Alert: Daring thought: Brazil moving to CONCACAF...

Discussion in 'Brazil: Clubs and Competitions' started by Santista1962, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. Santista1962

    Santista1962 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2011
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Before I start, I would like everyone discussing in this thread to be as objective as possible. I really want a serious discussion about this possibility.

    If you want to read this other post I posted in the English forum, please do so. It will tell you a lot about what I felt from last night and give good perspectives of the fiasco (and I was watching it as a mere neutral!)

    To skip the unpleasant memory of last night, I thought about the situation our football is finding itself in and it suddenly came to me. It came to me when I realize that Argentine club culture will never change, try to improve or take criticism. No one is perfect, yes...but there is such a thing as too imperfect, too many issues, too much BS. At some point, you have to sit down and truly think if it is worth the benefit.

    Now I start...what if we were to move to CONCACAF in the same fashion that Australia moved?

    I kept thinking about it and a move that powerful will have severe power shifts. I have three sections: World Cup, Club, Economics and Possibe Result.

    World Cup

    It is widely known that CONMEBOL receives 4.5 slots while CONCACAF receives 3.5. A move to CONCACAF will inevitably have CONMEBOL with 3.5 while CONCACAF gains one to be 4.5.

    Club

    Anyone that knows the history of the Copa Libertadores can easily tell you that the reason the competition gain prestigue was because of Santos' victories in the 1962 edition as well as the 1962 Intercontinental Cup. Combined with the fact that we were the reigning national World Champions, Santos was the team to beat. That translated to winning the Libertadores (as we were the champions). That was the primary reason why Boca Juniors, in ridicule from their home nation, because the first Argentine club to take it seriously.

    In other words, we give the competition meaning. Without us, is goes back to what it was between 1967-1970 and we all know how those editions were played...

    With that in mind, a move to CONCACAF will mean having just one international competition to dispute, their CONCACAF Champions League. While I am a fan of a secondary cup and continental super cup, I like the fact that, if ever this happened, it will be easier to manage than the current competitions. Remember: we have our national league, national cup and state tournaments. The CONCACAF Champions League is played in the same fashion as the UEFA Champions League: it is a year-long event. That means that our clubs would only travel three times outside of Brazil in the group phase and four in the final stage. Over a period of a European season, that would simplify a lot of the scheduling.

    As far as the level of competition, the Mexican teams are no pushover and the Americans are improving with a handful of others, outside the fore mentioned two, capable of providing a surprise. Nothing starts out perfect; the level of play will, inevitably, improve.

    Economics

    I really don't have to explain much here. It is well known that Mexico's economic power eclipses many of the other South American nations....combined! And that is without mentioning the US. With the 2014 World Cup coming up, as well as the olympics, we need to start thinking on how to improve our football pyramid's structure and for that we need exposure....world class exposure. The kind that can only be made by partnering with the biggest marketing nation in the world.

    Financially, we would gain a whole lot more playing someone from New York than, say, someone else in South America. History is only so important until it starts outweighing the benefit. Frankly, 3.5 million dollars for winning the Libertadores isn't a whole lot. Our players are sold and scouted by performances in our Serie A, not the Libertadores/Sudamericana. If you don't think so, take a look at Lucas.

    Possible Result

    Personally, if Brazil were to leave CONMEBOL and join CONCACAF, I would envisioned the other eight CONMEBOL members thinking about having Argentina be the "sole power" in the organization and many would jump ship also. Thus, creating a Pan-american confederation.

    If you have read this far, you have had to start realizing by now that Argentina only has power in CONMEBOL due to history over 100 years ago, not so much because of their footballing power (if any). A move to CONMEBOL would definetily shift power from Argentina-Brazil to USA-Brazil-Mexico.

    I have more thoughts but I would like to see some responses first. What does everyone think?
     
  2. AcesHigh

    AcesHigh Member+

    Nov 30, 2005
    Novo Hamburgo
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    As soon as hypersonic flight and two hours flights to New York become possible...
     
  3. Santista1962

    Santista1962 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2011
    Club:
    Santos FC
    The flights wouldn't be that bad. It seems bad because the Copa Libertadores is compressed and rushed so you are flying out a whole lot in six months. Seven times in total.

    In contract, since the CONCACAF Champions League has the same schedule as its European counterpart, you only would fly three-four times in that same time period. That is very manageable no matter if its Seattle or New York City.
     
