I think it's safe to say that the foreign policies of the two nations have differed over the last 600 years (I forget when a Swiss canton beat the French knights in a big battle and secured its independence, but it was very long ago.) And I think their perception of foreigners and non-whites would differ as a result. Rick, you asserted that I asserted (God, this is tiring) that they're completely independent. I didn't. It's like racism and classism. There's an intersection, but they're not identical concepts, and one can exist without the other. To me, Tony's words were about nationalism, which may or may not be racism. Stop trying so hard to prove someone wrong, and read their words carefully.
Are you thinking of William Tell? Legend has it that it happened around 1300. You've heard that song?
Nah. Well, maybe the legend of William Tell is related. Anyway, I remember reading in a book on French history of an important battle in which the burghers of some Swiss town used pikes and whatnot to fend of Frenchmen on horses. The writer emphasized that this battle (which, apparently, employed new technology) was important, because it meant that you didn't have to be rich enough to own a horse, in order to be an effective soldier. Anyway, this battle was the end of French attempts to control parts of what is now Switzerland.
Hi guys, Having lived 6+ years in and around Nuernberg, I've been to Frankenstadion more times than I can remember. I have never heard any fans saying any kind of racial slurs, sounds, etc indside the stadium. I attended many games in a group which included my friend Keith (remember him Olaf?) who was once (in 6+ years) the target of idiots outside the park, yelling slurs and trying to start something with him. Is it possible Tony heard something? Probably. Is Nuernberg a racist town? Probably not.
You're right; nativism and racism can exist independently in theory. But we were not speaking in the abstract -- we were talking about present-day Germany (where they don't exist independently). And you're right again that this is very tedious. But I was happy to correct someone who was trying to impugn the character (ie Tony using race as an excuse) of a fine national team player is such a silly fashion.
He is in the process of moving back to the States (Dallas) along with his son. He is concerned he'll lose access to EPL and Bundesliga games after 10 years in Europe. If anyone in the Dallas area has info on the availibility of EPL and or Bundesliga via cable/sat, please pass it along. Zurich is beautiful and the people are very nice. I have no Premiere and getting to Germany (through the snow) for a game is a pain in the butt. We get plenty of Italian and French football on TV along with the local Grasshoppers live/TV. I am trying to convince the Hoppers to take on a young American but I'm not sure how conducive they are right now. Are you done with school yet? When do you take the bar exams? Good Luck. Chris
The best comparison I heard to Bavaria that would make sense to an American would be Texas. While most everyone in the state recognizes the odd "texas cecessionist" nuts for what they are, there is still a subtle sense that for a Texan there really only are two places in the world: Texas and not-Texas. It's not quite like Quebec and the rest of Canada since there's a language issue involved there, but it is sort of in that vein. I also believe that one of the distinguishing characteristics of Bavaria was that it was one of the few states that remained Catholic during the reformation. No?
The rule of thumb is that the areas closest to Rome normally stayed Roman Catholic, and the furthest areas tended to go Protestant. But it's not a hard and fast rule, just a guideline. I forget the Latin in which the rule was promulgated, but it stated that the faith of the ruler was the faith of the ruled. If I had the energy, I'd google Treaty of Westphalia or Thirty Years' War, and then I could tell you more about which principalities were RC and which were Prot. But my recollection from history classes and readings in German history is that the split was much closer to 50-50 than your phrase "one of the few states" implies. I'm sure that folks like olaf or domingo can give us a more, um, confident answer.