The 2010 Table - Magic Numbers, Tragic Numbers & Other Numerical Arcana of Dubious Value [R]

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Knave, Sep 13, 2010.

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  1. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I was interested to see a comparison between how teams did in their first 15 games and then since (mainly because I know it's been a tale of two seasons for Seattle). Here's what I came up with - please note, I found at least one omission on MLS's website regarding scores for the season, so there may be errors here. Please correct me if I am wrong. Records are W-D-L (forgive me for the formatting, I've never figured that out)

    First half of the season:
    East
    Columbus 8-4-3 = 28 points
    New York 8-2-5 = 26 points
    Toronto 6-4-5 = 22 points
    Chicago 5-5-5 = 20 points
    Kansas City 4-3-8 = 15 points
    Philadelphia 4-3-8 = 15 points
    New England 4-2-9 = 14 points
    DC United 4-2-9 = 14 points

    West
    Los Angeles 10-3-2 = 33 points
    Real Salt Lake 9-2-4 = 29 points
    Dallas 6-7-2 = 25 points
    Colorado 6-5-4 = 23 points
    San Jose 6-4-5 = 22 points
    Houston 5-3-7 = 18 points
    Seattle 4-3-8 = 15 points
    Chivas 4-2-9 = 14 points


    Second half of the season:
    East
    New York 6-3-3 = 21 points (12 games)
    Kansas City 5-3-3 = 18 points (11 games)
    Columbus 5-3-4 = 18 points (12 games)
    Philadelphia 3-4-5 = 13 points (12 games)
    New England 3-3-6 = 12 points (12 games)
    Chicago 2-3-6 = 9 points (11 games)
    Toronto 2-3-7 = 9 points (12 games)
    DC United 2-1-9 = 7 points (12 games)

    West
    Seattle 8-3-1 = 27 points (12 games)
    Dallas 6-6-0 = 24 points (12 games)
    Real Salt Lake 5-7-0 = 22 points (12 games)
    San Jose 5-3-3 = 18 points (11 games)
    Los Angeles 5-3-4 = 18 points (12 games)
    Colorado 5-3-4 = 18 points (12 games)
    Chivas 3-2-5 = 11 points (10 games)
    Houston 2-3-7 = 7 points (12 games)


    What really stands out to me is how average LA has been in the second half and how bad the East has been.
     
  2. nlsanand

    nlsanand Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Because the playoff race has become so uninteresting, it might be worth to pick on other goalposts (home field in the west), supporters' shield, usoc, for my weekly analyses, given that we'll probably see a very minmal analysis necessary on the final day.
     
  3. nlsanand

    nlsanand Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    And Chivas has now been eliminated, by their rivals AGAIN.

    Also, that result has now cleaned up the supporters shield race to 5 teams.

    Lowest possible point total is LAG on 54

    Columbus will be eliminated from the race with:
    -any loss
    -any LA victory

    New York will be eliminated from the race if:
    -they lose to RSL

    Dallas will be eliminated from the race if:
    -they lose to LA
     
  4. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    couldn't LAG lose each of the last 3 games and end up on 53 where they are now?

    i think maybe the minimum is RSL or FCD on 54. i could be wrong tho. LAG losing every game to end at 53 would mean they lost to FCD who would then have 53. but FCD and RSL play each other so they could tie leaving FCD on 54 or RSL could win leaving them on 54. all three could lose the rest of their games and the teams below them that would get wins from such a scenario (NYRB and COL etc) would still be below 54 from just those wins. i think i worked that all out correctly.
     
  5. Duiz

    Duiz Member

    Apr 10, 2007
    London
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess RSL is too early to tell.
     
  6. nlsanand

    nlsanand Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    iwas thinking that because RSL could end up on 54 by beating FCD, we assume that Dallas beat RSL, leaving one LA on 53, Dallas on 52, and RSL on 51. Then because FCD play LA they ciould tie and go to 54.

    Now that I think of it's possible they could all tie on 53 points with RSL on 52, since a tie would put RSL on 52, and assuming they lose to New York. It could be Dallas and LA on 53.
     
