Youth Yanks Abroad, '97-'00 YOBs: 2018/19 Thread

Agreed. He deserves a Gold Cup call up, but I don't think he should go for the reasons you stated. I'd prefer he find a new loan team and hunker down.

 

Gold Cup does not make sense for Euro players in search of club stability. It negates their participation in preseason and isn't a high enough level of a tournament to turn many heads on short notice.

 

Plus...................one can argue that playing some games for the worst team in the Eredevisie doesn't actually warrant inclusion.

 

what about the worst team in the prem?

 

Worst team in the prem is better than the worst team in the eredevisie...........

Dont' get me wrong. I'd be happy if EPB got a callup for the Gold Cup. I just don't see it happening, and as others have stated..................I'm not sure its best for him at the moment. Same can be said for CCV. Both are really in the same predicament. They have to get their club careers sorted and move to an organization that's invested in their development. That's priority #1.

I mean, a combo of Aaron Long, Walker Zimmerman, Matt Miazga, and John Brooks can handle Guatemala at the Gold Cup. The oldest of those guys is 26. Its the "in their primes" group as we start thinking about WCQing.

Perhaps from a USMNT/USYNT perspective, we'll have a U23 camp/games this summer for the likes of EPB, CCV, Glad, Trusty, and company as they prepare for Olympic qualifying in the fall.

 

I don’t know if it wasn’t clear, but I’m not saying this because he’s played a string of games in a row.

 

Has anything been actually done by FIFA since this was in the news in November?

I have a hard time believing that FIFA would do anything against the wishes of clubs like Chelsea and Man City. Historically, these are the teams that have been given exceptions and bee protected by FIFA.

Any ban would probably not apply to U23 players, so EPB would not be effected. But it might force a move for guys like Steffan and Miazga.

 

If it is between Omar and EPB, give me EPB all day.

I keep hearing how Sargent and Weah were not called in because they are not getting enough minutes. Whatever one thinks about that, it is contradicted by Lewis in the recent camp. But EPB (and CCV and Robinson) certainly is getting minutes and I find U23 to be a dubious proposition for these players that will be starters somewhere next October.

 

I don't want to dig too deep into this since this discussion has been beat to death. But I do think Lewis' situation is different from Weah and Sargent's only because Lewis played in the January camp. Since Lewis played in the January camp, there is a familiarity that Berhalter said he wanted to build off of. I mean I don't think people think Lovitz is one of our best LBs, but he was called in because he built off the january camp.

I don't really have a strong opinion either way about Weah and Sargent getting called into the senior team, I see both sides.

 

I only brought that situation up to point out this "getting minutes" thing, as tenuous as it is for Weah and Sargent compared to Lewis or Ramirez or Morris; just didn't apply to EPB or CCV. That EPB, starting 7 games in a row, is supposedly more important to his GC chances than anything according to GB.

We will see if GB thinks Lewis is better than Weah or Lovitz better than Robinson. I think people assume what GB thinks but he has never said anything besides that the players in the March camp are his preferred 23.

 

If there was the Olympic Qualifying or Olympics, I'd say that EPB should be sent there. I would say the same thing for Pulisic, McKennie, Adams. I think Adams should play for the U-20 WC team.

There isn't any big U-23 tournament coming up for our U-23's, so I think EPB should be sent to the senior National Team. We saw last summer that Man City doesn't make much of his loanee status. They loaned him out at the end of the window, and then took a long time with his registration at Breda, so he ended up missing the beginning of the season. Why wouldn't that happen again? He should focus on the National Team.

If we consider the options, it appears like Brooks and Long are the starters. Miazga is one of the back ups. What sense does it make to call in Zimmerman or Parker instead of EPB? EPB is better than both. Zimmerman and Parker are not players whose games will hold up well against top quality competition. EPB's game will, and I think its important to start giving him games. The more games he plays for the NT, the more he'll benefit when the games are important for qualification and the World Cup in 2022. He should be a starter for the NT by the end of the cycle, so I don't see the benefit to holding off on his inclusion into the NT.

 

TH,

It looks there there a choice in whom GB could have brought to this second camp.

I'd put the categories thusly:

1. Players who are very familiar with the system having played for GB before: WT, GZ
2. Core players who are elite and just have to be included: CP, TA, JB, WM, Yedlin
3. Non-core European guys who fit a need: Ream, Miazga, Horvath
4. Non-core MLS guys whose familiarity is only one camp: Lewis, MB, Baird, Lima, OG (former MLS), Lovitz, Lletget, Roldan, Arriola, Morris and Ramirez
5. Non-core pool European guys who play at a team that are better than MLS but haven't gotten a look: Weah, Sargent, Morales, Wood, FJ, Gall
   
6. Non-core pool European guys who play at a team that are equal to MLS but haven't gotten a look: CCV, Holmes, Lichaj, Robinson, Amon, Gooch

I understand why they brought in groups 1-3 even if I don't love all the players.

However, why do you think GB thinks it's more important to give ALL of the spots to #4 vs. none to #5/6? I'm hard pressed to say that having one camp worth of familiarity makes it easier for the important players in groups 2 and 3 to learn the system as the real knowledge is between group 1 and the coaches.

