Margaret Hassan, R.I.P

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Roel, Nov 16, 2004.

  1. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  2. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    R.I.P. Mrs. Hassan.

    You were always on the front lines, the fact of which alone demonstrates how much better a human being you were than me, and most others.
     
  3. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How unbelievably insane is this? I don't understand how killing a middle-aged woman, who directed charity operations, is supposed to advance one's cause.
     
  4. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It is crazy and inhuman.
     
  5. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    They are sending a message that no Westerner is safe, no matter why they are in Iraq.

    This does not lessen that it is insane and very very tragic.
     
  6. Garcia

    Garcia Member

    Dec 14, 1999
    Castro Castro
    Their message/cause is also about money. This is under-reported, but a factor. Makes these scumbags no more than the worst criminals out there.

    Yea, she gets her own thread for being involved in the peaceful process and was considered high profile, but we need to keep all these people in our prayers, even the killers IMHO.

    There has to be a better way.
     
  7. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I find it bizarre that a thread concerning the latest targeted murder of a civilian hostage, Iraq's CARE director, Margaret Hassan, has had six posts since it was started -- and none in the last 12 hours -- while a thread complaining about US military conduct has had 30 in the same time period, and a thread complaining about prudish, conservative sniveling has had 60.

    Bizarre, but not surprising.
     
  8. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One day I believe she will be Sainted, at least by the Iraqi people.

    I'm a believer in reincarnation, and I believe she is already well on her way back to this planet to not only reap the benefits of the life she spent here in this lifetime, but to further her Boddishvatta cause to do good and justice in the World.

    May her Spirit live forever.
     
  9. Garcia

    Garcia Member

    Dec 14, 1999
    Castro Castro
    To be fair, what more can be said?

    She, nor her family will read our comments. Nothing will change. So many deaths already, so why should she be extra special anyway? These are not my feelings but you should get my point.

    It is almost like Elizabeth Smart getting so much attention when missing black girls get no attention. In some manner, almost. But yes, maybe something good can come from such a high profile murder but what? I don't know exactly.

    I guess if you want to look like you are really concerned about the world, post in this thread. Silly.
     
  10. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Or all those threads trolling about religion and religious bigotry. This thread should have unanimous support, and probably does. Controversy and divisiveness gets more action, though.
     
  11. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I strongly agree.
     
  12. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know. What more needs to be said about conservative whiners who couldn't handle naughty words in Saving Private Ryan? Is 188 posts enough? Or is there more that can be said?

    To be fair, Garcia, when 188 posts is the benchmark set by whining and counter-whining about naughty words, what is the proper amount of discussion about Margaret Hassan?



    I don't. What is your point?

    The FCC and Christian Coalition won't read our comments either. We won't change them. So why do we post 188 times about how outrageous it is that some peope couldn't handle Saving Private Ryan on Veteran's Day?

    My point is that Margaret Hasaan's life, her murder -- including those who murdered her, the community that shields them and the Arab media that gives it minimal coverage while repeatedly airing video of the American shooting an unarmed insurgent -- are no less worthy of discussion.

    I can't believe you took the time to object.



    I agree, the Smart coverage was way out of proportion, totally over the top. Kind of like 188 posts bitching about Christian conservatives.



    I know that isn't true. People who are really concerned about the world post in other threads.
     
  13. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    We're probably much closer to consensus wrt Mrs. Hassan tha we are about rightist whining over some blue language on prime-time network television. It's already been said here that controversy and divisiveness get more attention. That's not difficult to understand.

    Everyone knows why Mrs. Hassan was killed, and no one (I hope) believes she had it coming. Those folks who post here are doing so out of a desire to make some sort of statement, sort of like signing the guestbook at a funeral. That's a good thing, but it won't bring her back.

    Read the thread again. Not all of those posts are talking about how "outrageous" it is. More than a few are either somewhere in the middle, and some are outright Chicken Little posturing about how our moral standards have dropped since Stephen Fetchit was in vogue.

    Discussion generally lasts longer and involves more people when there are two popular sides being taken. Now, if someone was to come here and suggest that Mrs. Hassan and all other Westerners occupying Iraq deserve whatever fate befalls them, this thread would take off real quick. But no one feels that way.

    IMO, some of those posts express the fears that were realized two weeks ago. A lot of people will either emboldened to act on their hatred by this election, while others will be concerned for their future because of it. This is bigger than a film- it's the idea of almost a century and a half of human rights progress being put at risk, at least for me and mine. Others may feel the same, for different reasons, but I think the SPR thread simply reflects some of that reality.
     
  14. Garcia

    Garcia Member

    Dec 14, 1999
    Castro Castro
    I didn't really.

    I was just giving some reasons as to why people have yet to respond to this thread. I clearly said that these were not my feelings.

    Instead of this thread being about this lady, her lifework, etc, is now about the thread itself. :(
     
  15. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When you start off by saying (after six whole posts), "To be fair, what more can be said", and close by saying, "I guess if you want to look like you are really concerned about the world, post in this thread. Silly", I am not sure why you seem surprised by my response.



    Spare me. Until I bumped it, this thread was about nothing except being next in line for page two.

    Do you think it is inaccurate to say people were more interested in discussing prudish conservative whiners and an unjustified shooting by an American soldier, than discussing any aspect of Margaret Hassan's murder?

