Still not him at his best though. That persistent knee injury and that treble winning Manchester United midfield did not help either.
So let me get this straight, Zidane sending an easy dangerous pass to the hands of the GK, sending an easy dangerous low cross to the worst possible position, loosing the ball 5 times out of 10 times that he touched it, is not "worse" than some of the semi-final displays by CRonaldo or Messi? Ok. In season 2010/2011 Lio Messi played a great semi-final against none other than Real Madrid. Did Zinedine Zidane ever played a Champions League semi-final at that level? I don't think so, not even when he won the Champions League with Real Madrid, was his semi-final performance even comparable to that of Messi. A semi-final "not worse" than some semi-final displays by CR7? I have always considered CR7 a player who does not produce great performances on the big occasion, for that reason, I find your comparison with CR7 to be rather redundant, because many players (including Zidane) have had much better semi-finals than CR7. My point was that James said that "Zidane never failed to deliver". I think that video clearly shows, that Zidane (for whatever the reason) failed to deliver in a Champions League semi-final. Not only that, but Zidane also failed to deliver (for whatever the reason) in a Champions League final. This is well known by Juventus fans, yet Zidane fans thoroughly ignore it. How do you explain that the very same season that Alessandro Del Piero missed an entire season due a career-threatening knee injury, that Juventus finished in 6th place despite Zidane playing most games? Yet, for some reason, Zidane "never failed to deliver" for any of his clubs? It's just a false claim, Zidane did failed to deliver many times for Juventus, you only need to type "zidane juventus flop" on google, to find the vast array of articles on that subject. Same story as that first video. The fact that everything that Zidane did in over 90 minutes of play, can be resumed in just 3 minutes, just tells you, that the midfield area was dominated by Roy Keane. Should I not place a large part of the blame on Zidane? And if so, why? Had that been Riquelme instead of Zidane, I can guarantee you that the Argentine press would've murdered him. Yet, for some reason, when it's Zidane, people just describe it as a "not so bad" performance. I mean, if this is not bias or double standard, I don't know what is.
You don't specify an example of Cronaldo his performances so I can't comment on that. You now pick one of Messi his best semi-final performances, possibly the very best. But I didn't say that. I didn't say Zidane had a better display as "Messi his best performances". I said that it is not worse as the worst performances of Cronaldo and Messi at the semi-final stage. Instead of taking the tie against Real Madrid in 2011, you can take the tie against Chelsea in 2009 (particularly first leg), Internazionale in 2010 (particularly first leg), Chelsea in 2012 and Bayern Munich in 2013. Note that Zidane was here seriously injured, and we know what Messi did with a strained muscle against Bayern Munich. Yes, I know that he and Cronaldo also played excellent big games in injured condition but so did Zidane at times. Anyway, before the word 'moron' is used again; I wanted to make clear that I didn't make a comparison with the best semi-final performances of Cronaldo or Messi (or another one of their generation).
Many of those passes were rather bad, yes, agreed. Hence this is not by any stretch of the imagination a good performance. (Would however like you to note that even with a knee injury and playing against a team who would go on to win a treble, for a not so good game in that first leg Zidane still lost the ball not more often than Riquelme did in that game against Inter that you had posted earlier, which as you had put it was one of the highlights of Riquelme's career alongside his game vs Real Madrid in the Intercontinental Cup) Also, I am not sure those videos show all the touches of Zidane since the pre-assist(in the first leg) is not shown nor the two times that Zidane was called offside, once wrongly while being clear through on goal (in the second leg). In any case, as Puck explained, he was not comparing it to the 'best' of modern era SF performances, rather to the 'worst' which is also what he wrote in that post of his that you responded to. James' claim was probably from a perspective of 'going to a big club and managing to make a first team place for himself'. Did Zidane fail on that count? (Saying this since I have read some of James' posts earlier wherein he has highlighted matches where Zidane failed, in his opinion). Also, the point was you wrongly claiming Zidane to having been 'invisible' in this tie to counter what you felt was a wrong claim on James' part. Thats like the pot calling the kettle black, since Zidane cannot be 'invisible' and also have a pre-assist and an assist and the chance of apparently having at least a couple of assists more of which one is cleared from the goal-line. Regarding the 3 minute length of the clip, I explained earlier and will reiterate again that neither clip seems to show all the actions or outcomes of those actions of Zidane, which he performed in those matches. As for finding something to place a large part of the blame on for the loss, please note that in the 2nd leg Juventus still did have a 2 goal lead (with an assist and a pre-assist from the 'not so good' Zidane over the 2 legs till that point in time) which they needed to defend for the next 80 minutes, but which they failed to do. Hence, the blame, if any, rests on the shoulders of the Juventus defense.