  7. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    exactly. either LAG or FCD have to end up on at least 54. LAG losing to FCD puts FCD on 52. RSL plays FCD. if there is a tie then FCD has 53 and RSL 52 (assuming here that RSL and FCD lose all their other games). an FCD win and an RSL loss would put FCD on 55 and RSL 51. an RSL win would put them on 54 and FCD at 53. so the lowest possible points that can result out of the RSL/FCD match would be 53 for FCD.

    i didn't do all of the calculations but i think that the trailing teams that would have to beat the likes of FCD and RSL and LAG for this 53 lowest max points to happen are all far enough back in the point totals that they wouldn't be higher than that number from the necessary wins. COL has to beat all three of LAG/FCD/RSL for this to happen but that is 9 points added to their 41 which only takes them to 50. and RBNY would have to beat RSL taking them to 50 (while they could lose to PHI/NER).

    essentially you were correct tho. 53 is the lowest possible number for the SS (it just happens to be FCD or LAG) and any team that cannot reach 53 points is out of it. so that is every team but those 3 and RBNY and CBUS.

    COL will have a lot to say in the outcome of the SS race (facing the top 3 contenders) and their getting in the playoffs is certainly not a lock. 3 games from which they could very easily take 0 points would leave them on 40 and hoping that KCW doesn't win 3 of their 4 remaining games (giving them 41 points).

    unless my math is wrong i think TFC is eliminated. they lose a 2 way tie break with COL on 40 pts and they lose a 3 way tie break with KCW/COL too. somebody should probably check me on that.
     
  8. nlsanand

    nlsanand Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    dallas is on 49 right now, so if tie rsl they're on 50, then they beat la they're 53,no?
     
  9. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    if i could do math i'd be dangerous. sorry.

    so yes. the lowest possible SS winner is either LAG on 53 or FCD on 53. but that still excludes everybody but RSL, CBUS and RBNY plus those two right?
     
  10. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Housekeeping

    Ain't none. So onto the nonsense ... I mean the numbers.

    Code:
    [B][U]         GP  GR W   D  L  PTS  PPG  PRJ  MPP  SE# WS# M#  T#  HD#÷  AD#÷[/U]
    [COLOR="Blue"]01  LAG  27  3  16  05  06  53  1.96  59  62  10  --  --  --  --    --
    02  RSL  27  3  14  09  04  51  1.89  57  60  08  --  --  --  --    --
    03  FCD  27  3  12  13  02  49  1.81  54  58  06  --  --  --  --    --
    04  NYR  27  3  14  05  08  47  1.74  52  56  04  --  --  --  --    --
    05  CMB  27  3  13  07  07  46  1.70  51  55  03  --  --  --  --    --[/COLOR]
    06  SEA  27  3  12  06  09  42  1.56  47  51  --  --  04  12  --    1.53
    07  SJE  26  4  11  07  08  40  1.54  46  52  --  --  06  13  --    1.67
    08  COL  27  3  11  08  08  41  1.52  46  50  --  --  05  11  --    1.87
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    09  KCW  26  4  09  06  11  33  1.27  38  45  --  --  13  06  1.77  3.40
    10  TFC  27  3  08  07  12  31  1.15  34  40  --  --  15  01† 3.00  5.20
    11  CHI  26  4  07  08  11  29  1.12  33  41  --  02  17  02  2.77  4.40
    [COLOR="SlateGray"]12  PHI  27  3  07  07  13  28  1.04  31  37  --  03  18  --  --    --
    13  NER  27  3  07  06  14  27  1.00  30  36  --  04  19  --  --    --
    14  HOU  27  3  07  05  15  26  0.96  29  35  --  05  20  --  --    --
    15  CDC  26  4  07  04  15  25  0.96  29  37  --  06  21  --  --    --
    16  DCU  27  3  06  03  18  21  0.78  23  30  --  --‡ 25  --  --    --[/COLOR]
    
