Everyone knows you're obsessed with Title IX, Mr. Flannigan, but please don't pollute every forum on BigSoccer with your political views, which belong in the Politics forum. What you do is nothing but trolling and BigSoccer is far too tolerant of it. Some of us would like to read and talk about soccer.
I expressed no views here, and no politics. I posted a link which should be of interest to all fans of men's college soccer. It is you, XYZ, who is intolerant, not I.
If thousands of high school soccer teams for boys are elimininated or starved for resources to meet the New Quota, it will have a lot to do with the future of men's soccer in this country.
I took a moment to look through Mr. Flannigan's posts in the last month. He talked a lot about soccer, and apart from reporting today's news, he didn't make a single reference to Title IX. He isn't exactly flooding the boards. My suspicion: you're attacking Tom because it's easier than defending an unfair quota.
An interesting assertion. Since the Bill referred to in the article only would require reporting of information, and since Title IX already applies to any High School that receives federal funding, are you admitting that thousands of high schools are violating the law? Your reference to a "New Quota" is utterly bogus. There is no "New Quota." It is also absurd to assert an impact on high school soccer, even if it were to ocurr and I doubt it would, "will have a lot to do with the future of men's soccer in this country." Such a statement could come only from someone uninformed over the role of high school soccer in player development. It has next to none. Players are developed in club. If there is a trend it is in the better players eschewing high school soccer to remain in top clubs, where the competition is better, the coaching better and the scouts are to be found.
In colleges, Title IX has become a quota, and not because of the law. In fact, the law itself says that it should not be interpreted as a quota. But a group similar to the one above cooked up a scheme where numbers of participants were the only thing that mattered. As a result, huge numbers of male walk-ons are turned away each year, even though they're well qualified athletes, and in the absence of the quota, the school could give them the opportunity cheaply. My understanding is that the following high school activities generally have a considerable majority of female participants: theater dance choir band speech spirit clubs student gov't school newspaper cheerleading academic competitions Does this mean that high schools are breaking the law? Not necessarily; it means that adolescent males tend to choose sports as their outlet. Females, by contrast, tend to choose sports among a wider variety of activities. If there's a problem with that, efforts should be focused on all extracurricular activities, not just one where males participate more.
The funniest thing about this thread is that Tom acts like this is something new. Title IX has been a high schooll issue for a while now, mainly centering on facilities and seasons (i.e. boys and girls playing in the same season in some sports). This says nothing about cutting. It just says people need to be kept an eye on, as they do in all matters involving public funds. No, I'm sorry. The funniest thing is Tom pretending he doesn't have a political agenda. Classic.
In college, there are available activities, then there are scholarship activities (read sports). It was the inequitable distribution (real or perceived) of athletic aid that drove the bus on this issue in the 1st place. In all honesty, public high school sports are flying under the radar right now on Title IX and haven't yet been legally challenged in a manner similar to universities. I think it's just a matter of time until high school athletics are required to meet the same set of athletic participation criteria as universities.
Same, same. Whatever. It's just comedy because he pushes his agenda in the thread titles and then plays the innocent. One cross, no waiting in the Flannigan household. He musta missed the Schoolhouse Rock episode where they explained the whole process of how a bill becomes a law. Just cause someone come sup with an idea doesn't mean it's gonna happen the way you think it will.
Not sure I'd say they're flying under the radar, exactly ... there have been quite a few finicky-seeming lawsuits, such as the fall-sport/spring-sport one. Still, I agree with your message ... they seem to be steering things toward another de facto sports-only quota system.
The use of a "quota" has been part of the enforcement of Title IX since the Education Department drafted enforcement guidelines as required by the law. It is one of three such quide lines, but it has been the preferred method of most institutions because it gives surety. The issue of whether all activities (theatre, band, etc.) should be included with sports has been considered and for now the courts and Dept. of Education refuse to group them together. This Bill changes nothing in that regard. If the law is not being violated, the Bill adds nothing. If the law is being violated then Bill would make the violations more transparent. Any claim of an impact, must assume wide spread violations of the law coupled with an enforcement effort. This is missing and yet Tom has no problem jumping to the conclusion that disaster looms. It is such leaps of fancy that give him less credibility than a 90's Isuzu television pitch man. High Schools have been the subject of Title IX actions as Monster notes, most recently in Michigan. The application of Title IX to high schools is nothing new. The real issue is the claimed impact on soccer. There would be none. Developement is done in club, not high school. Indeed, a strong argument can be made that removing soccer from high school would aid, not diminish, development.
