would a usl or nasl title boost rhino popularity

Discussion in 'Rochester Rhinos' started by wtimkey2016, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. wtimkey2016

    wtimkey2016 Member

    Oct 11, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do you think
     
  2. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    Outside of Upper state New York ?
     
  3. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

    Oct 12, 2005
    PuertoPlata, DomRep
    on the short term : yes

    on the longer term : I don't think so
     
  4. Cyclonis

    Cyclonis Forza Juve

    Jul 12, 2007
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Continued success on the playing field and support from the community are good bargaining chips when it comes to arguing a case for MLS ownership. Not as good as $100,000,000, but not everyone has a rich foreign friend to bail them out like the Cosmos.
     
  5. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

    Oct 12, 2005
    PuertoPlata, DomRep
    I don't think that MLS still cares for Rochester
     
  6. Cyclonis

    Cyclonis Forza Juve

    Jul 12, 2007
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I think they do, they just care more about money at this point so that initial investors get some returns. If the Rhinos could find a rich foreign company like the Cosmos just have, I'm sure you would get a team. NY is a State that support 3 teams, plus we are talking a different market from the Island, no?
     
  7. MLSinSTL

    MLSinSTL Member+

    Mar 20, 2009
    Ohio - near a city
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to say that I lot will have to change before Rochester gets into MLS. Yes, some of it is money but it's also the size of the market, the size of the stadium and the support for the team.

    I'm a Rhinos fan so believe me - I used to read every article where it was mentioned that the team could go into MLS and wanted it to happen. Now, I just want the team to play at the highest level that they can. If that's USL Pro so be it. I'd prefer them to be in D2 just because it helps keep the delusion of MLS alive...
     
  8. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

    Oct 12, 2005
    PuertoPlata, DomRep
    Exactly, these are the reasons why Garber stopped mentioning Rochester. The 2001 beggars have become 2011 choosers
     
  9. wtimkey2016

    wtimkey2016 Member

    Oct 11, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that the problem is that the rhinos are stuck in a never ending circle. Clark will only try to go to mls if they average 10000 fans again but that wont happen unless there is talk of mls again, I think that the only way they coukd go to mls if if Clark or another investor take a risk and try to spend the money to be a mls team later on (no way they will be the 20th) I think that the fans are out there, accually I know the fans are out there and in mls they could probably get around 15k fans average. I dont see why he is waiting for more fans to watch, Rob Clark has to know that the fans are out there, and those figures were just for d2 and talking about mls, but accually being in mls would increase there attendance even more. I dont think rob clark realises that there wont be any more fans coming if talks of mls dont start again. That was my rant/ramble.
     
  10. Randomhero31

    Randomhero31 Member

    Dec 13, 2010
    PDX via Buffalo
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it safe to say that the Rhinos organization had bottomed out and started to get their house in order? If that can be said, I think most fans who support the club realize MLS is not an option, for reasons listed above. We're not a big enough market. Blame your family and friends who moved out west and south. Like the region, the team is making the best with what they have. Looking at comps around the region, I don't think Rochester could produce what Toronto, Montreal or Columbus do.

    I think a championship would make the city feel better, but outside of WNY... who would really care? I can't see people coming from Pittsburgh to see the games. I like to make it out from Buffalo a couple times a year and I imagine there are guys in Syracuse that would make the trip --- but at best, maybe 300-500 fans a game from each city? Rochester would have to bear the onus of bringing in the fans and I don't think they can do that anymore.
     
  11. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    If MLS develops a 2nd div with promotion / relegation then smaller markets city/clubs like the Rhinos might have the chance, like their European counterparts, to play in the top division for a couple of years .
     
  12. Randomhero31

    Randomhero31 Member

    Dec 13, 2010
    PDX via Buffalo
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder how long that would take, if Rhinos and their fans could wait long enough for that to happen. Going to games, it seems like the crowd numbers are dwindling. The MLS has been charged with the duty to replicate systems that have been in place in other countries for decades. Most people who keep up with the MLS hardly know of the NASL and before. Those rivalries aren't there anymore and they have to rebuild from scratch.
     
  13. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So it's true MLS talk boosts attendance even if you don't go to MLS. Sounds like a marketing scam to me.
     
  14. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See, this is how your brain works: some random anonymous newbie on a message board says something that you interpret as dovetailing with the particular brand of lunacy that is your worldview, and you accept it as fact.

    Someone makes a passing remark on a podcast somewhere, and you rush to post it here, trumpeting it as proof that, yes, you do know what you're talking about.

    Too many of you think there's a button somewhere that you push and attendance goes up (whether that button is more billboards, more TV commercials, more marketing to soccer fans, less marketing to families, whatever). There isn't. It's an incredibly complex matrix that makes this happen, and it's rarely the same in any two different markets.

    I don't know what the heck happened in Rochester - whether the glory days were supported by a whole lot of smoke and mirrors that dissipated when the old owners were exposed or whether the new owners have done something wrong or if too many people were burned by the old owners or if dropping down a division matters to people in Rochester more than it matters to people in other markets...I don't know.

    I do know that Rochester appeared to be a hell of a success story and now they appear to be less so. There are very likely a hell of a lot of things that have gone into making that occur.

