loss. Not yours. This is the Wizards forum. You want to debate or correct us? Take it to the Referee or MLS or DC forums. Don't come into our house and tell us that the carpet clashes with the wallpaper. At least not this week. Come back in a month. It's not always about right and wrong. Sometimes its about decorum.
I'm really not trying to rehatch this argument (though the angle of the Esky handball shown in the US-Jamaica telecast reconfirmed my feelings), I just thought it was ironic that Oguchi Onyewu was given a yellow tonight for a handball that was nowhere near goal. It also was his second yellow and he was sent off.
I know Andy made the comment to DC fans, but if you wanna continue this, maybe you should take it to PMs, not being mean, but I'm personally ready to let the hand ball topic die
As am I. However, I don't know how any KC fan could've watched tonight's game only 3 days removed from the final and not been immediately reminded of it. I wasn't attacking anyone personally so if you don't want to read what I have to say, put me on your ignore list.
For any DC fan still listening, or any KC fan still willing to listien. This play was pretty simple. I won't be around to answer you're replies, so please, don't expect responses... Any ball played from the shoulder down that give advantage of play to player that played the ball with the shoulder down is a foul. Play stops, period. The refs missed a call, no questions asked. Do refs miss calls, sure. The all do. This was just a BIG call to miss. The play, really the goal, turned the game. A player gaining full on advantage toward goal one on one because the ball came off his arm is un-called for. I agree, the ball played Esky's arm. But that isn't what matters. What matters is that the ball hit an arm, went in a direction off that arm the gave advantage to the person's whose arm it hit and caused a goal. If/when the handball (even incidental) give an advantage, it is automatically a foul. Does any of this team DC doesn't win? I don't know. But to so such a call overlooked in a Cup Final really pisses me off!
Re: Kc/dc [R] Thank you for coming up with a fantastic response so I could save my clever writing for damn term papers.
I have some pictures from the weekend. Sample below. PM me if you want the link to the Snapfish album online (no charge to look, and you can order prints if you want 'em).
If you're so sure you're right, post this question on the referees forum. You'll learn that you're not right. Advantage is irrelevant. Yes, the referee missed the call (IMO) because Esky's arm was not in a natural position, thus it constituted deliberate handling. It wasn't a 100% call. It was probably an 80% call...you'd see handling called 80% of the time. Again, if you're so sure, ask at the referees forum. It's a great place to learn the laws and proper interpretations. As a side note, I find it absolutely astonishing that soccer fans would misunderstand the fundamental rule of the game, the rule that does the most to separate soccer from every other sport. And so many of those fans are completely sure they're right. Here's a headstart. I got all this from just one thread. https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2057838&postcount=2 https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2058047&postcount=5 Now, he's talking here about whether the handler gaining an advantage has an effect on whether or not it's handling. You can check saabrian's original post for confirmation. https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2062983&postcount=8 But you can still apply advantage. If, for instance, Dema's handball had gone right to, say, Wolff, and Wolff had banged it home, the proper call is goal for KC, red card to Dema, no PK. (I know this because there was a recent match where Ashley Cole was on the post on a corner kick, and leaped toward a shot and hit it with his arm, a la' Dema. The referee ruled, IMO correctly, that the ball was already over the line, so no foul. But I asked the hypothetical question, and a poster replied that if Cole knocked the ball out, and a Bolton attacker had banged home the rebound, that would be the right call. If Cole had hit the ball before it crossed the line, but it went in anyway, the correct call is goal, and yellow for USB.) Just to clarify the distinction, another poster replies https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2063341&postcount=9 https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3606265&postcount=18 And just to reiterate this Contrast that with what I highlighted in your post.