In previous Title IX threads, this claim has been made over and over again about college soccer, especially second- and third-tier programs. You know what? This year's breakthrough national teamer is Brian Ching, who almost didn't get a chance to play in college. This year's breakthrough MLSer is Davy Arnaud, who didn't get the chance to play Division I soccer. When you look at the players who barely make it, it's asinine to suggest that others aren't falling through the cracks. You know how Carlos Bocanegra was discovered?
Read the article. It deals with high school not college. Next read what has been written. My comments apply to high school. Next consider the arguments that are made and respond to them. Your position is utterly nonresponsive to any point raised here.
I asked if you knew where Carlos Bocanegra was discovered. Answer: while playing for his high school team.
You are wrong. Bocanegra played club and was on the ODP team prior to high school. You might have a point with Eric Wynalda who was seen by Sigi in a high school game after being passed over by ODP coaches, but not Bocanegra, and even with Wynalda it is likely he would have been noticed in club or future ODP tryouts. Your argument is specious even if you rely on Wynalda for the following reasons: 1) You assume that absent high school the player would never be seen. Considering that these players played for clubs and in almost all cases ODP they would have been noticed. 2) You do not deny the minimal impact of high school soccer in development. 3) You do not demonstrate any evidence suggesting violations of the law or ongoing that would lead to enforcement and that enforcement would lead to a reduction in soccer programs. Where there had been Title IX enforcement in high school there has been no reduction in hihg school programs. You also lead with a examples of college soccer, not high school, hence my point that you are not responding to any argument involving hihg school and Title IX, or are you denying that you wrote: Further the arguments on Ching and Arnaud are moronic. For your argument to have any merit you would have to establish that absent Title IX they would have played. Of course they both did play. Are you arguing that absent Title IX they would have played at a top D1 school? Tell us the school Arnaud would have played at, but for Title IX. Are you also arguing that only D1 schools have merit - if so you have very limited knowledge of college soccer. Tell us, where did Stern John do to college?
Bocanegra was brought into the ODP system by Sigi Schmid who saw him in a high school game. Oh really? Sigi must not have been very impressed then, since Wynalda didn't play for UCLA. Liar.
You may apologize at any time and also also admit you are woefully deficient in research ability and knowledge. From ESPN.com from Thursday, December 12, 2002 15:34 EST, http://espn.go.com/soccer/s/2002/1019/1448218.html
By the way, numerista, you have never responded to the points about made about Club soccer. If we return to Carlos Bocanegra, he played club soccer with RC United, which won the S. California State Cup twice, made the semifinals of the Dallas Cup in 1997 and placed first at the Nomads Tournament in 1996. He was in the District ODP pool before he was in High School. To suggest he would not be noticed without playing high school is absurd. By the way Ryan Lee and Nick Rimando were on this club team and they were notice thru club and played at UCLA and a few places thereafter.
That's certainly an interesting story of how a college coach scouting high school soccer gave us our all-time scorer ... I stand corrected on that point. But I called you out because you made two claims that I found highly dubious. You denied that Bocanegra was discovered while playing in high school. Given that you think I'm too deficient to research it myself, you should probably back yourself up.
My information is based on talking with Sigi at the Nomads Thanksgiving Tournament in the mid to late 1990's on multiple occassions. Go to the UCLA bio pages on Carlos Bocanegra and Ryan Lee and you will find that both played for RC United and the club's success. See, http://uclabruins.collegesports.com/sports/m-soccer/mtt/lee_ryan00.html and http://uclabruins.collegesports.com/sports/m-soccer/mtt/bocanegra_carlos00.html Go to the Region IV ODP Alumni page and you will find Carlos listed. http://www.regioniv.com/odp/boysnews/grads.htm Nick Rimando was on the same club team and he played with the U17 and U18 Youth National Teams. http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/players/bio.jsp?team=dcu&player=rimando_n&playerId=rim059326 and http://uclabruins.collegesports.com/sports/m-soccer/mtt/rimando_nick00.html If you have team mates on youth National Teams why would you assume that high school was the unique and only path for a player, especially a player who was a two time club state champion? As to where he was "discovered" you will have to accept my word. At the Nomads Tournament I was told words to the effect, "This is where I first saw . . . " and then there was a list of players including Carlos Bocanegra.