WWC19 USA v THE NETHERLANDS, FINAL, pre/pbp/post

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by McSkillz, Jul 3, 2019.

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Who will win WWC19' final?

Poll closed Jul 7, 2019.
  1. United States

    54 vote(s)
    87.1%
  2. The Netherlands

    8 vote(s)
    12.9%
  1. JimWharton

    JimWharton Member

    Feb 25, 2017
    P.S. I was surprised to have seen so little of Lindsey Horan and Mal Pugh. Although I haven’t seen a lot of her play outside the USWNT, Horan seems to be regarded as one of the top players in the world at her position. Mal got a lot of time in the games running up to the WC and usually with success. I thought she’d have more chances. Lavelle May have been playing too well to sub, but Heath seemed to leave the door open for Pugh. She’s still young tho, so maybe her time is in 2023.

    In the end, hard to be too picky, I guess. It was a good result.
     
  2. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it was more of Mewis playing too well to sub, and Horan started 4 games and came in as a sub on two. She got playing time, but didn't start every game like some had predicted.

    Earlier in the year, Pugh was a default starter, but her form had definitely dropped off for club and country, and she became a sub for the last couple of months leading up to the WWC. I wasn't surprised that she didn't get in because it was already apparent that Press and Lloyd were going to be the first subbed in. With less subs available at the WWC, Pugh wasn't going to get in. I think if Heath had had to sit, it would have been Press in. Pugh would've only started, imo, if it had been both Rapinoe and Heath sitting. I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't have minded her getting into another match or two, but I wasn't surprised not to see her.
     
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  3. jackdoggy

    jackdoggy Member+

    May 16, 2014
    Big D
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Listen to Roger......Roger is wwwwise.

    The only Team we didn’t beat was Juventus.
    I heard they gave us some lame scheduling conflict excuse.
     
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  4. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    UCLA Bruins
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Carli Lloyd seemed a little subdued and reserved during the celebrations but maybe she doesn't go hard like her fellow teammates do. I did notice that she wasn't smiling when she was subbed in at the 80th minute of the final and tried to take at least one or two cracks at goal before she was relegated back to being a "time-waster sub".

    We all know she was hoping to get more minutes and certainly could have scored goals had she played longer in some of these matches but Ellis decided to just stick with her A-team the whole way through with some minor sub changes way late into the matches. I know I was kinda hoping for a Carli Lloyd clutch goal one last time before she hangs the boots up but she doesn't have to prove anything to anybody. At least she got to go full 90 for the Chile match. I realized just now that Jill Ellis only unleashed her B-team once, during the second group match and the rest of the way through, she kept the same A-team. I'm wondering what her thought process was. Either way, she made it work somehow and we got the job done.

    I guess in hindsight I would have played B-team against Thailand since I would have figured they were weaker than Chile, A-team against Chile(get their feet wet in the tournament), B-team against Sweden since it wouldn't have mattered if we got 2nd or 1st, and I guess A-team the rest of the knock out stages.
     
  5. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For those arguing against Rapinoe's play or maybe just saying she didn't deserve the Golden Ball (an argument I totally get and halfway agree with), I just want to point out that the winner of the Golden Boot has almost always won the Golden, Silver, or Bronze Ball with the only exception of 2015 when Šašić only won the Golden Boot (and whose situation was somewhat similar to Morgan's in that half of her goals were against an overwhelmed Ivory Coast). So I guess I'm trying to say the argument should instead be whose spot on the platform does she switch with: Bronze's or Lavelle's?

    All that to say: it's hard to argue against the numbers.
     
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  6. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I don't think Carly Lloyd should of even been on the NT, we got so many better fwds to choose from these days like Lynn Williams or Kealia Ohai. If you look at the college ranks, I've seen fwds like Sophia Smith & Abigal Kim that probably could make any NT in the world.

