Zico did play a bit too long in SA. I mean he had one excellent season in europe but he didnt show he could stay at his level year after year outside SA. Lets be honest it is harder to maintain longevity in europe than SA, would he have scored nearly 450 (competive) goals in europe? maybe, but its an unanswered question. Zico was more complete individually but zidane playing style was arguably more pleasing on the eye. Zidane won the champions league, european championship, world cup, la liga in spain, serie a in italy, hes tried and tested at hardest level throughout his career. For people who critisise his word cup win dont forget it was zidane that won it for france in the final. Apart from one action he came close to repeating it i will leave with this [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzmmJEQCLME"]Euro 2000 - Zidane France - YouTube[/ame]
You guys still play the eurocentic card. The brasileiro in the 80's was arguably better than the euro leagues. How come a second rate league produced one of the best teams in WC history (Brazil 82)?! and we all know how Flamengo spanked the great Liverpool, so from where this unwarranted arrogance comes from. I mean if Zico was a big fish in a small pond, how come there were riots by Udinese fans threatning to part from Italy if the italian FA stands in the way of acquiring him! And why was he welcomed and treated like a king in Udine? http://www.itv.com/sport/football/championsleague/news/remembering-zicos-time-at-udinese-28477/ So Zico didnt need to prove anything in Europe, but he actually did. He scored 19 goals in 24 games in his first season in Italy = 0.79 gpg, averaging more than Platini the top-scorer in that season, even though playing in much worse team. Beauty is subjective. Useless in ranking players. I never really enjoyed Zidane's game unlike some of my friends, he was a little too indirect for me, passing it when the right choice would have been to shoot the damn thing, complicated things yet people kept babbling about how simple his football was. But does that take away anything from his legacy? NO. I thought this argument used by Zidane fans was exposed a long time ago. Anyhow Zico was more effective than Zidane in the WC. For example lets compare them in terms of passing since Zidane was renowned for his vision. Zico's 2 through balls in 82 and 86, the latter came after just coming as a sub and being out of form beats any pass Zidane did in his 3 WCs if Iam not mistaken, especially considering his match against Brazil 06 his passes were off and heavy even though it is considered his best game in the WC.
Lets look at romarios career in brazil: 33 year old romario scores nearly 50 in over 50 games 34 year old romario scores over 60 goals playing over 70 games 35 year old romario scores 40 playing nearly 40 games 36 year old romario scores over 40 goals playing over 50 games 37 year old romario scores nearly 20 goals playing over 20 games 38 year old romario scores over 10 goals playing over 20 games 39 year old romario scores over 30 goals playing over 40 games 40 year old romario scores nearly 10 goals playing over 10 games 41 year old romario scores nearly 20 goals playing nearly 20 games Aproximately 280 goals in 300 games in his late 30s. Only about 33 of these games were not part of one of brazils main competitions and only about 31 goals scored in those games. Great goal scorer though he was it seems unlikely he would maintain his exceptional standard like this through his late 30s in one of europes top leagues. Since turning 33 Ian wright and Alan shearer managed 62 and 61 goals compared to romarios 280 in brazil (or 250 if you like) Since turing 33 raul has scored 32 goals in 77 games playing in europes 3rd/4th league, in a slightly longer time period playing in Brazil romario managed about 100 goals. Of course romario was in a different class to them, but sorry age catches everyone including the greats even gerd muller ran out of steam by 33 I know these stats dont prove my point, but answer this – why do players go to play in brazil when they have passed their physical peak? For me its a valid point how many goals would zico have scored if he didnt play so long in brazil. I also wonder if romario could have broke peles record if he played his prime in brazil as the 1000 goal man just happened to do
This is misleading, like I said The Brasileiro was always one of the top leagues before the 90s/late 80s when all the stars stayed home. So comapring Romario's record in the 90s when brazilian leagues became weaker against Zico's and Pele's is totally wrong. For starters just check Zico gpg with Brazil and Udinese if you dismiss his record with Flamengo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zico
Romario for sure was on the top 3 center forward of all the times, and u are using him to generalize a argument? Romario had the incredible ability to adapt his style due to his age, playing only inside the big area and spending less energy as possible after his 33.
