Yoon Bitgaram Rangers Interest

Discussion in 'Korean Players Abroad' started by redknights, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. koreansock

    koreansock Red Card

    Sep 28, 2009
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Paraguay
    And by wanting to go to Europe, he means Rangers. He's better off in Seongnam playing in international competitions and in the Olympic team.
     
  2. Jitevra

    Jitevra Member+

    Apr 15, 2010
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Other teams have shown interest as well. But they just havent offered a bid like Rangers have. There is still time for some of these teams to give their offer but Gyeongnam are hurrying everything and not even considering the player's mind.
     
  3. Jitevra

    Jitevra Member+

    Apr 15, 2010
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Why is there even a rule in K-league that the clubs can deal with player transfers without the player's consent in the first place? That is just stupid.
     
  4. koreansock

    koreansock Red Card

    Sep 28, 2009
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Paraguay
    Why should they? It's called business. If they thought another club would offer 2 million US dollars for him, then they would have waited until January to sell him. If there indeed was interest from the likes of Chelsea and other English clubs, then surely 2 million dollar bid wouldn't have been a difficult pry in exchange for a player of such widely sought interest, and they would have kept him around. Rangers made what most likely would have been a terrible bid, and with no other European club looked to be making their own bids, Seongnam--the only club willing to pay anything reasonable in return--automatically won the auction.

    Scotland football is a league in a crisis mode. We've been watching nearly two years of Scottish football now. Place your right hand on your heart and tell me playing in the Scottish Premiership would be better for a footballer than to be playing in the K-League and the AFC Champions League, because I can't do it. The chance to play in European tournaments looked very attractive at first, but their top clubs can't even qualify for them.

    Seongnam is a club looked to be on a rise to its former self. Yoon will have a lot to learn from playing in the AFC Champions League before moving on to doing better things later. Next season, K-Leaguers are going to face one of the toughest season yet. Competition is going to be fierce with the new relegation system in place, and there will be a historical high sum of 44 league matches to be played. By sticking around, Yoon will gain a lot of maturity that will prepare for him for his future career in Europe. He's young; he's got time.

    Another thing to consider is his place in the Olympic squad. Only 18 players will be going to England next summer for the Olympics. Even with Ki Sungyong and Gu Jachul not participating, Yoon still hasn't established his place in the U23 team. Under the condition that we qualify for the tournament, and that we have the best squad possible, Ki and Gu will be the starters in London next year, and Yoon will obviously not be. If he goes to Rangers now, his chance to impress coach Hong Myungbo--who had opposed to using him already before--will be gone, and Hong just may use Yoon's spot to fill up more lacking positions. I highly doubt Yoon wants to toy with this possibility.
     
  5. Jitevra

    Jitevra Member+

    Apr 15, 2010
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    All is nicely written and all, but none of this is taking into account the player's mind itself. Whether staying in K-league for another year will provide a great experience for Yoon Bitgaram is something we cant predict just like we cant predict whether Yoon Bitgaram will succeed in Europe. But he seems determined to go to Europe, since the past and until now. If that is the player's determination then there you cant really do much about it.

    The better thing would have been Gyeongnam FC waiting a little longer with the deal and consulting with the player (such as persuading him with the favourable reasons). He hadnt even flew back into Korea yet when all this happened. Not even the agent had a hand in it.

    In the end if the deal goes through, it would definately be a good business for Gyeongnam. But this good business could have been negotiated with a better transition. There was no need for all this rush.
    Also, I believe there is genuine interest from many European teams. He is a hot prospect of Korea, so there is no reason why a good offer could come if Gyeongnam wait a little longer.

    If we are specifically speaking the Scottish League - I dont really think there is a real answer to whether SPL is better or K-league is better in terms of the quality on the pitch. Of course, in my biased view K-league is better but when i look at it in an equal view, both have the goods and the bads. YB has the physical weaknesses which he needs to work on, and I actually think in that aspects playing with Rangers can help him and help with his determination to suceed. If he has the determinations to suceed then playing anywhere should not be a problem because we all know YB has the skills.

