Neymar is now 21 years old, so I will compare him with 21 year old Pele. Who was better in your opinion and why? I was comparing their stats at Santos and their goal records are very similar. If you think Pele was better, do you think Neymar has the potential to ever be as good as Pele? As a Barcelona fan I am really excited about this signing and would like opinions from more knowledgeable people than me on Neymar's potential.
huh? NO COMPARISON Neymar now is probably more close to Pepe (Pele's partner at Santos: as 2nd striker and/or left FW ) but far from a Pele at 18-21yrs old (center forward/CAM playmaker) Many underrated Pepe for he played mostly in Brazil and was absent at WC level. Pepe was labeled as "the best forward ever seen at Santos - for Pele was not human" At 21yrs old, Pele won 2 WCs, Libertadore, intercontinental cup, 5topscorers and had scored a few seasons with 100+goals. His assists (not well recorded) were also more appealing than Neymar now surely. There are few things that Pele was OBVIOUSLY better (or much better) - SHOOTING (Pele 10, Neymar 7.5) - Vision and Passing (Pele 9.5 , Neymar 8.5) - Dribble and ball control (Pele 9.8, Neymar 9) - Stamina and raise on big games Pele 10, Neymar 8.75 - Header Pele 10, Neymar 7
Recently (last year I believe) Pelé answered a question regarding Neymar being compared to him saying this: "Neymar has more finesse than I used to have. Perhaps a more suitable comparison would be with Zico or Cruyff." I read it in a Spanish sports daily (most likely Marco or As).
Personally, I associate it to both the artfulness and the gracefulness of a style. I believe it has to do with the elegance of the movements as well as the delicacy or tactfulness of the touch a player can handle the ball with in order to "govern" it. It certainly has to do with technical mastery imo.
Yeah, I meant more like what is meant with the original Spanish term. But thanks and agree that Zico and Cruijff had great elegance. I'd say that Pelé had it too at times (esp. at full sprint, less so his acceleration).
Most of Pele's opponents were amateur or semi-pro players with sub-par fitness levels, even the balls an pitches were slower. Comparing a modern player with someone who played 40-50 years ago is quite pointless.
Did you know what you were talking about or it just spit out of your back hole? Let me name a few legends that Pele DeFEAT them : Eusebio, Luigi Riva, Fachetti, Mazola, Boby Charlton, Moore, Gordon Banks, Kopa, Fontaine, Jonquet, Cubillas, Chumpitaz , Beckenbauer, Muller ...and many many more ... Well I guess you hardly know half of those names???
I like the dude, but Neymar is not even undisputedly the best player in his age group (say, 21-23) today. Pele might be overrated sometimes, and dif eras are obviously difficult to compare, but 21 years old Pele beats 21 years old Neymar easily when we contrast a player to his temporaries. Briefly: Barca signed a young quality player, not a young Pele. Neymar is still evolving, and hopefully a lot and fast, but as it is, he has tough time being in top 5 Barca players.
I really have no idea how you generate these numbers...do you have a spreadsheet at home to keep track of them? or just generally make them up as you go along not having a go just don't know how you came up with Pele dribble 9.8 and Neymar 9, etc
Indeed. Also, how are "stamina" and "raise on big games" possible to smack under one rating number, as if they're that closely connected. If anything, stamina means ability to keep one's level on and on despite the long test period, whereas raise on big games means that one can play in especially high level when it matters the most. I say: smells like an unscientific method of rating the two + not extra points for half-random cap locks. Also - big diffence in saying "a few" or "few" ways Pele was better than Neymar...
Comparing him to Pele at this point in time is ridiculous. Of course he's not on the level of Pele at 21, no player was and nobody probably will be either. He is though a very good player who has done almost everything he could in South America. Whether he can replicate that in Europe is unclear, but he is an excellent prospect and in the right environment should be able to develop further still.
Why do you suspect that? ------ Some while ago I was looking for how Pelé was viewed in his early years. Found it refreshing to read how an Italian magazine refused to name him among the best players in 1961 because he did not play enough (competitive) international football.
Pelé never played against Gerd Müller and the one time he played against Beckenbauer ended in a draw, but by all means, keep pulling names out of your 'back hole' they seem as accurate as your arbitrary rating system. And at no point did I say Pelé was bad, all I said is that it is pointless to compare players from different eras of the game.
Because by 21 Pele had already been among the best players in the world for 4 years. Pele at 21 was as good as h got and he was the greatest ever IMO. What reason do we have to think there will be someone better at that age
You probably a troll or just a plain hater or dumb or maybe all of the above making that statement. Yes he is and by far the best player of his age group. []__[]
Many players back then being semi-pros is a fact. Some guys (always the usual suspects) on here seem to like argueing for black being white.
"Among the best players in the world" is not the same as "the best". Isn't it possible that some guy at 21 reaches the same peak? How high was Pelé his peak? For sure he was a major star, he had his autobiography out at the age of 22 and it sold like crazy. Can see that it is unlikely we will see another 17/18 year old maintaining that level for multiple years. Pelé sees himself as a representative of God at times. Maybe he is right.
You could say he is the best in his age group, and I don't personally know if I'd agree or disagree, but there are a lot of people who'd say that players like Gareth Bale and Mario Götze (who of course is only 20) aren't notable worse (if at all) than Neymar, and I think they'd have a very good argument. Anyway, best or not, "by far the best" is obviously overestimating Neymar, and so would be saying he is "undisputedly the best". Not that I'd mind him being the best, I mean I like Barca players to play better than other players.
The thing with the "no one ever is going to be what Pele was" argument is, imo, two-fold. First, the competition is tougher nowadays. It's of course impossible to compare different eras in any satisfactory way, and I don't really mean this as a knock on Pele, but while it was possible to be the best player in the world from 17 to 21, it's hardly like that anymore. Game has changed. Secondly, Pele is a real player of course, but he has also become this myth (or, indeed, god). Some people react to criticism towards Pele as blasphemy. Thus, it's impossible for any current player to be viewed as a player in the level of Pele as "a man can't win in the fight between a god and a man". Pele is too established in the tradition of football to ever be replaced, no matter what kinda players the future produces. Again: not saying Pele is overrated necessarily, but not all of his positive reputation is based on what he actually did on-pitch.
I found it, it was actually from 2011: http://www.marca.com/2011/06/22/futbol/equipos/real_madrid/1308770643.html Translation: About Neymar: "He has now the necessary experience to jump over to Real Madrid. My advise to him is to go. He is a well developed footballer. He has grown technically and physically, although his body is still fragile." "He is an excellent player and has a fantastic future. When you have the necessary experience to make the move to Europe everything is different. Neymar is without a doubt a level above the rest." Pelé believes Neymar cannot be considered his heir: "He is closer to Zico, Cruyff and that type of players, finer (*) and quicker than I used to be. What is certain is that he has the chance to become the best player in the world. He has huge talent." (*) The Spanish "más fino" would literally translate into "finer". But I think "finer" perhaps means better or superior, and I doubt that is what Pelé meant to say... So, I figured he must have been talking about finesse.