You be the new coach: how do you rebuild?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 2018 can now go down as perhaps the worst cycle in all of USMNT history. Never before had there been as much opportunity to qualify with as much talent available and the US failed to get the job done. This argument aside, one thing is for sure... this team needs to be totally destroyed and completely rebuilt for the 2022 cycle. Note that I believe this should always happen at the end of a cycle, and 2018 proved what will happen when we don’t heed this advice.

    That said, YOU be the new coach. How would YOU rebuild this team? What is your plan? Share your decision making process. How would you build a winning team and get the USMNT back on track? Who would be on your list of call ups? What formation would you use? How would you try to get the team to play? Who do you name as captain? Would you build the team around Pulisic or do you heed the warnings of giving one single player that much security? Would you call in overage players or would you try to go with a youth movement? Do you want to try and build the best team now or do you try to build team chemistry and aim for the team to peak come 2022? What would you try to implement new? Anything you would get rid of? What’s your stance on dual nationals?

    ————-
    For me, ....

    I would get rid of all the players already over the age of 30 and most likely get rid of all the guys already over the age of 26. In my opinion, the objective is to try and have the team peak in 2022 although there is still a focus on the now. That means I would be willing to call in some older players on occasions, especially when there is a ssignificant drop off in talent; however, I’m always going to favor the younger player. For instance, if it’s between Bedoya and Acosta, I’m going to always select Acosta. To me, the old players do the young players no good. I hear that there needs to be veterans to be leaders, but the lesson here is that if there is no vacancy for a young player to step into a leadership role, he never will. In other words, the young players never develop into the leaders we need them to be.

    Specifically, goodbye to me, means any field player who will be older than 33 come June, 2022. It’s simply counterproductive to call in ever again Bedoya, Bradley, Dempsey, Cameron, Besler, etc. While they were good stewards of the team in their time, to say it nicely at best, their time is done, done, and done. We’re not calling up Brian McBride anymore for sentimental reasons nor should we call up these guys ever again for the same reason. It’s not only a waste of time but it’s extremely dangerous to building a competitive team. Moreover, with McKennie, Gonzalez, Adams, Acosta, and a host of other promising midfielders, there’s no reason we need Bradley, and with Glad, Miazga, Carter-Vickers, EPB, etc there’s no reason we need Besler or Cameron. That leaves one possible outlier....Jozy Altidore. My stance on him is that he’s no longer a key player and anything but an automatic starter. However, if he performs well, and others don’t step up to the plate, I may have to settle and still call him in.

    On Pulisic, he’s my first team captain. But I would probably rotate the arm band in the early years, as Pulisic is still maturing even if he is out and out our best player. And, given the formation situation being difficult to determine at this point, I don’t want to openly state that Pulisic will only play out wide or in the middle. I want to try out a few styles and determine where the team plays the best.

    On formation and style of play, I believe a 352 (Pulisic as CAM) or 343 (Pulisic as a wing forward) may be the best formation, although in the early years, I would still play some 442 or 433. But for now, we just are so weak at fullback, that I cannot are forcing poor players on the field at the expense of better players for the sake of always having four in the back. Thus, in early friendlies, I may do some juggling between the two formations in between the halves until one seems to clearly outperform the other. On style of play, I’m pretty set on counterattacking and using hard work and speed up top to beat teams. Is it the prettiest? No. But it does seem to be the USMNT style. As good as McKennie and others project, I don’t see the US ever taking Brazil by out possessing them. That’s just not in our DNA. Counterattacking with grit and speed needs to be our bread and butter.

    On players, I would cast a really wide net in the first years, with about anyone receiving a call up that projects worth a damn, and with the intent of at least finding a handful of solid core to take us into the Gold Cup. That core projecting to look like Pulisic, McKennie, Gonzalez, Brooks, Miazga, and Yedlin. In goal, I have rotating Horvath, Hamid, Gonzalez, and Steffen, maybe Bono, at least until the Gold Cup. Horvath had a nightmare game against Portugal, but he’s too young to throw away at this point. Brooks, Miazga, and Carter-Vickers are my main men at center back, but with me giving chances to also Glad, Parker, Palmer-Brown, (and maybe even Zimmermann and a few others in January) as rotating back ups. In the midfield, I’ve got Acosta, Adams, Gonzalez, Gooch, Arriola, Delgado, Trapp, and some others competing for spots, to play next to McKennie. I’ve got Yedlin as RWB/RM in a 352 system with Adams backing him up, and then on the left side, I’m looking for someone with a good motor, solid work rate, but still has technical ability. Pulisic is the main man, of course; whether that’s at CAM or LW. At forward, I’m just going to have to try some things out. Wood should be anything but a guaranteed starter, and I’d try to give some minutes to the promising players, Sargent and Wright and a few others. I’d also look to pluck Tillman and Siebatcheu for our efforts, so long as they’ll make the team proud. That said, my stance on dual-nationals, so long as they love this country and not just looking to abuse the call ups to advance their club careers and they leave it all out on the field...the same as I’d demand of every player... then, I’m for trying to get the best players on the field. Now, I think that’s a sorry way to develop players, but as USNT Head coach, that’s USSF and MLS job. They need to produce enough talent.


