Yes, but if history has shown anything, it's shown that you certainly don't have to do so at 18, 19 or 20 or even 22. I won't bring up Pele because he's an isolated incidence and not really of value. Actually I just did, but the point is that players develop in all sorts of ways in all sorts of environments. Since moving to MLS, it isn't as if Landon Donovan has been lacking in high caliber playing experience. As much as he'd get in the first team in a La Liga club? No, but that really has never been an option for him. The only thing Donovan's ever turned down is a reserve role at Leverkusen. It made him unhappy and there's certainly questions as to the amount of value it added to his career. Why not give our 18 and 19 year old top prospects experience at first division football playing at a fairly high caliber in MLS, and then when the _really_ good leagues come calling, send them on their way and turn a profit as well. In the past the problem has been if they don't go to Europe out of high school or early college, they don't go. While it's only two examples, clearly Convey and Howard show that's it possible for a young player to move from MLS to a top European league. I just think that it's clear that the worst thing that can happen to young players is to not play, and that's a major risk young Americans take when they try their luck abroad. Anybody who wants to should give it a shot, I wish them the very best and hope it works out well. But I don't see a reason to castigate those who choose to stay home and work on their game and move on to Europe later.
Not exactly sure what you're going on about with this "free will" thing. Been reading too much Kant lately? What is there about exercising their own free will and choosing their own path in being recruited and lured to Europe at a very tender age by often unscrupulous scouts or agents. No 16-year old African kid is "choosing his own path". That's for the Johnny Appleseeds or Thoreaus of this world. No African youngster is going to turn down the chance to play European football, even though the percentage of those who will eventually earn a decent living from it is very small. This isn't a question of choice. Please show me a 15-year old African who would choose NOT to sign a youth contract with a European club. [/QUOTE] Obviously I was referring to American players (take a look at the thread title) but even that 15 year old African kid you refer to is making a choice, albeit an obvious one. Is there someone holding a gun to his head? Spare me the footballer as victim spray. I have to laugh when people talk of "sending" players here or there. We don't send anyone anywhere, they exercise a choice (yes, a free choice - deal with it) to go to college, sign for the ManU youth team, or pump gas at the Circle K. Whether they are mature enough to understand that choice is another matter. Donovan supported the negotiations which lined up his loan to play in San Jose. He exercised his own choice in the matter. After all, its his life, not the fans'. Sorry, but there is no secret Sam's Army star chamber which does that.
How right you are. In many African countries the kid who doesn't reach for the dream pedaled by the agents and go-betweens looking to make a fast buck has a good chance of ending up with a gun to his head if he doesn't already have one in his hands. That doesn't make him any more a "victim" than the hundreds of other young African ex-footballers trolling around Europe after not making the grade.
GMAB...some parts of Africa do experience violence but to paint the entire continent that way is downright stupid if not a little bit chauvinist.
If I was a kid... I would probably want to roll the dice at a top European club. But then kids tend to think big. A kid who's been one of the best on the team his whole life isn't going to want to think about the possibility of failure. If I was the kid's parent... I'd have to think very seriously about P-40. The guarantee of a college education means a whole lot in this country, especially for a kid from a lower-income family. MLS could make the decision a whole lot easier if they'd raise the minimum salary or develop some kind of a salary bonus system. But I believe there's only a handful of kids who are going to have to make that particular choice each year. For the rest of the kids, college becomes a viable option, especially if they see themselves sitting on the MLS bench for a couple of years. . I just wish there were more Div 1 teams, more games played, and the sport got a bit more attention.
Do you mind speaking in English. Afraid I'm not too hip to your abbreviation "spray", though I understand the attempt to abridge your already limited vocabulary. Stupid is as stupid says I'm afraid, my dear chap. I'm more than happy to start throwing around insults if that's how you and your ilk "spray". As for me, I'll contentedly continue, without your blessing, to indulge my stupidity. ps. chauvinism: nationalism, agressive and exclusive patriotism - that's your line, isn't it?
Re: Youth System Yes and no. Amateurs can't move either. If you are U18 you can't move or sign, period. Unless you have an EU passport and are joining a club within the EU/EEA, but there are still stipulations (easily meet by most top flight clubs). Or you are a national (like Will Johnson) of a particular country, but there are still stipulations (easily meet by most top flight clubs). Or your family is moving for reasons not linked with soccer. Spector was signed before these regulations became official (they've been around for two years, but have not been enforced). IIRC, Spector doesn't have an EU passport. Unless Adu can get an EU passport, he is signing with MLS. From FIFA.com http://www.fifa.com/en/organisation/player/transfer.html http://images.fifa.com/fifa/handbook/regulations/player_transfer/2003/Status_Transfer_EN.pdf 1. International transfers of players under the age of 18 shall only be permitted under the following conditions: a. as a general rule, when the family of the player moves to the country in which the new club is located for reasons that are not linked to football b. within the territory of the EU/EEA and in the case of players between the minimum working age in the new training club's country and the age of 18, suitable arrangements are guaranteed for their sports training and academic education by the new training club. For this purpose a code of conduct will be established and enforced by the football authorities. 2. The same principles apply to the first registration of players under 18 who have a nationality other than that of the country in which they first request to be registered.