    EDIT: He was also wrongfully accused of match-fixing by the netizens. Im sure he wouldnt have had a pleasurably time.
     
  6. koreansock

    koreansock Red Card

    Sep 28, 2009
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Paraguay
    I will break it down for you this time, because you didn't get the message the last time:

    1. There is no evidence to think that any other club besides Rangers is genuinely interested. Gyeongnam sold Yoon to Seongnam for a reason.

    2. For everything I've said about Scotland, going to Rangers is stupid right now. There was a time when Rangers and Celtic were the places to be for young inspired players, but those days are gone. Their UEFA ranking could be as low as 30 by the end of this season.

    3. 'Going to Europe' shouldn't be his priority at the stage of his career. His priority right now should be to establish his place in the U23 team and the senior team. Players who have moved to Europe from Korea in recent past already had a 'starter' tag in the senior team.

    4. His contract expires in two years, meaning Seongnam will have to sell him next winter unless they want to let him go for nothing.

    5. There is a big tournament coming up. Have a good Olympic, and your value doubles. The higher your value, the higher your wages and transfer fee, and the better you will be respected and higher your playing time will be. You think Gu Jachul making $500,000 a year doesn't have anything to do with how often he's getting overlooked? I do. Buying into cheap transfer offers and rushing a move to Europe means you are going to end up in the bench.

    Spending one more year in Korea at Seongnam will not hinder his development. Yes, I understand that Yoon wants to go to Europe to become a bigger player, but he still has a lot of development to be made, a lot of which he can develop in Korea. For the same reason that he wants to go to Europe, I want him to stay around, except he's wrong and I'm right. If he goes to Europe right now, he's going straight into the benches. Gu Jachul performance in Korea was a lot more dominant and was far more well-rounded than Yoon's performance is, and he can't even buy a minute.

    Results say the Korean players have been taking the wrong way to their European destinations, and it's about time they learn from it. Yoon needs to stick around and wait for genuine interest, and not buy into half-assed offers.
     
  7. Jitevra

    Jitevra Member+

    Apr 15, 2010
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    And you didnt get MY message last time:

    1) There is genuine interest from other European teams.

    2) Whether he will suceed anywhere unpredictable. He can succeed or fail in Scotland, England or whereever. We dont know. Have a good Olympic? We cant predict that.

    BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY:

    3) This whole "transfer" situation is more than just one measily trade between two teams. The two teams made a trade without the player's knowledge and is now furious about it.

    "윤빛가람 성남행 확정. 선수가 대표팀에 합류해있는 사이 구단끼리 합의, 선수에겐 전화로통보하여 윤빛가람선수는 화가난상태.. " (also can be confirmed by the agent).

    Whether its legal or not is out of the picture here, its unethical. K-league targets itself to be a top league (infact, its targeting the SPL system format for the upcoming K-league seasons) but where in any country do you see this kind of trade happen? So now a player is moving to a team even though he doesnt want to???
    This isnt just about Yoon Bitgaram. We should think about similar future happenings.
     
  8. koreansock

    koreansock Red Card

    Sep 28, 2009
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Paraguay
    Okay, last response since I've finished helping my girlfriend her work and I need to go to sleep real bad.

    1. Not really sure if you know what unethical means, but it doesn't apply here. Yoon knew in advance when he signed his contract with Gyeongnam that he could be traded. Trades have upset many players in the past--that's why it doesn't happen so often--but it's a policy that has long existed. If he had a better agent than the retard we all know as 김동완, he would have long known about it. If he had long known about it, he would have had built a better work relationship with Gyeongnam's front staff, and he could have easily avoided this situation. However, he and his agent obviously had more personal goals to inspire himself with, and didn't share too many conversations with their staff.

    2. A genuine interest involves a lot of cash and promises being thrown around and it also involves manager and chairman calling Yoon, his agent, and his club begging Yoon's parties to help them sign Yoon. Rangers nor any other club clearly didn't do this.