  4. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  5. Latin Pride

    Latin Pride Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    In your house
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Brasil is already a top dog in Conmebol, what would be the point of moving to Concacaf? Would be entertaining watching all the goalfests but aside from that it would serve no purpose and do no favors for neither Brasil or Concacaf teams.

    Concacaf teams need to learn how to handle Mexico and USA before even thinking about competing with teams like Brasil.
     
  6. Santista1962

    Santista1962 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2011
    Club:
    Santos FC
    We aren't top dogs. We are co-top dogs. Unfortunetaly, the other one likes to break, mess and degrade the house much too often. There really won't be much difference between here and CONCACAF if you think about it.

    As far as the level of football goes, it isn't as abysmal as you think. The Mexican teams have beaten our clubs and, especially, Argentine teams more times than I can count to remember. Please note that the Mexicans, for the most part, do not take the Libertadores seriously as they won't gain any entry into the CWC.

    If that was the mentality, then the UEFA Champions League can never be realized because there is an abysmal difference between the leagues in England, Spain, Germany and, to some extent, Italy, from the rest.

    But even then, that is too much of a primitive reason. The benefits, especially in marketing and finances, far outweigh any benefits we currently have.
     
  7. FredGavioes

    FredGavioes Member

    Nov 30, 2004
    Boston/MA
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    No.

    Just doesn't make sense.. The Brazilian teams already complain when they go ti mexico.. imagine the national team goung into those Caribbean countries to play there.

    Brazil doesn't need to go to Concacaf.. Conmebol needs to step up their game and starr being more organized!
     
  8. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    concacaf, wont accept neither that the bodyguards, attacked players with arms.....and full the lockers rooms of bloods
     
  9. Latin Pride

    Latin Pride Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    In your house
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Mexico would be the only real competition. Even USA always gets steamrolled by any Brasil team thats put out.

    Atleast even the smaller teams in Conmebol give Brasil competition. As far as England, Spain, etc their already in UEFA they didn't choose to go their on their free will.

    Financially I agree would be great but the federation is doing well enough financially as it is. And quite frankly, it would be really boring to watch Brasil beat Guatamala and El Salvador 8-0 and 9-0 every single time. Atleast in Conmebol, even Bolivia and Venezuela are not a guaranteed wins anymore.
     
  10. Santista1962

    Santista1962 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2011
    Club:
    Santos FC
    That is the point I am trying to get people to understand: CONMEBOL will never step up! They haven't since the 1920's; you really think they are going to now??

    Besides, you overlooked the fact CONCACAF has four times the members of CONMEBOL. That means there will be preliminaries. Worse case scenario, travel will be to Mexico, Canada, US, and a handful of Central American nations. A couple of them really do have modern stadiums.

    Really...between going to La Paz or Montevideo (both cases, with stadiums so old they are crumbling) and going to Panama or Jamaica (which have decent stadiums) which would one choose?

    Also, traveling to North America is not a big deal.

    It is in the Libertadores because it is the UEFA Champions League's fourth qualifying round, group stage and final stage, with a two-legged final, being compressed into 5-6 months.

    With just one CONCACAF Champions League, which follows the timeline of its European counterpart (meaning a full season), the travel is very manageable. That is why the AFC Champions League works (which have distances far greater than what we would travel.

    Never mind that, economically, the North, with the exception of us, are far powerful than anything here.
     
  11. Santista1962

    Santista1962 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2011
    Club:
    Santos FC
    What difference is that from now?

    The only one that is any real competition is Argentina and even that is getting stale. Sao Paulo, the city, have the Libertadores and Sudamerican presiding in the same city. A few hours away, the Recopa can be found in Santos. With luck, the CWC will be making its way to the Paulista capital.

    Even a blind squirrel with just a paw and a hind leg finds a nut every once in a while. It wouldn't be much different in CONCACAF.

    Again...we will not be facing everyone. CONCACAF has 40+ members so the qualifiers will have phases and we would only be facing 6-8 teams in the final stage of qualification. None of them are 7-0 pushovers.

    As far as money goes...if I had a company and I had a choice between a 30% profit and a 250% profit, which would I choose?

    Will I stay with the 30% just because it is getting me by?
     
  12. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    cof cof cof uruguay is the champion of america cof cof cof

    cof cof cof parguay and argentina was at good at brazil in the world cup cof cof cof
     
    It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  13. Latin Pride

    Latin Pride Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    In your house
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The difference now is that teams like Uruguay, Paraguay, Colombia, and Chile are far higher quality then teams like El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Even Bolivia is a stiffer opponent then the average Concacaf team.