    On implementing something new, I would try to form an olympic/b team that plays every time the a team plays. Too often, especially when the team has its core players is it hard to try out new things and new players. I’d like to see a B team, whereas when we call in our regular 23, we might see a B team of; GK: Klinsmann, Garces, Bono*, DF: D. Acosta, Moore*, A. Robinson, Farfan, Redding, Palmer-Brown, Glad, Long*, MF: Parks, Torres, Scott, De la Torre, Pomykal, Taitague, Lewis, FW: Carleton, Weah, Sargent, Wright, Novakovich* for example (I may just call in 18). The idea is that i want these players close to the chest, building chemistry, and in trainining to get use to the first team...maybe one of them stands out and might earn a cap. Moreover, the way this might work is on an international date, we might have a game that Wednesday and that Sunday. The B team might play on Friday, even if say it was against a NASL team, worst case scenario. More so, I might let one of my assistants run the camp, but I’d want them in the same location, so I can be hands on when needed.

    To conclude, call ups for camps would be very loose in the first years, but as 2022 comes closer, call ups come harder to come by as I look to narrow the player pool.
     
  2. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Start with the core: Pulisic, McKennie, Gonzalez, Brooks, Yedlin, Miazga.

    That is the most talented core in the history of the US Program.

    Then spend a lot of time figuring out how to work in the other pieces. A lot of try outs, experimenting with formations, figuring out how this team is going to work.

    But I am pretty sure with the players coming through the pipeline the US approach is going to be based on high press, suffocating other teams with pressure, and looking to create chances on turnovers.
     
  3. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS and USSF would veto you, then still make you call up Bradley and Altidore. [/sarcasm]
     
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  4. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    Yeah, I think in a way it's a pretty easy question. It's not like we had a golden generation who are all shuffling out of the pool with no clear replacements. The guys who are aging out were mostly not that great at this point, and we have a group of about 6-8 young players who are clearly standing out and making a case to be the core of the team going forward.

    That's also why I think the US job is a pretty good opportunity for a shrewd coach looking to boost his reputation. Even though it looks like we have arguably the most talented set of young players in our history coming of age in the next couple years, if the new manager does the bare minimum of qualifying the US for 2022, he'll get credit for rebuilding the US program.
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    You first build the spine of the team.

    Luckily for us we have a lot of young and youngish talent at CB (Miagza, CCV, Brooks, Palmer-Brown, Glad) and CM (McKennie, Gonzalez, Acosta, Roldan, Hyndman, Adams, etc. etc.) to build the team around.

    The issue of the goalkeeping is one that can't be overlooked. We've gotta identify that goalkeeper for the next generation. My money's on Steffen, but we'll see.

    The flair and wide players will come (with Puliisc leading the charge of course), but with that spine we have a good base to build off of. Like good NFL and college teams build from the offensive and defensive lines...................we build our USMNT from the back to the front. Make ourselves hard to beat first.
     
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  6. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Show our CONCACAF opponents more respeckt.
    Don't assume that winning 4-0 at home means trot out the same side and tactics away four days later.
    Realize that even with our young guns,we don't have enough talent to win on talent alone and team cohesion is a critical factor..
    Also recognize our defense is the weak link,especially with our uncertain keeper situation..We must dedicate two mids to support our back four
     
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  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    .

    The solution to complacency is getting smacked in the mouth, which just happened to us. So that shouldn't happen again for a while.
     
  8. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We're getting ready to reelect Sunil.What have we learned,really?
     
  9. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    I don't think you need to.
    With the switch over to a younger team and younger core, I expect to see a swagger come back into the team. One in part due to youthful ignorance and fearlessness which tends to be more proactive as opposed to the recent reactive complacency we saw from players who have won many times before and expected to get things done.

    Also, most of these guys have already lost in Central America/Mexico in CONCACAF youth tournaments so they have an idea what to expect
     
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  10. Skevin

    Skevin Member+

    Aug 9, 2009
    Colorado
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    I'd encourage players to go challenge themselves in Europe as well as MLS. Players like Acosta, Sapong, Rowe, Morris, Nagbe, Trapp, etc.

    Basically if you've plateaued in the MLS, you need to try a different league or you won't improve as a player. Rowe, Nagbe, Trapp, and I'd say Sapong likely aren't getting much better in the MLS. We know what we can get from them. Go to a European club and adapt.