    [If you want to think otherwise, go ahead, but good luck convincing anyone here. Rangers have been pursuing an Asian player for a while now, and has actually built a quite a stacked, yet random list of players. The list includes Indian, Chinese, and Japanese players--take your hint as a marketing purposed signing there. My guess is that they discovered Yoon very recently and decided to put in a cheap offer and see Gyeongnam's reaction.]

    Without a 'genuine' interest comes a contradiction of interest. Wolfsburg signed Gu Jachul to increase depth and Sunderland signed Ji Dongwon to add a prospect into their squad. As far as their initial interviews were concerned, the players signed with each respective clubs with an understanding that they would be starters in no time. This is what I call a conflict of interests. If Yoon buys into a cheap offer now, then he will go through the same shit those two guys are going through right now. No one wants that.

    3. You are ignoring the important parts of my points and focusing on the less important stuff. With the Olympics coming up, and having struggled to get regular appearances in the senior team, his focus should on making into the starting 11 for these teams. Moving to Europe right now can interrupt with his ultimate desires as a footballer. He chose footballing as a career to be the best footballer he can possibly be and there are correct steps to take and not so correct steps to take. Chase after multiple rabbits and you will be left without any of them.

    And Jitevra, for the sake of strengthening your arguments, make your statements clear. Are you saying

    a) because Yoon wants to go to Europe, Gyeongnam should send him to Europe unconditionally? or

    b) Yoon shouldn't have been traded to Seongnam because it is, by your own definition, 'unethical'?

    I can live with b) to a certain extend, but you and I both know how unpopular of an opinion a) would be. Gyeongnam has no obligation to sell Yoon to Europe just because he says he wants to go. Even if he wasn't traded today, as long as Seongnam remains the highest bidder--which they most likely will be given how much they have available to spend this offseason--Gyeongnam wouldn't be selling Yoon to any other European club unless they matched the bid.
     
  9. zdrav

    zdrav Member+

    Sep 9, 2009
    That's how it's like in American sports leagues. You can get traded without your consent, unless you're a superstar and you have a no-trade clause.
     
  10. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    Ok, I wasn't going to bother posting more on this, but this is why I wanted this entire thread deleted in the first place.

    1. The thread was obviously premature.
    2. I really HATE the mere notion of his going to the fcking useless SPL.
    3. I don't think he's ready (emotionally more than physically) to move to Europe yet.
    4. I don't even consider the SPL a "European Move"... It's worse than going to the middle east at this point. And the salary is shitty anyway.

    And now that the player plus cash trade has happened...

    1. There is NOTHING wrong with this transaction. It occurs in Europe as well (just not outside the transfer window). Just not as often because it's a cumbersome process in football across various leagues when a player's contractual rights can just be bought outright.

    2. He still can go to Europe if he wants. Tell these so called European suitors to pay FMV to Seongnam instead. £2 million for our young talent is a ridiculously low sum anyway. They can just fck off if they want to keep paying that low amount on players with plenty left on their contract.

    3. He signed a contract. Run the contract down if he wants a free transfer to Europe. Or run it down to the last 6-12 months like Kim BK.

    4. He shouldn't be moving to Europe at this point in his career. He's not established at either the U23 or senior levels. And I as stated above, I don't think he has the emotional maturity to handle the move unlike others.

    5. It's the fcking SPL. It was a worthless move.

    6. Chelsea - NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

    7. Other English clubs - terrible moves if he wants to go to Sunderland or Stoke? All of those sides are just bad fits for the player.

    8. Stop obsessing over Europe. He might as well take the time to go to the army right now and get it over with while he doesn't have a starting role in the KNT.
     
  11. skimmilk

    skimmilk Member+

    Apr 22, 2010
    Texas, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    I agree with Hodori outside the army thing :)

    Getting shipped off to Chelsea to be loaned out right away or going to mid to low table club to sit on their bench... I don't see any benefit for the player.

