worthy of dismissal?

ok, good. I assistant now run to coach area and make scene so everyone also see. I tell him, not loud, give time to referee put whistle in mouth, referee slow today, coach very fast. Most time, coach agree and make peace.

 

No way am I ever allowing some hot-headed adult inject such horrible behavior into a match for which I am responsible. As the Referee I am removing him from the match. As an AR I am seeking a word with the Referee and advising him along the same lines.

 

To me it is very clear that he gets sent off simply because of the ROC.

I've played (and coached) in leagues where the members of the rules committees decided to crack down on 'foul' language. None was to be permitted. In this case, a coach yelling "GodDamn" loud enough for everyone to hear it has crossed that line. I personally don't agree with these types of rules, but that is a different discussion. In this particular instance, the coach has dug his own grave. You merely tell him to step into it.

 

Story time! I'm AR2 on a small (and I do mean SMALL) evangelical college men's game. The game is pretty hot and the referee is, frankly, struggling to keep things from boiling over, couple of cards issued. Home team player doesn't like my offside flag and exclaims "Judas Priest!" This is a church school, that's sacrilegious and I am quite confident that the school does not tolerate that kind of language. Flag up, call referee over, advise him to caution the player for incidental foul language, unsporting behavior. He goes to the player and issues the caution, immediately followed by a display of the red card. His second caution.

Now the layout at that field had a fence behind AR2, on the other side of which was most of the student body (this was their only fall sport, so it was a big deal at the school.) I hear the students behind me buzzing about this. "Joey just got a red card for saying "Judas Priest!"" I didn't have to turn around to know that their eyes were bugging out at what had happened. Funniest thing. Not a word of complaint from the coach. The game dropped from a near boil to a simmer and there were no more cards issued.

 

Just read this thread (on vacation). My thoughts are I am not tossing a coach for "GD" at this point of the match for what I consider mildly profane. If the ROC require some action, why can't you run over and tell the coach that he/she can't use that language and he is in the book for dissent or whatever the ROC call for. (cautioned, don't show a card) He'll know he's stepped over the line a little. Lets the players and spectators know you'll deal with the behavior. In NFHS, it's incidental foul language (even by a coach).

 

I, too, often round down on behavior issues when the game is just about over, especially for first offenses. So, maybe I would go AC here.

But, I very much disagree that in NFHS this is incidental. At a High School game, I am deciding between Yellow and Red for this, and would be leaning strongly Red since it was so loud.

 

You're forgetting that in NFHS incidental cursing is a yellow card.

 

NFHS also says "using insulting, offensive or abusive language or gestures" is a dismissal. So that doesn't mean that because the person was having an emotionally charged reaction they get a free pass.

Incidental to me is more akin to getting hit on a sensitive area and saying something. Not being upset and failing to control yourself. One is a result of physical pain, the other is result of not controlling ones emotions.

 

You have no argument from me. I was just replying to jayhonk that by the book incidental foul language is a card not AC

 

Ah, I thought you were going the other direction with it.

Some people I ref with would bleet until their dying breath that a profanity laced tirade is a yellow because the rules say incidental foul language is only a yellow. My apologies.

 

I think the lesson here is - the rule as written (profane language) is too vague. Unless the league wants to leave it up to each referee to decide for himself..... I know, I know, this can fall into the category of I know it when I hear it.......

I am reminded of a situation a couple years ago where a 14 yr old female center ref (from a relatively pious family that has produced 4 decent refs so far) carded a 12 yr old female player for calling a teammate something derogatory, but not "profane". When asked why, the ref responded that she had used a dirty word. To which the player responded, it's not a dirty word in my family. For the life of me, I can't remember what the word was, but it was not something most of us in 2015 would consider "bad". Disrespectful, yes, but not dirty or profane. (dumbass maybe)

All amusing (to me) so far, but the coach exploded at the ref after the game and caused her to retreat in tears. And it almost got physical when the older brother (also a ref) raced to protect his sister.