    But I've seen way worse vanity coachomg at this WC; Spain's who refused to pick the mvp of the Spanish or the French one who didn't pick the leading scorer in France
     
  7. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Semblance17 repped this.
  8. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #758 lil_one, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
    This entire thread of stats is great:



    EDIT: I think you'll have to click on the tweet to get the entire thread. Never mind, I'll just copy and post here with all credit to Paul Carr (still worth clicking on to see the whole thread b/c I'm not including the pics and graphics):

    Megan Rapinoe:
    - Led team w/ 20 chances created and 14 from open play
    - 4th player & 1st American to win WWC Golden Ball & Golden Boot (Sawa, Marta, Prinz)
    - 2nd player to start 3 WWC finals (Prinz)

    Alex Morgan:
    - Led team with 21 shots (19 inside the box)
    - Fouled 13 times, five more than any other teammate and fourth-most in the tournament
    - Committed a team-high 9 fouls

    Tobin Heath:
    - Led team with 25 take-ons, successful at a 52% clip (about average)

    Rose Lavelle:
    - 17 take-ons, successful at a 71% clip (avg was 55%)
    - 12 successful take-ons, one behind Heath for most on the team
    - 11 tackles, third-most on the team

    Sam Mewis:
    - 11 chances created from open play, second-most on team
    - 14 tackles, second-most on the team
    - 7 interceptions, most on team
    - 43 recoveries, third-most on team
    - Won a team-high 15 aerial duels in the defensive half

    Julie Ertz:
    - Won possession in the middle third most often on the team (28)
    - 44 recoveries, second-most on team
    - Won a team-high 15 aerial duels in the defensive half

    Kelley O'Hara:
    - 45% of her touches were in the attacking half
    - Team-high 80% completion rate on passes to the attacking third
    - Third-highest expected assists on the team (1.2)
    - My vote for the USWNT player you least want to face in a Death Match

    Becky Sauerbrunn:
    - Led the team with 21 clearances
    - Won 72% of her duels, second-best rate on the team

    Abby Dahlkemper:
    - Played 622 of 630 minutes, most of any U.S. field player
    - Stretched the field by completing 14 forward passes of 30+ meters (no other U.S. field player had more than 8), at a 33% clip that was right about average

    Crystal Dunn:
    - Led the team with 477 touches
    - 80 touches per 90 minutes were most among the top 11 players in minutes
    - Team-high 28 tackles, double any other player
    - Team high 45 recoveries
    - Won a team-high 73% of her duels (50-50 balls)

    Alyssa Naeher:
    - 12 saves in 7 games, including 4 saves vs France and 3 vs England
    - Saved almost two goals above expected based on shots on target
     
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  9. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Crystal Dunn’s stats are huge. Granted, I think teams went after her side, which would inflate her numbers, but the results were that she held her own. She got some hate early on in the tournament with maybe some shaky play, but she definitely silenced her critics by the end of the tournament.
     
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  10. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would love to see a breakdown of Rapinoe's 14 chances created from run of play. Just what was considered a chance created and by the games.

    The problem with stats is that they can be used to tell the story you want. Maybe that 14 chances created is very very good? But perhaps 14 chances created isn't very good if you dig deeper and look at the volume of play the team attempted down our left flank?
     
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  11. fire123

    fire123 Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    Did you see the games?
     
  12. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Did you do a film session for each of the games? Give the guy a break. Even if he did watch the games, he wasn’t making notes of those “14 chances”......
     
  13. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    A month more of playing with the OP isn't going to change that much. The glory tour will bring in much dollars.
     
  14. fire123

    fire123 Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    So what is he alleging?
    Why should I give him a break? He was accusing other people of making stuffs up. He is the one who needs to prove it.
     
  15. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Prove what? He said says stats can be misleading, which is absolutely correct. Just like I pointed out, Dunn had a ton of touches and tackles....which was a result of teams thinking she was a weak link on our team and constantly attacking her...which she dealt with time and again.

    He questioned what the 14 chances actually were. I’d like to see the same... those can be interpreted many ways. Pretty sure that’s all he was saying. And it could be said about lots of those stats under anyone...so take it easy...we aren’t trying to dog pile Rapinoe.
     
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  16. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #766 TrueCrew, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
    I get the argument that Pinoe was not super influential & that 3/6 goals were PKs, one was a FK that went through a scrum, and one was a cleanup of a gorgeous Morgan/Heath move. And she did not play in the SF.

    But honestly, who would you give it too? The Golden Ball almost always goes to a player from the winning team (Marta for runner up Brazil in 2007 is the exception, & nobody played like THAT this time). * Edit: Sun Wen in 1999 also.

    White & Bronze come closest but Dunn shut Bronze down in the SF. And both she & White watched on as someone else stepped up to take a critical PK (and missed) multiple times for England. Plus they finished 4th.

