At what youth age level are we actually beginning to teach kids how to play a realistic model of the senior game? U7, U9, U11, U13? I really don't feel like we're teaching "soccer" until at least U11 (8v8/9v9) and even then, the 8v8/9v9 model is drastically different (in America) from the 11v11 model we all aspire to teach.
Any time you have unlimited substitutions you are not playing the adult sport. But 3v3 with pug goals is a model of aspects of the senior game. So is 1v1. Let's take 1v1. It is a realistic model of a player taking on another player in the adult game. It also can be a realistic model of the first attacker versus first defender roles. In my view we are not teaching kids to play 8v8 soccer. We are teaching kids to play the senior game using training sessions and 8v8 soccer games. I have said before that I viewed my youth 433 system in matches as circuit training. When I was planning my first season of U10g (in 1993-yikes), I thought of what the senior game was like (which for me was drawing on playing competitively against college teams in the early 1980's). Then on that basis as well as my understanding of differences in the women's game, I planned out what I wanted to teach at the U10g level. Here are what I consider key elements of the adult game- 1 ball, 2 goals, 11-a-side multiple styles of play multiple systems of play contact sport offside rule field and goal size possible 120 minutes with overtime with added time for stoppages random movements of various kind and length and direction and intensity running clock limited substitutes and no return pressing zone defenses zonal marking situational man-to-man marking creative attacking play combination passing 90 minute match fitness--high level physical demands two-footed attacking technical ability for everyone everyone attacks and defends quickness tactical speed compact shape interchange within and between lines mental toughness two-way flank players
When they have the skill set to play it? My son's U11 club team played a team in a tournament this year that played at a relatively high level (admittedly this is the only team I can say this about). I went and watched our town's High School girls team play in the state championship on Saturday and it didn't look much at all like the senior game. Honestly almost nothing but kick and run soccer, not a single moment of real quality skill, very few intelligent or well-placed passes, and essentially no combination play. Really little better, if at all, than what I see well-coached U11 academy teams playing on a regular basis.
U11 Barca playing 7v7 that is a realistic model of an adult 433 system with good movement and support. This is not mindless pattern play. They are playing better soccer than most adults I know. Just slower due to the physical limits of children.
I've seen some similar play from (IIRC) Ajax academy kids around a similar age. Parents would be having a conniption at the level my son's U11 teams play if kids even attempted to play out of the back like that let alone pass across the back but a lot of that is because of the lack of movement and/or poor ability of the kids to pick out a pass means it's often a recipe for turning over the ball in a dangerous position. The movement of the players off the ball really is good and again from what I've seen is often enough all but absent even at the HS level.
I'd say probably once we reach 9v9. Before then, kids are tasked with playing very broad roles. Such as a central midfielder who is a playmaker, holding mid, attacking mid etc. A little older and we can start specializing a bit positionally, so we can do more of resembling an adult game. But we'll hit 9v9 in a year or two so probably 14 or 15 should start resembling adult soccer. Although I see a lot of teams at U11 and younger who look like mini-adult teams. For better or worse.
I noticed in that video there was a lot of open space. Even with my girls playing u9 at 6v6, there never seems to be a lot of space available. Granted, most don't have the leg strength to switch the field, but when they aren't even given the option (provided they actually remember to not play 2 feet from each other), what encouragement do they have to seek that space when it actually is provided? I'm not saying play 6v6 on a full sized adult field, but at least in my region I think we need to rethink the size of the field. The u11 and 12 teams play 8v8 on only a slightly larger field (maybe a yard or two more each way). I'd like to see us using the larger size. We just seem so cramped that even being open isn't really open. It's not encouraging much off ball movement and there is rarely any accountability for defenders to be positioned correctly when it's rare that they can be isolated. It leads to a lot of kick and run. I don't allow my girls to do that unless it's clearing the ball or a breakaway so they tend to get used to being 1v2 in a lot of situations. Shoot, futsal gives us more space (relatively) and allows better ball and player movement. Though it gets stagnant since the older kids play on the same court size. Watching them was less about ball control and more about bowling over opponents. On a side note, if you watched the Houston-KC game the other day, I'd have to answer the initial question with age 3.
Larger fields are a double-edged sword. It encourages longer passes just to cover ground and kids spend more time just running in space instead of being engaged with the ball.
I agree. It would have to still be appropriately sized. I just know ours are too little and lead to bunch ball no matter what you do. Something that still encourages actual movement but not so big to be, as you said, just kicking it and running.
One huge criticism about our older players is that they can't play in small spaces. We have to do a better job teaching our players how to maximize space. We play in an appropriately sized field and we still have a tendency to crowd each other out. Soccer is about controlling, creating, and destroying space—I need to help my players understand that better. I have kids give bad angles of support and their idea of "maximizing" space is to stand a yard or more inside the touchline. Why are they so afraid of that touchline?
Sometimes, when a kid lacks confidence in their receiving ability, the touchline seems like the edge of a 50-foot cliff.