    But, no matter what random people say, you're not going to just start talking about making a run at MLS and see people miraculously return - the dynamics have changed quite a bit since 1999.
     
  15. buzz99

    buzz99 Member

    Mar 29, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    No way for Rochester to land MLS franchise. Too small a market. Stadium would need overhaul to meet MLS standards.

    Look for Orlando to be next USL/NASL team to jump to MLS.

    S. Diego, Phoenix and possibly Atlanta (if they can show better support for their NASL team) are better MLS candidates than Rochester.)

    Dark horse candidates are Charlotte, S. Antonio, Indianapolis.
     
  16. Randomhero31

    Randomhero31 Member

    Dec 13, 2010
    PDX via Buffalo
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know how you can write off Rochester and then regurgitate the same tired list of places that have been mentioned for the past 15 years. Sports teams (outside of college) in Florida have a penchant for non-existent fans as well as an Atlanta team that can barely feign an interest in their championship baseball team.

    There won't be 3 teams in Texas anytime soon either. California won't have 3 teams in southern California and nothing survives in Phoenix.

    What next Las Vegas? Detroit?

    Come on. MLS isn't going to get another team until they can work out having the Cosmos. Pure and simple.
     
  17. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I agree...it would be a black-eye for MLS not to have Cosmos as 20th team after all the hype.
     
  18. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    I also don't see San Diego as a MLS option with nearby Tijuana Xolos in the top Mexican league, ditto for Atlanta and any Florida team.
     
  19. rhinosforever

    rhinosforever New Member

    Jan 9, 2012
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    while i agree with you on the market being too small if by some chance they could land an MLS franchise they have plans from when they built the stadium that allow them to expand the stadium to around 20,000. the biggest challenges at this point remain the market size and the number of high profile cities waiting for the next team
     
  20. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You'll note the hype is coming from the Cosmos themselves, and their particularly frothy fanboys. Not from MLS. If the Cosmos don't materialize, it won't reflect on MLS a bit.

    If MLS' 20th team is in NYC, in a proper stadium with a committed and wealthy owner, and it's NOT the Cosmos, it's not going to be a black eye, or a bruise, or even leave a mark. The whole Renewal Of The Cosmos thing would be just a footnote and in 10 years or less, most will have forgotten it ever happened.
     
  21. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just curious...what would you have to do to the stadiums in San Diego, Phoenix, Charlotte and Indianapolis for them to "meet MLS standards?"
     
  22. radiosoccer

    radiosoccer New Member

    Jan 23, 2012
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The main reason Rochester is not in the running for an MLS franchise is there hasn't been a committed group of people willing to put up the expansion fee. Joe Sahlen of the WNY Flash would be one member of such a group, but there needs to be at least one more money person for Rochester to have a legitimate shot at an MLS team.

    I agree that promotion/relegation would be the most likely way for Rochester to get a team in MLS. But, remember that there are 3MM people within a 90 minute drive of Rochester and you only need 15-20K to support the team in an expanded Sahlen's Stadium. Also, how many cities in the US are currently supporting 4 soccer franchises (Rhinos, Flash, Lancers and Ravens)? Our area has always been a hotbed of soccer in the US, going back to the NASL days. If an MLS team was based in Rochester, I believe the fans would come out to support top flight men's soccer, much as they have done in former NASL cities Vancouver, Toronto and Seattle, whose lower division teams struggled but the MLS teams are drawing sellout crowds.
     
  23. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow. Flashback to 2000.
     
  24. BigBad John

    BigBad John New Member

    May 13, 2012
    Rochester, New York
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Rochester is bigger than Salt Lake city and the same population as Orlando... St. Louis has 320,000 people... not too much bigger but is seen as a serious candidate for expansion?! I think the big issue is people dont know how big or small Rochester really is... Thats the real problem. Because the fact that Salt lake has a team and we dont is ridiculous. SLC has 140,000 people in its city proper... And its metro area is the whole state of Utah pretty much. Rochester has a metro area of 1.2 million and a proper city of 230,000 which up until this past census was bigger than Orlando... Rochester isnt a small town like People like to believe. Im surprized more people are not outraged that Salt lake gets a team before Rochester...
     
  25. BigBad John

    BigBad John New Member

    May 13, 2012
    Rochester, New York
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Also people you can put an NFL team in Green Bay pop 180.000ish and have one of the most loved teams in history... Rochester Metro area 1.2 million with another 1.4 million in Buffalo and nearly 1 million in syracuse.This should not be seen as anything other than a success story waiting to happen. Rochester has the best history of any Soccer team in The America profession modern history, either we can complete the cindrella story or we can just go into obscurity. Teams Like the Tampa bay Rowdies, San antonio, San Diego Atlanta will all probably go to MLS before we do.. but one day if people still love this team and when Enough people learn about How big we are as a city and a league merger... which we all know is bound to happen, Rochester will be in the MLS... But Rochesterians are known for there modesty and it is our downfall... Which is part of the reason Buffalo which boost a population of 270,000 and a metro of 1.4 million vs or 230,000 and 1.2 million has two major league sports...because buffalo is a small city but youd never know it by the way they act, where here in Rochester we always think we are the smallest city even when compared to way smaller cities...
     

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