    Current AD-Line: 47^[/B]
    Code:
    [B]GP = Games Played | GR = Games Remaining | PPG = Points Per Game
    MPP = Max Points Possible = PTS + (3 x GR)
    SE# = SS Elimination Number = MPP - (1st Place PTS) + 1
    WS# = Wooden Spoon Number = (16th Worst MPP) – PTS + 1
    M# = Magic Number = (9th Highest MPP) – PTS + 1
    T# = Tragic Number = MPP – (8th Highest PTS) + 1
    HD# = Historical Despair Number = [URL="https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21809605&postcount=1"]Full explanation.[/URL]
    HD#÷ = HD#/30 (i.e. in PPG)
    AD# = Actual Despair Number = [URL="https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21809605&postcount=1"]Full explanation.[/URL]
    AD#÷ = AD#/30 (i.e. in PPG)
    
    - Sorted by PPG, then fewest GP, then alphabetical.**
    - Teams in [COLOR="Blue"]blue[/COLOR] have clinched a playoff spot.
    - Teams in [COLOR="SlateGray"]gray[/COLOR] have been eliminated from the playoffs.
    - Teams in [COLOR="SeaGreen"]green[/COLOR] are conference champions.[/B]
    Asterisks

    † TFC remains playoff viable only because its tiebreaker with SJE goes to GD, which is unsettled.

    ‡ DCU’s MPP currently sets the pace for this number. When a team sets the pace on this number its WS# (technically 10 in DCU’s case) is impossible to attain.

    ^ Set by COL’s current 46 point (1.52 PPG) pace. See explanation linked in the box above.

    ** In the final weeks MLS tie-breakers will replace the final alphabetical sort. But until the final weeks it's seriously not worth the bother.

    Code:
    [B][U]Pace: Deviation from 3 at home, 1 on the road[/U]
    
    [U]         GP  PTS HG  AG  HW HD HL AW AD AL PCE[/U]
    01  LAG  27  53  13  14  8  2  3  8  3  3  00
    02  RSL  27  51  14  13  10 4  0  4  5  4  -04
    03  FCD  27  49  14  13  8  5  1  4  8  1  -06
    04  NYR  27  47  13  14  9  1  3  5  4  5  -06
    05  CMB  27  46  14  13  9  2  3  4  5  4  -09
    06  SJE  26  40  13  13  6  3  4  5  4  4  -12
    07  SEA  27  42  14  13  7  3  4  5  3  5  -13
    08  COL  27  41  14  13  8  4  2  3  4  6  -14
    09  KCW  26  33  13  13  6  3  4  3  3  7  -19
    10  CHI  26  29  12  14  3  6  3  4  2  8  -21
    11  TFC  27  31  14  13  6  5  3  2  2  9  -24
    12  PHI  27  28  13  14  5  6  2  2  1  11 -25
    13  HOU  27  27  13  14  5  3  5  2  3  9  -26
    14  CDC  26  25  13  13  5  2  6  2  2  9  -27
    15  NER  27  26  14  13  6  3  5  1  2  10 -29
    16  DCU  27  21  13  14  3  1  9  3  2  9  -32
    
    Sorted by PCE, then fewest GP, then PPG.[/B]
    Code:
    [B][U]PPG: Home and Away[/U]
    
    [U]         HPPG             APPG[/U]
    01  RSL  2.43    01  LAG  1.93
    02  NYR  2.15    02  FCD  1.54
    03  FCD  2.07    03  SJE  1.46
    04  CMB  2.07    04  SEA  1.38
    05  LAG  2.00    05  NYR  1.36
    06  COL  2.00    06  RSL  1.31
    07  SEA  1.71    07  CMB  1.31
    08  TFC  1.64    08  COL  1.00
    09  SJE  1.62    09  CHI  1.00
    10  KCW  1.62    10  KCW  0.92
    11  PHI  1.62    11  DCU  0.79
    12  NER  1.50    12  HOU  0.64
    13  HOU  1.38    13  TFC  0.62
    14  CDC  1.31    14  CDC  0.62
    15  CHI  1.25    15  PHI  0.50
    16  DCU  0.77    16  NER  0.38[/B]
    Code:
    [B][U]Remaining League Schedule[/U]
    