I don't get it? Did I ever claimed that you said that? Did I ever claimed that Messi has never had a bad performance in an important game? I was responding to James who said that "Zidane never failed to deliver" when it is well documented, that many Juventus fans do argue the point that Zidane was not very good with Juventus. The fact of the matter is, at the end of the day, that Zidane having a so-so game for Juventus, happened much more often than Messi having a so-so game for Barcelona. Or do you see Barcelona selling Messi for 100 million euros? Would Juventus had sold Zidane (in hi peak years) had Zidane delivered great performances consistently week in week out? I honestly don't think so. My belief is, that some Juventus fans, about 40% or 50% of them, were not happy with Zidane, the owner of the club himself was not happy with Zidane (note: he even went as far as saying that "Zidane was not very useful"), so I don't think Juventus hesitated that much when good money was offered for Zidane. I do not think that Zidane "delivered" anything remarkable at Juventus, he was not a flop, but he was nothing great either. James would argue that "Riquelme failed at Barca" without acknowledging the fact that Barca was a very dysfunctional team the year Riquelme played for them, and also, without acknowledging the fact that Zidane did not exactly "delivered the goods" for a great Juventus team that had just won the Champions League just the year prior to Zidane joining them. I must ask: why? What is the reason for this bias in which you bash Riquelme for "failing" at a bad team, but you do not bash Zidane for "not succeeding" at a great team? If this is not a double standard, I don't know what is. The way James makes it sound, "Zidane never failed to deliver the goods", you would think that Zidane did great things for Juventus, when the fact is that many Juventus fans have rather negative things to say about Zidane. In comparison, not many Man Utd fans have negative things to say about CR7, and not many Barcelona fans have negative things to say about Messi. Why? Why is it that many Juventus fans do have negative things to say about Zidane? This is not something that should necessarily be reduced to just a handful of disappointing performances, I think consistency also counts, not only the odd off-game in an important match. In terms of consistency, CR7 at Man Utd, and Messi at Barca, are much superior to Zidane at Juve. Yet, if you only listened to Zidane fanboys, you would think that Zidane at Juve was an absolute beast comparable to CR7 at Man Utd or comparable to Ribery at Bayern Munich, when indeed many Juve fans would disagree with such a view point. This is the bottom line of this fairly simple argument, in its simplest form..... 1st ~ Riquelme is an absolute "failure" after a rather disappointing season (note: yes, just one season) at a very dysfunctional football club. 2nd ~ Zidane is hailed as a "success" after some rather debatable years with Juventus. This forces me to think the following, 1st ~ Comparing Zidane's five years (note: yes, 5 f-cking years!!) at Juve, against Roman's one year at Barca.... is biased. 2nd ~ Describing Zidane's time at Juve as a "success" (note: like James did) is...... biased. Therefore, I conclude, that James's claim that "Zidane never failed to deliver, whereas Riquelme failed at Barca", is indeed a biased and flawed argument, which should not be taken seriously by any objective person. Do you disagree with my conclusion regarding James's claim? If so, why?
Do not TWIST the term! Never failed is different from "success". Never failed to deliver iss different form "deliver good stuffs" I never said Zidane had "great or good" success years at Juve! Did I? However, with his 5 years there he won 2 times best UEFA UCL teams and 2 times as best SerieA (foreign) players. He was 3times in TOP3 Ballon Dor WPOY and won 1 ballon Dor + 2 WPOY! Now if he FAILED at JUve in those 5 years , do NOT tell me ADIDAS paid FIFA and Ballon Dor and also Serie A for Zidane to win those awards??? PLZZZZZZ Now back to Riquleme, what had he done to WIN people votes in those awards besides, your own WORDINGS (without any clear data, back ups)???
Ouff .. I forgot to highlight that Zidane might be criticsized for his twice playing at UCL final 96 and 97. But two different things: 1- If we compared to other greats (legends) then it might turn into a negative 2- now if in general speaking, if one used that and say he FAILED to deliver that's a nonesense/ because he was (arguably) the leadig man for Juve to be in that final, alomg with Del piero in 97 One might say he was NOT as 'decisive' in those big games there ... agree, but hey, in those years Zidane was barely started getting into his early Stardom.... I think Zidane best years were 98, 00,02,03, arguably 97 and 04