Conversely, there's a lot of potential guys who won't get a chance to familiarize themselves with the new system. Even worse, some of these players may not be good GC candidates, depending upon their competitive club situation this summer.

As I've said previously, one can quibble with a lot of the names but it's hard not to see a clear pattern here in the preference.

TL;DR: Not sure I'm buying the familiarity preference

 

When did he say this? sregis2 thinks a lot of the pool has been excluded because of potential logistical issues - there's a big difference.

 

Because I think Berhalter values knowledge of the system that he has setup. Players who were in the January camp literally spent a month learning Berhalter's system and the in's and out's. I think over time the players who were in the january camp but are maybe not great NT candidates will be phased out. Whether or not that doesn't happen until the GC? I don't have a clue, but I doubt it.

Yeah I agree. I don't think starting 7 games will have too much impact. My personal opinion is that we need our NT players to play consistently for most of one season to call them up EXCEPT for exceptional talents, like you could argue, Weah and Sargent. Does EPB fall under that category? I haven't seen him play in awhile, so I can't say for sure but my hunch is he isn't.

What makes you think the bolded above is true? Parker has played very well when I've seen him and last year he was able to shut down attackers like Josef Martinez, Almiron, David Villa etc. I really like Zimmerman too, but I have less to back that up besides the eye test. I definitely think EPB has potential to be better than both of them, but has EPB done well the past 7 games? (I honestly don't know since I haven't watched the games). I just see that Breda allows goals at a pretty high rate, but it's also the eredivisie so goals are scored all the time anyway.

 

When did he say it was his preferred 23? Well, he called them. You have to assume it is unless he says differently. The most he said was that it was his preferred 23 at his moment in time. I don't recall him ever saying he left out players he would have preferred.

As usual, the media is inventing excuses about familiarity and such, but he started Morris and Ream in the first game. That he even called Morris must mean he views Morris as a core player like Pulisic.

We can pretend or try and read his mind and conclude whatever. But he called these 23 players, he played most of them, and he said this is the best 23 right now.

 

Why do you surmise GB thinks it's better? Because it helps the new "core" players assimilate faster having many others with more familiarity?

If not that, who cares if a bunch of to-be-phased out players learn the system?

 

Yeah I think that's probably the case. Otherwise you'd have 11 players completely new to the system and you'd be starting from 0. But if you have even 4 or 5 players who know the system, then the "core" players know the general scheme they need to fit into.

 

We can agree to disagree but it's not a case where you'd be starting from 0 as I think that the real knowledge comes from WT, GZ and the coaches (all of whom would obviously be included); the players with only one camp don't add much to the learning of our "core" players.

In other words, it's better to move a large pool of non-core players from step 0 to step 1 than to take another pool from step 1 to step 2. Sorta like moving pieces in Risk or Backgammon (not that I've played either in a long time).

 

Yeah 0 was definitely a exaggeration and I see your point. I don't necessarily agree with GB here, but I also don't think I know enough about coaching to have a real opinion.

 

Hmm. I thought U23/Olympic qualifying was soon. Could someone put up the missing dates of U17 qualifying/WC, U20 WC (05-23 through 06/15), U23 qualifying and Olympics and full team GC (06-15 through 07/07), the new Nations? League, Gold Cup, WC Qualifiers and WC?

This would show the progression some of the younger players could make in the next year or longer. A few may go U20, U23 then full team while others will trickle in over the next 2-4 years.

 

Well, U-17 qualifying is taking place in Bradenton, from May 1-16. I think there are some early round qualifiers happening now with the lesser teams, but those are the dates for the main draw.

 

It’s supposed to be implemented for the 20/21 season and they haven’t settled on the number yet, but the proposal is a max of 6-8 players out on loan.

 

Playing well in MLS is not the same as being able to help the NT when the games are against good teams. I'm basing this off of my opinion of how their games will translate to games against high-level competition. I can't it translating all too well for either player. Zimmerman has been insulated by defensive mastermind coached since breaking into the league. I think thats made him look better than he is. His mobility and passing is below-average. He's looked shaky in a NT uniform. Shaky could turn to bad when he faces better competition.

Parker has looked slightly better, but he's another who I think plays a little too much of this "rugged CB" style. We need less of that. We've used so many of these types of CB's through the years, and while the good ones might not make significant errors, their inability to move the ball up the pitch turns into a cycle of us constantly defending. We need players who can play a proactive style from the CB position, and can make plays. We need more players all over the field that at their position can do more than "not make mistakes." Thats not to say we can't have any of these CB's in the team if there aren't better alternatives, but I think Miazga is the best of these CB's right now.

Is EPB better than these players? They play in different leagues, so its hard to tell. I've watched some of his games this season, and I've liked how he's played. He's also a loanee, so he's not going to get the benefit of the doubt that other players at the club get. As soon as he makes a mistake, he's going to be out of the team and has been at certain points this season due to that. EPB has looked good in his brief NT appearances. Considering its at the very least close, tiebreaker should go to EPB, considering style of play and potential.

 

I thought passing was a strength of Zimmerman, and although I haven't seen him much recently, I have thought that EPB's distribution was the biggest weakness in his game. What type of passer has EPB been recently in Holland?

 

Check out @FutureUsmnt’s Tweet:

1114515630835798020 is not a valid tweet id