WWC19 USA v THE NETHERLANDS, FINAL, pre/pbp/post

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by McSkillz, Jul 3, 2019.

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Who will win WWC19' final?

Poll closed Jul 7, 2019.
  1. United States

    54 vote(s)
    87.1%
  2. The Netherlands

    8 vote(s)
    12.9%
  1. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, it was all unwise, and hindsight is 20/20, but this tangentially brings up another difference in men's leagues and women's: there are many more people willing to lose money for years on men's soccer than women's. The average MLS team only relatively recently started earning profit, but there's this expectation that woso leagues should almost immediately be self-sustaining.
     
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  2. Midwest Ref

    Midwest Ref Member

    Jul 25, 2002
    I am not opposed to the tour. I am opposed to it happening at the expense of NWSL games. Your point about not partnering with MLS is a valid one. To me, this issue is creating a broad based prosperity across the NWSL, so all players can benefit financially. Instead, what we have now is the WNT players making substantially more than everyone else. The way the system is set up, there is no incentive for players to go back to their NWSL teams quickly because they get paid by the federation. Part of what is missed in the whole equal pay controversy is that the women get their salaries paid by US Soccer, while the men get most of their income paid by their pro teams. All I am trying to say is that is in the long term interest of WOSO for the NWSL to succeed, and that drawing players and attention away from NWSL league games for a glorified exhibition is not helping the NWSL to succeed.
     
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  3. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    England was the best team we played and could have beat the U.S. They were very good.
    I think the semifinal loss gutted them and it showed in the first 25 minutes of their loss to Sweden.
     
  4. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In response to the victory tour discussion, first, I'll say it again: it is in the new CBA that the victory tour was changed to four games and only held within FIFA dates. That's what the players wanted, so again this is the USSF (not the players) making money off the women's team.

    Second, if USSF really cared about marketing the NWSL, there were ways to do both. This first game, held outside of FIFA dates on an NWSL match day, could have been held in Chicago as a doubleheader with the Chicago Red Stars game. It would have still drawn players away from their teams, but it could have drawn attention to the NWSL instead of away from it.

    Finally, I will just say that I get it. I get the USSF wanting to capitalize on the moment, and I get the players only have a limited amount of time to capitalize on the increased potential for endorsements and building their brand. But it still sucks for the NWSL.

    Also I'll point out that there has been a thread created about the Victory Tour. Can we move the discussion over there?
     
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  5. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    AvisDay thanks for taking the time to post up that data. Y'all can make your own conclusions. I'll stick with mine. She ran out of gas in the second half of matches. Now certainly I expected that with a 34 year old winger. But you also can't get past the fact that she got such kudos from many on here for her play against Spain and Sweden when she in fact did very little beyond score PKs.

    Again nowhere did I ever say Rapinoe was bad or poor. What I said is that I felt she was overrated for her actual run of play and that there were other players that may have been better out wide especially in the second half of our matches.

    But at the end of the tournament we won so all's good.
     
  6. jackdoggy

    jackdoggy Member+

    May 16, 2014
    Big D
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DATELINE Prague.........High ranking authorities at Interpol are asking for your help in identifying this man:
    225567BE-D3B2-4946-859E-134C5991172D.jpeg
    He is apparently traversing the continent reminding all Europeans who the FOUR time Women’s World Cup Champions are.
     
  7. Airox

    Airox Member

    Mar 14, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haven't caught up yet on the latest conversation, but I saw this and wanted to at least mention what my vote would've been for:
    Golden ball: Lavelle
    Silver ball: Aslani
    Bronze ball: Bronze
     
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  8. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Without a doubt.

    Morgan should have won the boot, then? Assists is first TB, yes?
     
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  9. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Asllani has been so great.
     
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  10. thegamesthatrate

    Jan 9, 2007
    Ghana was a quarter-finalist in 2010. Senegal was one in 2002.
     
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  11. thegamesthatrate

    Jan 9, 2007
    You probably don't know what really happened that led to Solo's benching. What you do need to know is that Greg Ryan NEVER speaks ill publicly of any of his former players and has steadfastly held to that practice since he was fired. Since you don't know what happened and why Ryan did what he did, you are likely premature in defending her in '07.

    And just to show I don't dump on Solo just for the fun of it, I think she was right to call Sweden cowards for bunkering. If there were a way to ban that strategy soccer would be the better for it.
     
  12. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I think it might not be Ryan's own decision, the veterans probably pushed for that. But regardless of the situation, it's a big big mistake that completely backfired.

    But thanks to it, the incident let ppl be clear that you cannot live in the past just like Solo have said.

    I still think the 2007 team had the strength to win on player ability, but became a disaster because of tactic and locker room drama.
     