    For the US, Morgan scored 1 goal after Thailand. Though it was the winner vs England. And she did draw the PK in the Final & start Pinoe's goal vs France. Was silent for large chunks, however.

    Lavelle did not have a lot of end product till the Final, and played the fewest minutes of any of the top XI. Two goals vs Thailand, no assists, and then one in the Final. Did draw a PK.

    Pinoe was just more productive in the KO rounds. Hitting those big PKs is not easy, just ask Boxx, Lloyd, & Heath from 2011 or England this year. In the 3 KO games she played, she had 5/6 of the USA goals. All 3 game winners. That has to count for sonething. And she led the team in chances created despite missing 2 games.

    That is Golden Ball worthy, though not Marta/Prinz/Sawa level stuff. And when you add in the outside pressure she heaped on herself (and off the rest of the team), yeah. Worthy winner.

    Congrats to the ladies. Now it is time to reclaim that Olympic Gold. No team has won the Olympics after winning the WC. Though the '91 team did not have a chance and the '99 team lost in aet on a goal that VAR probably disallows today (handball).

    Hope Lloyd and Rapinoe stick around for it. Winning the Olympics was a great way for Hamm, Foudy, Fawcett, Chastain,
    Parlow, & MacMillan to go out.
     
  17. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Rapinoe is the right choice, just she wasn't as great as the previous Golden Ball winners.

    Lavelle played quite well against England and Spain, just got muscled in the quarter final.

    As for Non US players, I think Bronze and Asllani are the best ones.
     
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  18. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would wager money that I watched more of the WWC than most people on here did. Fact is I watched every single minute of the US matches and most all the other matches. I would guess that I watched at least 50% of the total minutes in non US games.

    Maybe we should all put our soccer resumes on here so we can compare them too.
     
  19. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I forgot Rapinoe won the Gold Ball. That actually should raise her to #1 on this list (that someone had done ranking all the players overall this tournament).. interesting.....
     
  20. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do NOT put words in my mouth. I never even hinted that anybody was making anything up. All I questioned was what constituted "generating a chance" and the game distribution of those chances.

    Were those 14 chances fairly evenly distributes across all 4 matches?
    Were those 14 chances at a higher rate in the group stage vs the knockout stage?

    That kind of data would tell a much more thorough story than just some total number. As an example, lets say all 14 chances were created in just the Thailand match and zero the rest of the way. That tells an entirely different kind of story.
    And before you put words in my mouth again or jump on that its just an example of how statistics can be used to tell a story depending on how you want to dissect the numbers.
     
  21. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    I can honestly say I have no gripes about any of our players. You can point to a mistake one may have made or a rough patch in a particular game. But overall, unlike the last two WWCs, I don't think I can point to any of our players and say they had a poor tournament.
     
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  22. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    I have to say that I doubt all 14 of Rapinoe's chances created came against Thailand.
     
  23. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #773 Dfwsoccer01, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
    What people seem to forget is US was supposed to be an offensive juggernaut this tournament. After the first round, I think they were far from that. And the most scored goals in a tournament is another one of those misleading stats.

    If you look at the stats, the ones that are impressive are our defensive players and Julie Ertz. To me, chose from any one of those 5 players (maybe not AD, so 4) and that’s your real MVP for the team and tournament.
     
  24. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    I am not forgetting. But it is a very reductive argument.

    I think part of that is we faced great highly ranked opponents. Teams with good defensive players than can tackle and win balls.. We were not scoring tons of goals against this caliber of opponent in the last year or so either. So I'm not sure why some people may have believed we were going run up huge scores on them suddenly. Some of our tomato can friendlies may have skewed expectations if that is your view. Also Ellis went into game management mode more keenly than she has ever shown in the past. And those offensive players proved really adept at enforcing that tactic.

    Still what other team has a better offense? If one had not watched any women's football before this tournament and you ignore the Thailand game...the US team looks clearly the best offense among these teams. And yes that does include the forwards. No other teams had a collection of forwards that were as dominant on the ball or created as many headaches trying to mark.
     
  25. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    UCLA Bruins
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only player that didn’t look great was Allie Long getting those minutes and receiving a yellow card after 2 minutes and giving away too many free kick opportunities when she should have kept the ball to close out the match. I wasn’t too sad when she was kept on the bench the rest of the tournament.
     
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