Some of this may be "baggage" they bring with them from prior experiences. Different sports have different rules, something well meaning parents don't always appreciate. Or prior coaches teaching by giving tactical instructions so players don't learn principles of play through guided discovery. Compactness on defense and the opposite--width and depth--on attack. In the adult game with the large fields, they also learn that you defend and attack the "important" space. Playing once on a 100 yard wide field did the trick for me. And playing on a 140 yard long field highlighted weaknesses in defensive organization and tactics. In SSG the fields are often small enough to make pressing everywhere easy. Something to keep in mind in making adjustments.
It depends who s training them and how many assistants you have. They can look like real players at 9 years old if they started real training at 6 yrs old under good coaching and have a parent who played.
Interesting that Barca employs a 2-3-1, while Valencia employs a 3-2-1. In my area, the U10 and U11 teams play 7v7, and most teams utilize a fairly flat 3-3, which I've always found odd. I've always favored the 2-3-1 and thought it should be played similarly to how Barca plays it, with outside mids showing wide for the ball and having fairly limited defensive duties. The center mid plays like a box-to-box center mid with significant defensive duties. Most importantly, both teams are playing with three lines, thereby allowing a connection among all three. A flat 3-3 leaves the middle of the pitch pretty barren and doesn't provide any real means of connecting the defensive three with the offensive three. This leads to a lot of long balls in order to bridge the gap between the lines.
Coaching youth soccer is like building a house. When a house is under construction, it makes no sense to walk up during the laying of the foundation and ask whether what you are looking at "resembles a house." It's not supposed to resemble a house yet. It's supposed to resemble a foundation. Relating this back to coaching youth soccer, different people have different views of exactly what constitutes the foundation of the soccer player. Some view it as general athletic ability, like balance and coordination. For me, that is the foundation of an athlete, not of a soccer player, and it can and should be developed through varied activities outside of formal soccer training (e.g., playing on the playground, during recess, during PE, playing with siblings, playing other sports, etc.). Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right, or maybe it depends on the kid. I know that I have three boys who are all very active. They play with each other all the time, play multiple sports and spend a lot of time developing general athletic abilities outside of formal soccer training. I'm sure there are lots of kids who are far less active and need remedial athletic development before they can train for soccer. But I've coached around 200 kids in the U5-U8 age range, and haven't seen many of those kinds of kids (maybe 5-10). I won't quibble over that here. Suffice it to say that I agree that a good athletic foundation (like balance and coordination) is extremely important, I just view it as something to be developed outside of formal soccer training. For me, the ultimate foundation of a soccer player is close-control dribbling. The building of the soccer player can't truly begin until the foundation of close control dribbling is laid. And, again for me, it's best to lay the foundation of close-control dribbling as early as possible. It can begin as early as U3 or U4, and I consider the foundation to be laid as soon as the player is adept at close control dribbling under pressure, including the ability to properly use the body to shield the ball. In my experience, the vast majority of players can reach this level by U7 (age 6-7) if they begin working at it in earnest as a U5. Once the player is adept at close control dribbling (whenever that might be), you can begin to build the rest of the house. If you start trying to build the house before then, the best you can hope for is a house built on an unstable foundation. To say that you are not really teaching soccer until U11 or some other advanced age is the same as saying that you are not really building a house until you are erecting the walls, or putting on the roof. Each step in the building/teaching/coaching process is critical and is a necessary pre-requsite to moving to the next stage.
I don't necessarily agree with everything you said, but that opening paragraph deserves two reps if I could give it. Well said!
Agreed and well stated. Totally agree. But, you keep re-stating this like everyone disagrees that you should be teaching close dribbling. Who is disagreeing? Just because I believe in general movement education, it doesn't mean I'm still not spending 90% of my practice on dribbling with a ball and 1v1s. This is not my message with this thread. I'm really teaching real soccer at U2. I'm just not expecting the players to produce anything resembling "the world game," played by professionals, until at least U11/12/13 - depending on the technique and insight of the players.
good post coach dcole... I think if I could get Morgan Freeman to read it to some theatrical background music it would be just about perfect.
Then why are we even having this disagreement? I don' think anything would argue with that. But that isn't what the first sentence of the original post: "At what youth age level are we actually beginning to teach kids how to play a realistic model of the senior game?" says. You ask when do we teach it? We begin to teach it every time a kid touches a soccer ball. It certainly doesn't look like The Real Thing(tm) for a while, though.
Notice that they're playing across one half of the stadium's field. That stadium according to Wikipedia is 115 yds long x 80 yds wide, So those U11s are playing on a roughly 40 long x 50 wide field (the left touchline is in some distance from the adult goal line.) Those penalty areas aren't much longer than other fields' goal boxes as well. Almost no dedicated youth fields here have dimensions like that. They're mostly 60x40 or 70x50 and up. That really opens things up for those teams to play and use that width compared to a relatively narrow field most of us see on a regular basis. It also de-emphasizes long ball/direct play in favor of possession. The left midfielder in the 2-3-1 hugs that line, creating a lot of space and forces the defenders to not play as compact as they'd want.
(Not that it's important to anything, mind you, but...) Why are you assuming that the length of their field is half of the width of the adult field? I think that field looks a lot closer to 60 yards long than 40 yards long.