    Post olympics, if he features well, I'd think his market value would be the highest such that a) his new club will be more willing to let him go and b) the buying club will invest playing time, training time, etc. to giving him a legit chance at success.
     
  12. K:thecore

    K:thecore Member+

    May 20, 2002
    Honolulu
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I agree that he isn't good enough to play in Europe yet. If he goes, Yoon will be sitting a lot.
     
  13. Corporation X

    Corporation X Member+

    Sep 9, 2009
    Suckmydickastan
    Might play if he goes to another team like St.Mirren but otherwise no way. He doesn't even get light for the NT.
     
  14. Jitevra

    Jitevra Member+

    Apr 15, 2010
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Ive been trying avoid the "Is Yoon Bitgaram ready for Europe?" question because there is no right or wrong to this. In short, my opinion is that; I think he is ready to go abroad and try new a environment.
    Ive watched his plays very closely this season (and I mean very closely). He plays like a star and his body language tells you that he thinks he is above everyone else there. His stats can also back that up. He has already developed into one of the best midfielders in K-league within two professional years.
    Whether he will develop more if he keeps staying in K-league Im not too sure. There are limits to which K-league can do that (and dont even mention about the ACL).
    So, whether you think its dumb or not, I want to him to move abroad (not specifically Scotland as you keep mentioning SPL for reason) because I think he can develop more elsewhere than the K-league, not because other leagues are better than the K-league or whatnot but because of Yoon Bitgaram's personality itself. He needs a new environment where it can boost his hunger to succeed.

    If it is the question of playing time? admittingly that is the toughest question. I think he might struggle with that initially but every player that goes abroad will be faced (and has been) with this obstacle. There is no choice but to overcome it. As vague as that sounds its the only option. He will get better mentally as a player and person.
    And the Olympics shouldnt be considered an important stuff to this. That is just one tournament that is happening next year. If he cant make it to the squad (which i honestly doubt) then he can try for 2014 or 2016 or etc etc. He is still young, he has the chances for more.

    Just to be specific, Im not saying all this because I want our players to keep going abroad. You know I watch the K-league and I like it, so there wouldnt be a reason why i want Yoon Bitgaram to go elsewhere other than the fact, I have been watching him closely alot and i know what his 'wants' are. I know he has the determinations to succeed elsewhere.
    If an offer came to Yoon Il Rok or someone else I would be saying 'no' immediately.

    With the point b) you know what im going to say. The player himself is said to be angry with it which tells you something did not go right here. But thats all I will say there is no point in dragging that on and on.
    If he ends up in a club where he does not want to be because of the clubs actions (without the notice of the player itself) then so be it. We'll have to see how it unfolds and hope for the best, but I dont think it has been the best business by the clubs other than Gyeongnam FC itself. I honestly think Seongnam made a mistake here in trying to buy a player that doesnt want to go there (not because he hates it but because he has other moves in mind) with such a high price and a player of their own.

    So if you disagree with his want to move to Europe, then that is perfectly fine. If you disagree with what I said, then this is perfectly fine as well. But as I said, there is no right or wrong to this. So dont try to sound like your answer is correct and every thing else is wrong.
     
  15. koreansock

    koreansock Red Card

    Sep 28, 2009
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Paraguay
    So what are you saying? I can't disagree with you when I don't know what you are saying.
     
  16. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    Jitevra - I don't understand why he's "angry" with going to Seongnam.

    Why?

    B/c he lost out on a chance to go to Europe this winter and in the process short change his club when they receive a measly £2M?

    He's bound to get his move to Europe. He's still young. He should try to establish himself as an international first at either the senior or U23 levels.

    In any case, he's a professional. He should want to succeed wherever he plays. And he'll be making more money now than before. He should just run down his contract like everyone else. He'll make even more money once he has less time remaining on his current contract when he moves to Europe. And in the meantime, get a tutor and learn English.