    Then we have younger players like Acosta, Adams, and Gonzalez. They can continue to develop their games in the MLS and wait for a good opportunity to arise. No immediate rush for them.

    Going forward, I'd play:

    --------------Wood--------Altidore--------------
    ----------------------Pulisic-----------------------
    -Johnson---Williams--McKinnie---Yedlin-
    -----------Miazga---Brooks---Cameron-----
    ----------------------Hamid------------------------

    Subs/Reserves: Guzan, Vickers, Ream, Lichaj, Saief, Adams, Acosta, Gooch, Lletget, Zardes, Morris, Dempsey
     
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  11. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Because the ultimate goall is almost 5 years away, I would set an arbitrary cutoff age of 25 year. Between now and the first qualifiers, I wouldn't pick anyone older than 25 current age (30 in 2022). Those players are all known players (if one pops up that we know nothing about, he probably isn't that good but I'd look at him if it seems like it is warranted). Those players will have an opportunity to show they are the best for the position when qualifying begins (1.5 yrs?).

    I would start off by setting several general deadlines for for different age groups (understanding, of course that there are exceptions to every rule).

    Deadlines would probably look something like this: 1) start of qualifying (1.5 yrs?), 2) start of Hex (2.5 yrs?), 3) 2022 World Cup (4.5 yrs). The general age groups that I would consider for each would be 1) start of qualifying 20-25 yrs old, 2) Start of Hex 18-25 yrs old, 3) World cup 16-25 yrs old.

    My expectation would be that most of the players for the World Cup would come from the group that is currently 18-25 yrs old with possibly a few from 16-18 as well. Of course I will be hoping that more of the upcoming players will be like Pulisc and McKennie and break my curve but generally I would plan to go with these age groupings. I would continue to monitor the younger players by calling them in to camp occasionally to practice with the older players. For this January camp, for instance I might call my top 20-25 year old players that are in season for the first 28 players (plan to pick 23 for the game) and choose 5-15 more 16-19 yr old players to get a feel for where they stand and to give them a taste.

    As far as formation, I have no idea at this point but I believe midfield and CB will be our strength so I will try to maximize that talent. I have no idea who would be captain. I might just make it whoever plays GK for each game and leave it open for 6 months or so at least until someone takes it. We don't really need a captain until we begin playing games that matter.

    I have no real idea of what the team will look like. Some names off the top of my head:

    Fwd: Agudelo, Wood, Morris, Sargent, (I know I'm forgetting a couple but this is the area we seem to be most lacking).

    Midfield: Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, Acosta, Roldan, Gonzalez, Parks*, Hyndman*, Pomykal*, Carlton, Durkin, Sands, Weah
    *either have not seen, or not seen recently but have heard enough to believe they have potential to make it.

    CB a lot to choose from...EPB, Miazga, Brooks, CCV, Glad etc.

    LB: Farfan? Acosta? convert a midfielder?

    RB: Yedlin, understudies? conversion?

    GK: Steffan, Hamid, Horvath, Gonzalez, and on
     
  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I would say that no matter who we name as coach, they're going to want to win the 2019 Gold Cup. There's also the 2020 Copa America that we could get invited to (as well as the 2020 Olympics).

    I agree with your overall assessment, but don't think the soon-to-be named coach will have the age cutoffs that you suggest. We'll have 3/4 of an eye on WC22 qualification, but 1/4 of an eye on winning the 2019 Gold Cup, 2020 Copa America, 2021 Gold Cup, etc.
     
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  13. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We are learning that he alternatives may be much, much worse?
     
  14. Ruben Rivas

    Ruben Rivas Member

    Madrid
    United States
    Apr 1, 2017
    Miami
    I will start everything from scratch, no more parking the bus and set pieces.
     
  15. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And this is precisely why I have advocated for the US playing less tournaments, rather than more. We all love to see the team trotted out in these things, but it stunts the overall team development. Instead of looking to a single mid-WC tournament and then the WC, we have two in our region, plus we have to play Copa America if we can ... or so say the experts. And it is all for money. And what happens is the thinking is just as you have stated ... we have to "win" those tournaments. And because we have to win them, our coaches are actually LESS likely to take fliers on young talent, because they are seen as not ready for the next tournament, which is always seemingly just on the horizon. So we end up getting an older and older team that continues to play, because, well, they HAVE been playing and know the system and the rigors of high level games. Heck, winning the 2017 GC probably hurt our WC qualifying.

    Sorry, I just had to rant.

    I will just say that with 20 months to the next real tournament, yes ... we need to dump all the older guys now and decisively cut the cord. If we cannot do it now, with the tremendous failure of the vets just behind us and an acre of free space before real games in front of us, then WHEN can we ever do it?
     
  16. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you're older than 23 and not named Yedlin, Wood, Brooks or Williams, sorry but you're gone. Aside from GKers.