    [U]      WK28  WK29  WK30[/U]
    CDC:   TFC  @SEA   SJE
          ----  ----   CHI
    CHI:   CMB   KCW  @CDC
          ----   DCU  ----
    CMB:  @CHI  @TFC   PHI
    COL:  @FCD  @LAG   RSL
    DCU:   SJE  @CHI   TFC
    FCD:   COL  @RSL  @LAG
    HOU:   NER  @SJE   SEA
    KCW:   SEA   CHI   SJE
          ----  @NER  ----
    LAG:  @PHI   COL   FCD
    NER:  @HOU   KCW  @NYR
    NYR:   RSL  @PHI   NER
    PHI:   LAG   NYR  @CMB
    RSL:  @NYR   FCD  @COL
    SEA:  @KCW   CDC  @HOU
    SJE:  @DCU   HOU   CDC
          ----  ----  @KCW
    TFC:  @CDC   CMB  @DCU[/B]
    Code:
    [B][U]Remaining Strength of Schedule (Factoring Home and Away Performance)[/U]
    
    Example: DCU’s strength of schedule = 
             Average of [COL HPPG, SJE APPG, CHI HPPG, TFC APPG]
    
    RSL:  1.90
    FCD:  1.81
    COL:  1.79
    PHI:  1.79
    NER:  1.49
    LAG:  1.38
    KCW:  1.34
    SEA:  1.21
    CDC:  1.20
    CMB:  1.13
    HOU:  1.13
    TFC:  1.13
    DCU:  1.11
    NYR:  1.10
    CHI:  1.08
    SJE:  0.91[/B]
    Code:
    [B][U]MLS Numbers Resources[/U]
    
    [URL="http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/MLS.html"]SportsClubStats[/URL]
    [URL="http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/soccer.htm"]Sagarin's MLS Ratings[/URL]
    [URL="http://playoffstatus.com/mls/mls.html"]PlayoffStatus[/URL]
    [URL="http://usasoccer.blogspot.com/"]Climbing The Ladder[/URL]
    [URL="http://www.settingthetable.info/home.asp"]Setting The Table[/URL]
    [URL="http://www.mlssoccer.com/content/2010-playoff-standings"]MLSSoccer's Playoff Table[/URL]
    [URL="http://www.mlssoccer.com/playoff-format"]MLS Playoff Tiebreakers[/URL]
    [URL="http://soccernet.espn.go.com/tables?league=usa.1&cc=5901"]ESPN Soccernet's MLS Table[/URL] 
    
    Please suggest others.[/B]
    Notes

    1) It seems that the old 40 points gets you within spitting distance of the playoffs rule of thumb is kaput. All the teams in the top half of the table are at or above 40 points already, and there’s three weeks to go. Maybe this year is an aberration. Maybe it’s a sign of things to come. One thing is for certain: the reason the 40 point rule of thumb is no more is because of a big jump in MLS team disparity. Earlier in this thread I posted a graph showing the standard deviations of MLS PPG numbers since 1996.

    The updated raw graph looks like this, and not much has changed since the last time I posted it. I remarked at the time that the variability of the 2005 numbers was due entirely to the entrance of CDC and RSL into the league. So I decided to see what the standard deviation was just for the established MLS teams over the years and removed the numbers for all expansion sides during their initial expansion year. This meant, for example, removing CDC and RSL in 2005 (both of which did terribly), as well as removing CHI in 1996 and SEA in 2009 (both of which did great). Leaving Houston’s numbers in (because they were not a true expansion side), but taking all the expansion sides out, the graph looks like this.

    [​IMG]

    I suspect because of contraction, from 2001 to 2002 there was a huge increase in league parity (take out Tampa in 2001 and the standard deviation remains high: .41). If you were to draw a trendline from 2002 until 2009, it’d be pretty close to a straight line, maybe just a little under .24. Then this year there’s a big jump in disparity. I assumed this was because of the league spending more money on salaries, but it’s not (or at least that’s not the only or the decisive factor). Projecting current PPG numbers into season totals, and comparing those projections to team salaries, you get this:

    [​IMG]

    Yes, NYR and LAG are at the top of the standings, but so are RSL, FCD and CMB. More, TFC and CHI are both near the bottom of the standings despite higher than average salaries. Finally, take out LAG and NYR from the standard deviation calculations and the change barely even registers, dropping only from .39 to .36. So spending is not the decisive factor here. Even if you take out the high spending teams, the disparity remains. There’s just more disparity in this league than there has been since 2001. The better teams are simply better, and the worse teams are simply worse. Why? Honestly, I have no idea.