    There is much we could discuss about this.

    How about the relative lack of attention given by the Arab media? To quote AlJazeera, "the channel would not air it out of respect for the feelings of its audience."

    I wonder what "feelings" they are refering to. Perhaps they are the "feelings" that it is better to fan outrage against Americans -- by showing an American killing a wounded Iraqi fighter -- and to downplay atrocities committed by Arabs by NOT showing the killing of a middle-aged, female charity worker dressed in a cute orange suit and blindfold.

    IMO, there is plenty on the subject of Margaret Hassan's murder to talk about. But maybe not.
     
  16. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Turkish Press, BBC and al Jazeera all have some coverage on the Hassan murder.

    http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=32655

    "This video is quite disturbing and it shows Mrs Hassan being subjected to severe physical and psychological pressure in which she is shown to suffer severe emotional and physical distress."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/4019809.stm

    http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4CBA1458-4085-45A4-B4AA-789098B66818.htm


    Prior to her murder, there was a substantial effort in Baghdad, for people appealing for her safe release. After her murder, many Iraqis expressed their outrage of going after humanitarian workers.

    I never met her, but she was a friend of a friend. She was highly respected in the social justice movement. Her murder will really change how we do things there, as regardless of motivation, no one is safe.
     
  17. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The five most-popular stories on AlJazeera (the most popular news outlet in the Arab world) are:

    #1 the US Marine shooting of an unarmed Iraqi fighter
    #2 "rights groups" condemn "racist" US media
    #3 child victims of the US offensive
    #4 Israeli jazz star praises Yassir Arafat
    #5 a doctor demands an autoposy on Arafat

    Surely, Roel, you are not suggesting the Margaret Hassan murder has featured prominently. In any case, it is of less significance to AlJazeera's readers than an Israeli jazz singer's opinion of Arafat and the old fart's autopsy.

    Perhaps if they showed the video of Hassan's murder as much as they like to show video of dead Arabs the story would be more popular.
     
  18. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It would probably go through the roof. It sounds like the video is extremely disturbing. I know I have a thick skin, but I wouldn't watch the beheading videos, nor would I want to see Margaret Hassan's murder.

    Her story was on al Jazeera yesterday and today. It is not highlighted, but it is not missing, either. The "most popular" section is based on frequency of emailings. Al Jazeera can certainly do more to create awareness of the murder and its impact on Iraq (and war zones in general.) Based on an earlier discussion in this thread, people are more likely to communicate about controversial topics than one where there is quite some consistency on the opinion.

    My concern, going forward, is how are humanitarian organizations going to be organized in war zones?
     
  19. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yes, I imagine seeing a bound and blindfolded woman getting shot in the head is very disturbing. However, AlJazeera is full of crap when they profess sensitivity to the "feelings" of their audience. They are perfectly willing to show death when it suits them (when it shows the US negatively).

    Did you read this article from the AP?

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...1117/ap_on_re_mi_ea/arab_view_iraq_slayings_1
     
  20. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    This is a really interesting juxtaposition: the US marine murdering an Iraqi insurgent and the unidentified kidnappers murdering Margaret Hassan.

    CNN has the marine story on top, and Hassan is a link "below the fold." But they do have Jude Law identified as the sexiest man alive!

    http://www.cnn.com/

    Fox News has Peterson, Hillary, UN food-for-oil scandal, and "naked for the news." You can also buy the DVD with Pearl and Berg's murders. Interesting to note that Fox's lead is US troop toll at 1,206.

    http://www.foxnews.com/

    And ABC News has a bit on the defense of the marine, but nothing on Hassan.

    http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/

    Al Jazeera seems consistent with US mainstream media.

    NOTE: Those links will get out-of-date very quickly, with regards to this topic.

    PS. The AP is great, and that is a very good article. For the sake of disclosure, AP is one of my wife's clients!
     
  21. Garcia

    Garcia Member

    Dec 14, 1999
    Castro Castro
    Yea, you bumped it and it's still you and Roel posting.

    As far as being inaccurate, you brought up the numbers and I agree. I don't see I didn't agree. At first I didn't notice any anger direct towards me, but I am starting to think you are mad at me for something. :rolleyes:

    I can't force people to post in a thread. Sorry.
     
  22. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And you're here, Garcia. Don't sell yourself short. :)

    But seriously, this just illustrates my point.



    Anger, no. A bit of irritation, yes. If you really don't get why, please reread this post: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3604258&postcount=15



    Nobody said or suggested you could or should. No apology necessary.
     
  24. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    In terms of positioning the story of Margaret Hassan's murder. Al Jazeera does not have any stories on Jude Law as the sexiest man alive, nor are they selling DVDs showing the executions of Pearl and Berg. In that regard, mainstream US media and al Jazeera are different.

    Al Jazeera certainly has its obvious bias, but mainstream US media, once you sniff it, you must admit it stinks.
     
  25. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A fluff story about Jude Law has nothing to do with the question of why Arab media have covered so differently the killings of Hassan by insurgents and the unarmed insurgent by a Marine. Does it prove something for you?


    Can you link an order form on any American news site?

    You are confusing a story about the company selling it with an offer of sale.


    Meaning what (relative to this topic)? Do you disagree that US media have given more significant coverage to the killing of the insurgent than Arab media has given to the Hassan killing?
     

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