As you stated Zico played most of his career in Brazil. Your statement about him not maintaining longevity in Europe is completely irrelevant. 1 - Zico went to Europe at the age of 30. You can't compare longevity of a player who starts his career there at 20 with one at 30. 2 - He left Italy not because he couldn't cope with the game, but because Udinese management didn't build a strong team capable of competing for the title as they had promised and the Italian Government's legal process against him.
sure but id still find it strange he had better goal returns than he ever did in his prime playing in europe
I take burcos point about brazilian football being better in Zico's time, the history of brazilian club football isnt something im knowledgable about although i still supsect it wasnt as physically demanding as the main euro leagues. I might be wrong but it just seems to me that its tradtional in brazil to have a more "fun" and less rigourous playing style than it is in europe
I don't see a fit comparison among the two: Zidane has always been a midfield director; Zico played exactly in the same role (second forward) Messi plays; great creators-finishers in the last 20-25 meters, occasionally orchestrating plays at midfield; Platini is the only player I can remember (from 1976 on) who could do both; Maradona also to a lesser extent (although very close in position to Zico-Messi).
Gotta be Zidane, best big game performer I have ever seen. I know it's cool to denigrate him but I don't get why. I know S.Americans like to hawk back to Zico's win against Liverpool but I've heard Mark Lawrensen and Alan Hansen talk about the Toyota Cup on the BBC and dismissive isn't the word. I remember Lawrensen saying they never even bothered adjusting to the time difference half the side were basically asleep.
totally WRONG! Did you watch Zico for 500+games in Brazil league or just a few games at WC level? Even at WC level (WC82) he played behind Eder and Serginho Zico was always a true #10 behind at least 2 FW/strikers Only at Udinese he played half and half some as CAM in 4 3 1 2 (behind 2 FW) and soem times as 4 4 1 1 (behind 1 ST) - but those games were less than 20 (over 600+ career games )
Here is one brief about him, one of the greatest #10 in history of football: http://www.dnamilan.com/nemici-storici/zico-arthur-antunes-coimbra.html NOTE all the BOLD part I made ... for his playing style and position, OK? ZICO ARTHUR ANTUNES COIMBRA 13/10/2012 by Enrico Del Bonifazi Looking for new challenges after a successful career, he moved to Udinese in the summer of 1983, the talented Zico, one of the strongest midfielders of all time. Multi-titled with Flamengo, he will never realize his dream of victory in a World Cup despite playing in one of the richest Brazilian national champion. The God of football, just before the spring of 1953, "decides" to give to the many aesthetes of the sport little Arthur Antunes Coimbra (Zico) . A gift from heaven that football fans can not help but appreciate and remember with nostalgia. ... Hard to put in a few lines of its technical characteristics. Zico is adept at dribbling, dribbling, has a mileage game viewing as well as the extraordinary ability to "steal" the time the opponent. offensive is key in a trimmer from the foot of velvet but with the vice of the goals set in the DNA. In short, a sort of magician of football, he can make the ball appear and disappear at will by gloating pleasure of the spectators. With the Rossoneri horizontal stripes conquest 10 championships (3 Brazilian and carioca 7), a Copa Libertadores (in which puts Hit all the decisive goals in the first leg and in the replay at a neutral venue) and Intercontinental (Zico does not go into propitious goal but each of the three networks with which the Flamengo literally pulverizes the very strong Liverpool ) in addition to countless personal titles, like the beauty of thrones 11 consecutive (between the Brazilian league and Rio)as top scorer and three Ballon d'Or South America . His scoring average is frightening, more of a "center" in each game in all competitions, statistics that soars with the shirt of Brazil (52 goals in 72 appearances). Everyone is talking about him as the "Galinho", the chick become a cockerel since its network allows Brazil to overcome England at Wembley after more than half a century, consecrating definitely the "phenomenon" Zico also in Europe. .... Juventus, after an initial interest in the Brazilian decides to continue to focus on Michel Platini and Milan contacted him to seek the re-launch after a dive in Serie A but still not ready to face spending spree. Thus, the playmaker, choose Udine , a really small place, so much to alarm theFootball Association that blocks the transfer waiting to receive from the President Mazza , guarantees the possibility to pay the amount determined (which is around six and a half billion lire, quantifiable now about 3.5 million euro). It triggers the Friulian people that with the languor of good football, it pours into the street with slogans and posters against the Federation. "Either or Zico Austria" shout in chorus the fans unhappy. At the end of the controversy, the deal goes through and becomes a Galinho Udinese player . The number of subscribers rears up dramatically, everyone wants to see Zico who, after having already enchanted the audience of Friuli during the summer friendlies, returns the palates with delicious played, goals in