    2) COL, that was a seriously stupid game to lose. I mean, you needed the points, you’re playing the worst team in the league (a team that just plain doesn’t win in Denver), and then after that you have one of the very hardest schedules in the league. And you went and blew it. Big time blew it. Stupid!

    3) KCW, how the devil did you lose and yet survive another weekend?

    4) SJE, how did you get such an embarrassingly easy end of the season schedule?

    The DC United Dungeon of Doom & Doggies!

    I sense a pattern here: every three games, we win. Considering this season, it’s not terrible. Giving Interim Head Coach Olsen credit for Substitute Interim Head Coach Ashton’s win over COL, the Olsen Pace improved to -.89, which is a hell of a lot better than Onalfo’s pace of -1.33.

    If we want to beat the old DCU worst, then we’ve gotta win every single one of our remaining games. So forget that, because it ain’t happening. What about beating the worst teams ever? We’re back out of the bottom five. And we only need one stinking, lousy point to stay out of the bottom five for good. Currently, we’re at 21 points. If we end the season at 21 points we’ll match the 2009 NYR record. So we need one point, and as far as I’m concerned, that should be our goal for the remainder of the season: one point.

    That and more puppies!
     
  11. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    i am not sure i'd want to be the Rapids. their death schedule sets up for a nice familiar end of season tank job. zero points in the last 3 games is very conceivable. that would leave them sweating bullets that the Wizards can't re-get hot and win 3 of 4.

    this could get interesting. but not to hate on KCW their fans have a new stadium and Omar Bravo to look forward to next season so i hope for the long suffering Colorado fans they manage to either A. get a few points in their last games or B. not get caught by KCW. they really do deserve to finally make the playoffs.
     
  12. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder if it is a sign that expansion actually is diluting the talent pool. That's not to say that the teams are getting worse, but in the past a FO that wasn't very good at picking out quality talent and coaches could get away with it because there weren't as many teams out there to take the good players. With the larger number of teams in the league now, there are now more "good" FOs that are picking off the better talent leaving the "bad" FOs with less opportunities to stumble on some talent?

    I'll call it the Blind Squirrel Theory. Let's say you've got a field with 60 good nuts and 40 bad nuts in it. Each squirrel can have 5 nuts in total. Initially when you send out 10 squirrels, 2 of them are blind squirrels and 8 of them can see. Now the 8 squirrels that can see run out and get 5 good nuts each taking 40 good nuts off the field leaving the blind squirrels 20 good and 40 bad nuts. Just playing the odds that means the blind squirrels are going to get about 2 good nuts on average, so they can still compete with the squirrels that can see.

    Now the next time you send out 16 squirrels into the same field, but this time there are 70 good nuts and 30 bad nuts (representing improving quality of the players). You've still got the initial 2 blind squirrels, but now you've got 13 squirrels that can see and another blind squirrel.The 13 sighted squirrels run out and take 65 of the good nuts and leave the blind squirrels with only 5 good nuts. This means the blind squirrels are getting less than one good nut on average, but let's say 2 get one good nut and 1 gets all bad nuts. The blind squirrels with one good nut can kind of compete with the squirrels can see, but they still lose out more often then not. However the blind squirrel that got all bad nuts curls up into a ball and is just beat to crap by the squirrels that can see.
     
    RafaLarios, American Brummie and terrier repped this.
  13. TrickHog

    TrickHog Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This post is why I love Bigsoccer.

    Using a blind squirrel and nuts metaphor to explain possible reasons for league disparity through expansion.

    Successfully.