    And Argentina is far higher quality then Mexico, your absolutely nuts if you can't see the difference between both confederations.
     
    condor11 and pepinointer repped this.
  14. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    the civilians brazilians




    i thibnk that the guiltys were argentinians tooo....
     
  15. Santista1962

    Santista1962 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2011
    Club:
    Santos FC
    In response to this, I have been on google looking at friendly matches played between clubs of both federations and the majority of them were won by CONCACAF teams. Saprissa has beaten Nacional, Universitario, tied Olimpia and beaten U. Catolica. Olimpia of Honduras defeated a Colombian team. New York Red Bulls beat Santos in their stadiums inauguration. Granted, those are friendlies but those are the only things we have.

    The main point is that any benefits in CONMEBOL are severily outweighted by the costs of staying here. Even half the benefits of CONCACAF outweight any and all benefits, past and present, that we get in CONMEBOL.
     
  16. Gilmar

    Gilmar Member

    May 25, 2012
    Rio de Janeiro
    Do you even watched your own video? If you had done that, you could clearly see who started this confusion... Stop being just a stupid troll, it isn't affecting anyone.


    @thread: I don't know... Mexican teams also aren't the most behaved ones. Also, i think this is the kind of ideia that is very hard to become true. Never underestimate the inertia of CBF.

    I'm sincerily more and more despondent with these CONMEBOL competitions... As you said, the organization only will get better when something of biblical proportions happens.
     
  17. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    man i used the video to show that in concaf teams, also do scandals..........but your nationalism is to big, that you start to insulted me without reason, because i have a different opinion....and you dont understand my point............you have to know that any legal system , accept retaliations and use of force, no matters who starts....are you 5 years old?? that sya to the teacher, i kicked him because he hitted me.... ......


    gremio, destriyed locker rooms of bogota 3 weeks ago....and punch the referee......beasts!!! HYPOCRITAL
     
  18. Gilmar

    Gilmar Member

    May 25, 2012
    Rio de Janeiro
    Haha, this is the first time in my life that I'm called of nationalist. lol

    I'm not defending the use of retaliation, but be on the SPFC guards skins... Someone is punching and throwing wooden benches on you and the only thing you would do is stay there and wait?

    The investigations will say the final word and I hope that we can find out what really happened there. And if had any kind of abuse by the guards I want that they pay for it.

    But what I'm telling is that Tigre players started the confusion and I'm tired of every year the argentine teams doing the same thing.
     
  19. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    so, that was an excuse to say to me stupid? respect me man.....

    no......but, walls full of blood, a player with a chickbone inflame, the second coach with a cut in his face, galmarini his arm with 10 points.....................that is a retaliation, it was unporportional......the country that will organize the next world cup, cant do that......im talking about images ........i dont see the fisrt body guard and sao pualo player hurt.....or they are from steel.......
     
  20. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    My fellow Brasileiro, I appreciate your nationalism, but this idea isn't feasible. It'd be way too much of a hassle for Brazilian teams. Besides, CONCACAF teams wouldn't want the entry of an extremely tough opponent, Brazil, in World Cup qualifying competition.

    As well, CONMEBOL would lose tons of money (and prestige) without Brazil.
     
  21. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    It's not every year. It may feel like every year because it happened twice in 2010 against Brazilian teams, and once in that same year against a Peruvian team in Argentina (Lanus).
     
  22. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    mmm in this moment......only is a brazilian player in the top 10 of footballers (he havent debut in europe)

    uruguay , represented better thatn yours in the last world cup......


    brazil football, in havent been just progress in the last years........you cant depend the whole life of been arrogant.......
     
  23. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Five World Cups doesn't make Brazil a powerhouse? :eek:
     
  24. Gilmar

    Gilmar Member

    May 25, 2012
    Rio de Janeiro
    Sry, I misread your last post. I had tought you was trying to troll in this thread.

    The guards can be wrong, but I think they got what they deserved... Coming to another country with the intention of causing confusion, what they think we are? And SPFC guards has any relation with the World Cup. They won't be part of the security system.
     
  25. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Would never happen. FIFA would NEVER let that happen/Grondona. So much money would be lost, Concacaf too wouldn't know how to handle a 'prince' in Brasil. You guys think things are peachy in Concacaf? Fields are SHIT, ref's are WORSE than Conmebol, Fans in Guatemala, Mexico, Honduras, etc. All are just as BAD as those in Argentina. Only good thing, would be Brasilian clubs would win the concacaf champ. league everytime... but that too would probably never happen because of that.
     

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