    And I know you love YBGR and HJH. But I don't think either are emotionally mature enough to move to Europe. And that includes proper stepping stones countries like Holland.

    His being upset and publically bitching about this trade just reinforces my views on his immaturity and unpreparedness for a Euro move.
     
  17. skimmilk

    skimmilk Member+

    Apr 22, 2010
    Texas, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Also I don't see why Seongnam couldn't sell him if there were legit interest for a fair amount.
     
  18. Jitevra

    Jitevra Member+

    Apr 15, 2010
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    @ Hodori

    Why? are you serious? You really cannot tell WHY Yoon Bitgaram is mad about this move?
    You really cannot tell that the two clubs have made a deal without the player knowing about it? He even said he found about the transfer from the internet. WTF.

    If Gyeongnam really wanted him to move to Seongnam for those money then the least they could have done is talk about it with the player himself and convinced him. Try to make him feel more comfortable about a move to Seongnam is not that bad for your future move to Europe (because he obviously has the desires to move abroad). But no, Gyeongnam just made the deal like amateurs.

    And on top of that, you are telling me Yoon Bitgaram is looking unprofessional, immature and unprepared for a move to Europe because he is unhappy about this???? So you're telling me HE IS SUPPOSE TO LOOK HAPPY ABOUT THIS?? If you have a problem with him going to Europe, then so be it, but this is a different case. He is being FORCED to go to another team.

    This is from Lee Young Pyo's twitter. Need to explain more why Yoon Bitgaram shouldnt be mad? Or is Lee Young Pyo unprofessional or immature in making this remark as well?

    http://twitter.com/#%21/fromtheline

    BTW, why is Hong Jeong Ho is in this? He is not the one moving.
     
  19. bekele

    bekele Member

    Aug 23, 2009
    France
    Club:
    Daejeon Citizen
    ...Because you're in a position to make this judgement
     
  20. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    I don't get what all the uproar over this trade transfer is. He's just moving to another club. His contract is being traded.

    It's not like the clubs decided together to unilaterally extend his contract. In terms of time remaining on the contract, the status quo remains.

    LYP is probably feeling a bit indignant over the manner in which this took place, b/c the clubs are treating the YBGR more or less like chattel.

    But the hard truth in football or any professional sport is that players' contracts are commodities that are in fact wheeled and dealed like chattel.

    YBGR just has to bite his tongue and bide his time and avoid injuries until his time comes.

    Hong JH was mentioned as another player in the K-League that I don't think can handle the move abroad. And I mentioned him b/c he's one of your fave K-League footballers.
     
  21. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    Ok - I'm not going to bother answering you w/ sarcasm, gifs, pics etc. because I want to hear your honest assessment. Let me just ask the following to you then.

    Do you think he's ready to make the move to Europe based on his performances, statements to the press and "situation" (there are a few I have in mind) surrounding him?

    Has he demonstrated enough maturity for you to be comfortable that it's the right move for his development at this point in his career?
     
  22. bekele

    bekele Member

    Aug 23, 2009
    France
    Club:
    Daejeon Citizen
    I don't know. Which is exactly the point.

    I would hardly call the situations you allude to as indicative of immaturity that would hinder his development at a club abroad. He's no Balotelli.
     
  23. Jitevra

    Jitevra Member+

    Apr 15, 2010
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    No its not only about the manner. Its because Lee Young Pyo was in a similar situation years before but he was able to choose "yes" or "no" but with Yoon Bitgaram he has no choice.
     
  24. JoeKamel

    JoeKamel Member

    Jan 22, 2008
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Hahaha.
     
  25. Corporation X

    Corporation X Member+

    Sep 9, 2009
    Suckmydickastan
    Isn't he free to sign with who he wants when his contract is up? It's unfortunate he has to go to a club he doesn't want to go to but isn't this a 'fact of life' in pro sports everywhere if you are under contract and a no trade provision isn't written in?

    Putting yourself in his shoes it sucks to not have a say but now he's got to suck it up and bide his time.
     

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