So my opinion about rules like this is - make a list of what words are not allowed and enforce it.

PS - coach was terminated

 

I'd say that "dumbass," especially when said to a teammate, is unsporting, especially for U-13 girls. Shorten the claws, ladies. Too much girls mistreating each other around that age just because they think they can.

I don't know if my earlier post made my message clear enough. We frequently hear from high level instructors that the referee needs to ask themselves, "Does the player need a card? Does the game need a card?" I think we get caught up too much in the language topic worrying about whether the player needs/deserves a card and the precise level of offensiveness of the words used.* We also need to consider the effect of the language on the atmosphere of the game and how it affects, in subtle ways, the expectations of players, coaches and parents/spectators about what's going to be allowed today. If the referee allows certain vulgar, borderline language, it can be taken by others as indicating that the referee isn't going to call stuff today unless it's big, and that's true of both language and other behavior.

* I worked occasionally with a then Canadian FIFA referee who told the story about doing a pro game in which a frustrated player "asked" him "What porch did your mother crawl out from under when she had you?" Is there a single "bad" word in that sentence? Should he be sent off for saying it?

 

The state I work in has issued guidance on top of the NFHS rulebook that is basically, this is a school event. If you can't say it in a classroom, you can't say it on the field.

 

You would be surprised at how unhelpful the "can it be done in school" threshold is in the modern world.

 

I always find it amusing when a referee gives the "extension of the classroom" speech and adds "if it isn't acceptable in the classroom, it isn't acceptable here." I'd wager that not many high school teachers accept running around and kicking things in their classrooms.

 

I have to resist rolling my eyes or scoffing at another ref who talks about it in the pregame. When my wife was teaching HS, she was able to get the things like, "That's gay." and "Retarded" out of the students language. That doesn't mean there wasn't swearing, it was just never directed at anyone and usually under the student's breath.
I was doing a dual on bad girls soccer in February and there was a girl in the first half near me that swore every time she wiffed on the ball, so once every 5 minutes. It was never loud enough for anyone further than 10 yards away to hear. Her team was down by at least 7 in the second half and the other ref disqualified the player for foul language. A) it was no more than incidental and B) it was never an F bomb, always Sh!t or Dmnt.

 

Right, I'm not advocating what your partner did, I just use it to inform my decisions. A girl quietly saying "goddammit" when she misses a kick, heard by two other people? Not an issue. An adult screaming "GODDAMMIT" across the field so everyone hears it? That's an issue. A teacher can't stand and scream that in a classroom if the students didn't do their homework. I don't think I have rabbit ears by any means, but my tolerance for profanity/abuse from high school coaches is a lot lower than it is from players. They should know better and model better behavior.

And, I would add, I don't mention it in my pregame speech.

 

You didn't go to my school then... But to be fair, it was a different time, maybe a long time ago in a ... ....


I was once given a nice hard neck pinch by a teacher as he came up behind me when I wasn't doing my work. He then whispered in my ear "Quit f&*^king around and do your work" That was 7th grade. If I could've given him the RC I would've...

 

My high school didn't have a lot of money, at least not in my day. The legend is about one of the priests, who was also assigned to be the groundskeeper, and one day he's teaching in a classroom with lots of windows. During class, he sees a kid or two out on the lawn, screwing around. He stops class, pops open one of the drop down windows and yells "Get off the Goddamn grass!"

When I was younger, I would tell the captains at high school games that I didn't want to hear "anything you wouldn't say around your grandmother." One female captain then asked me, "What if you had, like, a really cool granny?" I told her "If she says words like that, then she isn't really cool." I also stopped making the statement to captains after that.

 

I coach U12 girls. If I heard the other coach say that and I thought the refs heard it, I would expect him to be sent. If I said it, I'd expect to be sent. We're supposed to be setting the right example.

 

Wow! Bunch of snowflakes here. I was raised in England where strong language is much more accepted in the mainstream than here.

Since when has "Goddamn" directed at a call been anything other than a point of emphasis?