  13. thegamesthatrate

    Jan 9, 2007
    Lavelle had a better final than Rapinoe, by far.

    Rapinoe did not play in the semifinals.

    Rapinoe outplayed Lavelle in the quarters.

    Lavelle had a stronger game against Spain.

    That leads to a conclusion that Lavelle gets it over Rapinoe.

    But something else should be considered. The US scored five goals in four games off the run of play. The offense was adequate but not dominant.

    What was dominant was the defense and the defensive midfield play. Anchoring that was Ertz, who played well in all four knockout games. That is why if not Lavelle she was the right choice as Golden Ball.
     
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  14. thegamesthatrate

    Jan 9, 2007
    I am pretty certain it was Ryan's decision, and the veterans backed him because his decision to bench her was the right one based on team discipline. And Solo's statement that she would have made the saves Scurry did not violates ethos number one in a team sport, so Ryan was right to throw her off the team.
     
  15. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Because the US are facing strong opponents. France has only conceded 2 goals before, England 1, Netherlands 3. The only game we could blame is the Spain one, probably Horan would have make some difference had she started but she was on a yellow. Other than it, the only thing we could blame is the waste of chances in the latter stage of the final, especially Tobin Heath, dunno what was in her mind.

    What team discipline? Solo didn't do anything wrong and was great as the keeper before the semi.

    Scurry was a disaster in that game, the first own goal was a miscommunication between the backline and the keeper, if Solo was there she would be able to prevent at least 2 goals and the US probably didn't have to come out. In the 2008 final she didn't concede one goal against Brazil and did well in the 2011 match.

    It was a HUGE mistake to bench her in the semi final.
     
  16. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Supposedly she did-- some grpss violation of bed check or something...
     
  17. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    This is way OT, and you can't do this in tournament play, obviously. But .... I've long advocated a points system for leagues in which if you don't score, you don't get a point. In other words, 0-0 draw, no one gets points. 1-1 draw, each get's a point.

    So, both teams at least have to make an effort to score.
     
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  18. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    It's a business decision. There are many many profitable men's soccer leagues in the world. The upside for a men's soccer league is huge.

    Is there a single profitable women's sports league in the world?

    This "people are willing to lose money on men's soccer, but not on women's" is the talking point du jure. It is bias. But, it ain't gender bias. It's "I want to make money" bias.

    Everyone who makes this complaint should email Mia Hamm. She is part owner of LAFC (for anyone in the thread who didn't know). Heard her quote today - she will have to wait at least three years to see "if a women's team would be viable."

    Mia did not start up or invest in a women's team. She did so with a *men's* team. And, she's waiting three years to see of a women's team *would be viable*

    You want to talk about why people invest in men's teams, not women's? Ask Mia.
     
  19. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why? Every sport has the same end point. To win the freaking game. NBA banned zone defense now its a three point shoot fest and nobody plays any defense. Baseball has the strike zone so small they way its called now its home run derby. However there is a very simple solution to those who don't line to see a team bunkering. Don't watch it.
     
  20. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    You missed the first point. Every sport has a freaking end point: to entertain. To that end, college basketball instituted a shot clock. And, thank goodness for it.
     
  21. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well that of course is correct. However, not everybody defines being entertained the same way. I would rather watch a bunker win than than an entertaining loss. But that is why I said there's an easy solution no matter which end of the spectrum you find yourself on. Don't like or are bored, don't watch. Now certainly most everybody would prefer an entertaining W. But sometimes that isn't likely to occur given the opponents.
     
  22. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It all really depends if the Golden Ball is the Most Outstanding Player or the Most Valuable Player.

    MVP factors in, IMO, being clutch and being a leader, as well as how the player impacts wins.

    Most Outstanding, IMO, reflects being the "best" player on the pitch.

    I have absolutely no doubt Pinoe was the MVP of the US team, and hence the World Cup.

    Ertz and Lavelle have arguments for being Most Outstanding.. I would probably pick Ertz because Lavelle failed several times to cashing in with a goal when she probably should have scored.
     
  23. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Also Cameroon in 1990. Still heartbroken about that loss to England- should have been avoided.

    What- no love for the Four Corners? You're probably too young to remember that...
     
  24. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup OT but let me add a point. I get where you are coming from but its not always reality. There have been tons of 0-0 matches where teams have tried to score but just didn't. Look no further than the first half of the Gold Cup Final. Are you going to tell me the US didn't try and score? Some of the best soccer they had played in a long time but they just couldn't finish. And I have seen plenty of 1-1 games where you could say the teams weren't really trying to score too!
     
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  25. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Ugh, that's what I was referring to ..... blech!
     
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