    :)
     
  14. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I'm of two minds on this. Certainly, I think that's totally plausible, and I even advanced a variant of this idea to explain the increased parity in 2002: contraction increased the density of the talent pool. But at the same time I can look at this and say it's not 100% clear.

    [​IMG]

    I used the sans expansion year teams data. On the one hand, there's really no decisive correlation between the number of teams and the amount of parity. The 12 team league numbers are all over the place.

    On the other hand, if you dig a little deeper, there is a plausible story about the number of teams and league parity. Look at the clusters. The 10 team league cluster is grouped pretty closely together. There are lower standard deviations and less variation at 10 teams, meaning the league exhibits more parity. There's much, much more variation in a 12 team league. But the high disparity years are pre-2001 (let's assume 2000 was a fluke). When the league returned to 12 teams in 2005, there was a high degree of parity (perhaps because of an expanded talent pool). And then you have the last three years: each year the number of teams increased and each year parity decreased. The only hitch: seems to me the last few years this league has been bringing in more and more talent. Still ...
     
  15. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Boy, I just had a totally withering thought.

    If Yoshou's hypothesis is correct (and there is some evidence it is), then DCU is probably totally screwed next year. DCU needs upgrades pretty much everywhere. More, if any FO relies on blind squirrel luck for finding quality players, it's the DCU FO. But with Portland and Vancouver joining the league, the talent pool will become even more stretched and the chances of the DCU FO being lucky will be even worse.

    What depressing prospects ...
     
  16. dtid

    dtid Member

    Sep 6, 2010
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I see it completely different - it now challenges teams to develop players rather than relying on the USSF through Bradenton and the NCAA to develop players for them.

    For the growth of the league and US soccer as a whole, this is a good thing.

    And I think a handful of teams who have been aggressive about developing youth players now have an edge in this new league order. I would consider DC to be one of those teams.
     
  17. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno.. One of the good things about this league is it doesn't take that much to swing from a good team to a crap team and vice versa. DCU gets a good coach in the off-season and they could be right back into the thick of things.
     
  18. dtid

    dtid Member

    Sep 6, 2010
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Now that you say that, look at Seattle, Philly in the second half of this year and San Jose - teams that were awful at some point recently (Philly early this year, SJ last year) or starting from scratch, etc., I think you're right.

    There are still quite a few "nuts" out there for squirrels, blind or not, to find.
     
  19. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno if there are quite a few "nuts" out there, but there are a lot of optometrists. ;)
     
  20. The Perfesser

    The Perfesser New Member

    May 23, 1999
    AthensGA/NewburyptMA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What if the new DP policy, the return of the Reserve League, and the continued ramping up of the Developmental programs INCREASE the number of "good nuts".

    Now if only we could do something about the number of blind squirrels in the Revolution front office.
     
  21. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the impact of all that is to raise the overall quality of the nuts in general. The quality of your average good nut in 1996 is probably about the same as a marginally bad nut today, while your average bad nut in 1996 isn't even on present on the field in 2010.
     
  22. soundermiki

    soundermiki Member+

    May 24, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Courtesy of Joshua Mayers at the Sounders FC blog. Scenarios provided to him by MLS. Nothing we didn't already know, but...

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht..._race_to_mls_playoffs_six_teams.html#continue
     
  23. edwardgr

    edwardgr Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yoshou I tried to rep the blind squirrel post but could not. Well played sir well played.

    Knave as always thanks for putting this together. I had a feeling looking at the standings that this week could end the playoff race altogether nice to see confirmation of that. Would this then be the earliest that all playoff participants was known?
     
  24. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Well, I think you're both thinking a bit more long term than I am. And you might be right in the long term. But it's not like the team's academy is going to fix DCU's problems by next season. (And we may have trouble finding that "good coach" Yoshou is talking about. That is, however, another thread over on the DCU board.) As for the year to year mobility ... I actually think it takes more than "not that much," and given that my team's mobility in recent years has been entirely downward ... so, yeah ...
     
  25. Green and BLue

    Green and BLue Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC
    Nov 3, 2003
    Republic of Cascadia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't worry, I repped him.
     

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