bunches and a sampling of body feints worthy of a ' encyclopedia of football . Zico puts Hit 19 goals (at the time record for a rookie in the Italian league) and out of many Italian stadiums, Genoa and Catania, greeted by cheers authentic. Legendary become its penalties from the edge to climb over the barrier and the diagonal right cross. I well remember one morning in January of 1984, my father decided to take me to the stadium of San Siro to Milan-Udinese . "Let's see Zico," he says, and the irresistible sound of those words, sketch on the bed ready to go. My faith gives me hope for the Rossoneri in a victory for Milan but how can I, a ten year old boy, do not be fascinated by the amount of skill and elegance on display from ace Brazilian. Five minutes from time the Rossoneri lead by 3 goals to 1 and the Friuli brings its own signature. Then comes the act that no one can forget the slalom with Zico serving Causio the edge of the area. The baron returns the ball with a "spoon" that Baresi, fearing the cutting of the Brazilian behind him, tries to stop with his hand on the edge of the area. The ball still ends at number 10 black and white and with a spectacular reverse bags the score 3 to 2 ... will end up with a 3 to 3 capable to feed my cravings for show but not those of victory, however unforgettable. The march of the Friulian team (always in the upper echelons of the league) stops abruptly when the Galinho is injured during a friendly . ... Zico remains in the world of football as a coach , an activity that (with high and low) allows him to still live the excitement of the game that changed his life. This is, in brief, the story of one of the largest numbers 10 all-time, able to fascinate the world with his goals, his kicks and his inventions ballistic. Probably the World Cup slipped remain his biggest regret. The only limitation in the field (given the stature) is to be regarded in the header, but in the hearts of football fans, for a similar talent, limits do not exist. Henry Bonifazi
I covered/attended that match @ the National Stadium in Tokyo back in '81. IDK who was more asleep from the jet lag: the Liverpool players or yours truly...
I am not too sure of what you wrote there as truth! Besides Pele, Zico Romario, ... (all top legends) whoelsecould have maintained great longevity in SA? In counterI could name easily 10 times the names in Europe from Puskas, Di Stefano, Eusebio, Cruijff Beckenabuer, Muller,Overath, Giggs Scholes, Boby Charlton Zidane Totti Del Pierro Raul Xavi ...in attack. to Yahsin Krol, Fachetti Baresi Maldini Zoff Zanetti... in defense They surely had different style but longevity is belong to individual fitness and gifted from GOD. Should Van Basten, Ronaldo Ronaldinho Weah.... have had longer longevity if playing in SA? I don;t think so or remained "unanswered" One thing was CLEAR about Zico talents was that he had made more or less same STATS as he was with Brazil and Udinese .... (note that he was not fully fit there that 1st season and was becoming homesick inlast half season ...there) Lastly, Zico was among those "rare legends who DEFINE the term "beautiful football" that not many could have re-immitated..... maybe NEVER EVER? Zidane "looks more artistic" in his moves but often less effective than Zico's movement surely
why? it's a yes and no question. Before mid 80's : NO From 80's to now : YES That'swhy Pele's or Zico's susscess in SA were real. No one can erase that. Even Romario longevity in SA from mid 90's, his achievement 1000goals there is like another historical record. It was not like any one can accumulate 10years with 500goals eaily there? NO Many called EPL (2000's on ward) is a hardest league since they are very speedy and physical, YET a Giggs, Scholes, Henry , Lampard, Gerrard, Shearer, A Cole, Terry , Rooney ,,, could make 10+years there. Do not tell me tehy were "exceptional" type like Puskas, Cruijff or Pele?
I'm not talking about 'harder' and 'easier' by the way. The Brazilian league does have features unknown to Europe which are a challenge in itself (like irregular schedules and lack of really stacked teams with dominant support casts). But for longevity I think European leagues were always (generally speaking) more physical and therefore not conducive to long careers (esp. from the 1960s onwards). It was a reason why Pelé didn't go to Europe, because of the rougher defending and so on and also the pitches. You mentioned a few names above; I think surely Van Basten his shortened career had something to do with what strikers had to endure in the Serie A of that time. Frequent injuries (and recoveries) as a result of contacts have also a long term effect on the body, it exhausts the body more rapidly and thus shortens the longevity.
Yeah, but I doubt Romario would have reached that record in Europe alone. Another thing to add. The're more matches and competitions played in Brazil then in any European league except for England. More competition and matches means more chance of scoring a lot. But of course, there's a flip side to the coin. More competition and matches means more strain on players. And more strain on players obviously doesn;t help longevity either. So perhaps whether SA vs Europe is easier for longevity is a subjective discussion. I guess it depends on the era. In perspective, in terms of toughness of league: Brazil 80's>Europe 80's (Longevity less likely in Brazil) Europe 90's>Brazil 90's (Longevity likely in Brazil)