This is just silly, you have to be trolling on this one. It's pretty obvious that it's better for the player's developement to be playing first team soccer instead of just training and playing with the reserves. I'm not going to pass judgement on someone deciding to play in europe. It's their life and their decision. I'm sure these kids believe that they will get time with the first team, and some will. Good for the ones that succeed, too bad for the ones that don't. But don't be so foolish to think that riding pine, practice, or reserve games are as benificial to developement as playing first team soccer. That's just stupid.
Not having seen any EPL or Bundesliga reserve games, i'm going to withhold passing judgement on the lack of quality they have. I did see back in January, 1998 the Bayer Leverkusen reserves, the ones that Landon Donovan ended up playing with, lose 1-0 to an MLS WC 98 team. I think Mathis scored the goal that day in Orlando. In fact Landon played 15 minutes for BL.04 that day, and that night he agreed to terms with them. Those reserve players could have easily played in MLS and done well, and as the BL.04 GM put it "had little chance of ever playing in the Bundesliga".
There are good players on the reserves especially on top teams like Leverkusen. That being said, there is a big difference between first team and reserve soccer. The reserve games don't mean anything, the competition is pretty weak, and it's a totally different environment. Players need to play first team soccer in a competitive situation. They need the real game experience. The level of play in the MLS is much higher now than it was in 98, but that isn't really an issue to me. I'm not looking for players to stay here and play in the MLS, just saying that they need to play somewhere. That could be 1st div in England, 2nd in Germany, MLS, a bottom table top league euro team, any good league, it doesn't matter to me. In the last 5 years I've heard Arena comment on a number of different players and how they need more first team experience. Clubs regularly loan out players so that they will get more game experience, sometimes it's to "showcase" them so they will sell, but overall it's for the developement of a player. Again I'm just commenting on Supersoft's post, I'm not argueing on the stay home/go to Europe debate. It's just pretty obvious that it's better for a player's developement to play than not to play. Isn't that a given?
The way things seem to be rapidly progressing in U.S. soccer, combined with the work permit restrictions as of late, the ability for the young talents to go abroad for training just might lessen. The MLS will want to keep the best of the American players at home, and the harder they make it for teams in Europe to sort of aquire the rights to a player very early on will make it more likely for players like Freddy Adu to remain under the care of U.S. development systems. This doesn't have to be a bad thing though, nothing like the MLS trying to be greedy and taking a hands-off he's ours approach, or a European club tryng to snap up any young player with the slightest buzz about him. It's just that the number of quality and viable young soccer players in America is growing phenomenally as the sport here is being taken so much more seriously. And that being the case, it makes more sense for the MLS and U.S. to form development and training partnerships with the European clubs who are the best at knowing how to care physically and psychologically for youngsters with extraordinary athletic talent. If European clubs such as Manchester United and Ajax who are proven experts at helping young talents realize their full potential and beyond work together with the MLS and U.S. National teams in setting up even more effective youth programs in the U.S., then there might not be a problem as far as a 14 year old weighing his options when it comes to leaving home so young. As long as the right environment is put in place and the right steps are taken for the sake of the player, it might end up being more effective for American youth talents to develop in America. There is a big difference between a move from America to anywhere in Europe and a move from, say, Portugal to England at such a young age. For a young American teenage talent to move abroad and succeed in a European club's youth system, one would hope the club would have the youth program of the calibre of Manchester United or Ajax. As a United fan of course in 4 years it would be a lot of fun to see Freddy Adu alongside Cristiano Ronaldo, being called the next Cristiano Ronaldo. Although Adu is already wearing Ryan Giggs's number...maybe that's a sign that he should already be there watching the Welsh Wizard a lot more closely
I think the responsibility is more with the clubs in Europe making an ethically sensible decision as to whether they believe the player has what it takes, in every aspect, to not just survive playing there but to improve as an athlete and mesh with that particular team. The club has to believe in the player as much as the player has to believe in himself and want to play for that team. At 21 and with loads more experience domestically and internationally, just watching Landon Donovan play for San Jose you can see that his thinking sometimes is so far ahead of his teammates...his desire to win and be at the top of his form, the passion he has for playing soccer...he puts all of himself into his performances on the field, and then that little bit extra. Going back to Leverkusen might not be the right way for Landon to take the next step up to the next level of his game, but if he were to want to take it further at this point he most definitely could in my opinion. But only if it were the right club and only if he believes he can improve beyond where he is now and really wants to. I don't think it's so far-fetched to wonder how well Donovan would do under Ruud van Nistelrooy's wing...
Re: Re: Young Yanks Abroad Explosion? Good point. I think he defintitely benefited from his time around Ulf Kirsten at Leverkusen. Perhaps he needs that kind of regular daily exposure and mentoring again to reach the next level of technical and tactical prowess.