    That's my most basic premise.

    And tournaments aren't bad. We have a number next cycle. We're likely going to participate in Copa A in 2019 and 2020. The problem is our intent behind them. There's zero mandate to use vets.

    In this year's GC it was Arena and Arena alone who decided halfway thru it to bring in a bunch of vets. No other team did that. There's nothing at all stopping us from using the Copa or GC as Germany used the Euros, essentially all youth.

    A key for us is taking all our young talents, 18-23 and getting them tournament experience since we'll be relying on them in the Hex next cycle.

    Here's two sample lineups for 2019 which are plausible.

    2019 Copa:

    Pulisic-------Wood--------Taitague
    ----------------Parks-------------------
    -------Williams----McKennie-------
    Adams---Brooks---Miazga---Yedlin
    ---------------Steffen--------------------

    and for the 2019 GC:

    ------Sargent-----Weah--------
    Saief------Roldan------Arriola
    -----------Gonzalez-------------
    Acosta--CCV---Glad---Moore
    -------------Hamid-----------------

    And you don't round it out with Bradley/Nagbe types. You again round it out with 18-23 yr olds. We need to get away from the idea 18-23 isn't experienced enough. Make them experienced.

    Some of the above might break thru or not, others might break thru or not. Premise still remains though. Maybe Taitague doesn't break thru but Carleton does. Maybe Roldan stalls but a kid like Kyle Scott breaks thru. We'll have a lot of "breaking thru" over the next 1-2 years.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When we talk about Gonzalez, over the next decade, can we please be specific and differentiate between Jesse and Jonathan?

    TIA.
     
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  18. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Omar.
     
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  19. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch....
     
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  20. GumbyG

    GumbyG Member+

    DC United
    Mar 22, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    UEFA: How can we make it so young players from CONCACAF don't have access to our best leagues anymore? If only we could put in place arbitrary and restrictive rules regarding what percentage of games they have to play for the national team and then vastly reduce the number of friendly dates they have to play, so they can't experiment with young players. At the same time, it would be great if we could create further divisions among confederations so nobody can question the FIFA confederation coefficients that clearly disadvantage the best teams in the confederations with the most minnows when it comes to seedings for important tournaments, despite the fact that those are the teams that actually make the tournament.

    CONCACAF: Hold my beer...

    In short, League of Nations is going to change a lot of things.
     
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  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @GumbyG the only place in UEFA that cares about the percentage of caps is the UK. So your point is wrong.
     
  22. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sure. As long as we tell the soon-to-be-named coach that results at the Gold Cup, etc. won't matter in terms of his job status.

    I agree with the general assessment of everybody here. I just don't think the soon-to-be-named is going to have that age cut off at 25 that has been suggested above. We don't have a ton of international-caliber players in that 26-28 range right now, which is part of the reason the USMNT struggled. But those that are in that range, aren't going to be cast aside by the program. A guy like Zardes is going to be cast aside because he's not good enough, not because of his age.

    Guys in that current 26-28 year old range may be able to help us in WcQing, even if they don't end up getting selected for the World Cup. We have to exploit all parts of our pool in order to be successful over the next few years. That means building up depth in our pool. ITs OK if Eric Lichaj, currently 28, is needed at the next Gold Cup.

    I'm not a big fan of the arbitrary age cut-off.....................that's all.
     
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  23. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe many have forgotten that the 2 best field players at WC2014 was an almost 33 yo Jones and a 31 yo Dempsey. 32 yo RunDMB and 32 yo Kyle Beckerman were more than solid.

    Have not even counted the older players that helped us get through WCQ Group and WCQ Hex!
     
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  24. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not wrong about the UK.Several other countries use market based incentives to limit the number nonEU players.
    There is no doubt this is in part an attempt to close a shop window used for years by CONCACAF and African countries.
     
  25. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    #25 Mahtzo1, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
    Just to clarify, my age cutoffs are for friendlies. My assumption is also that the older players are pretty well know commodities by now. They can and should be monitored for possible inclusion later. I understand and want the coach to pick whoever is best for the position in meaningful comps. I do believe that there will be many new faces in 1.5 years but also believe some of the old faces many don't want to see will still be the best option. I wasn't thinking of the Gold Cup but that would fit. In general, I believe, absolute guidelines are not good. Nobody under the age of (fill in the blank) for the Hex or whatever competition is not a viable postion to take. I do believe, however, that friendlies should be primarily for testing out new players. Of course the friendlies right before an important competiton, Qualifiers, Hex, World Cup etc are slightly different in that they are more for fine tuning.

    2nd edit: the Gold Cup is a competition that I consider important enough that we should try to win but still unimportant enough that some experimentation should be fine. It is also good as a last minute tuneup before the qualification begins. (It does begin before qualification doesn't it?)
     

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