Well, now that the USL 1st and 2nd divison schedules are out, I notice none of the games are marked as US Open Cup qualifiers. I have a feeling the we may see 1st & 2nd division qualifying revert to what was done in 2000 and 2001, where the A-League and D3 clubs were divided into groups and qualified from there.
From http://www.seattlesounders.net/cgi-bin/pressrelease.cgi?ID=204 I assume they really mean Virginia Beach in place of Vancouver.
CHN71. Great job once again finding the news. But in my opinion. If Seattle is considered the runner up of the A-League Cup/USL 1st Division last year, shouldn't they be allowed a bye into the 3rd round? I always thought that if you had a better record in the top four, they should be in the 3rd round with Charleston, Minnesota & Virignia Beach, and Atlanta, Portland, Richmond & Rochester should be in the 2nd Round. That's just my opinion. But the four MLS clubs we know that will be in the 3rd round are obviously Chicago Fire, FC Dallas 96, CD Chivas-USA & Real Salt Lake. At least we have dates for 2nd & 3rd Round matches. 2nd Round June 29th 3rd Round July 13th When it comes to the USL 2nd Division, it sounds like only 4 clubs will enter, unless PDL is going to lose some spots. But this part I am speculating. CHN71. I believe will snoop out the rest of the qualifying or till US Soccer informs us.
Let me also give an extra thank you to Seattle Fan. I'm sorry I missed your post earlier. Thank you as well for informing us first.
It might be possible to have a first round of 24 teams, say PDL (8), USASA (8), USL2 (8). [This would match my earlier post of having the number of teams in a 12-8-8-8-8 setup, then fix it at that level until MLS expands.] Or if you want to give PDL more spots than last year, do PDL (12), USASA (8), USL2 (4). [But maybe I prefer the pro sides to get the more bids, even though I follow a PDL side.] Twelve first-round winners would then join the first 4 USL1 sides in the second round.
This is why there will probably be USOC Qualifying for USL 2nd Division. There are nine clubs right now. 4 of the 9 who qualify will probably go to the 2nd round. Once again this is just speculation on my part.
Went poking around the USL 2nd division club websites, and found came across some qualifying info coutesy of the Harrisburg City Islanders. According to them , the teams first 6 games will count as USOC qualifiers. They are the only D2 team to post this info so far. The only thing that's left to figuire out is if it's just the first 6 games, or each clubs first 3 home and away games that count. Just at first glance, Charlotte's first 6 games are 4 home and 2 away, and Cincinanti only play 2 away matches before June, which is when the qualifiers traditionally end.
Well CHN I have the schedule all set up, now remember if it's the first 6 matches per each clubs schedule the equal ammount of Home & Road matches shouldn't matter. As long as it's six, then it's six. Here is the schedule, please remember that the home team is listed first and the teams at the bottom of the schedule for US Open Cup qualifying, their 6th and final matches are listed in bold. Official spots for USL Div II right now, we are not sure. 2005 Lamar Hunt US Open Cup Schedule 4/15/05 Charlotte Vs Northern Virginia 4/16/05 Cincinnati Vs Harrisburg City 4/16/05 Wilmington Vs Northern Virignia 4/22/05 Charlotte Vs Western Mass. 4/22/05 Northern Virginia Vs Cincinnati 4/23/05 Harrisburg Vs Pittsburgh 4/23/05 Northern Virginia Vs Long Island 4/23/05 Wilmington Vs Western Mass. 4/29/05 Wilmington Vs Harrisburg City 4/30/05 Charlotte Vs Harrisburg City 4/30/05 Cincinnati Vs Western Mass. 4/30/05 Long Island Vs New Hampshire 5/1/05 Pittsburgh Vs Western Mass. 5/6/05 Northern Virginia Vs Charlotte 5/6/05 Western Mass. Vs Wilmington 5/7/05 Harrisburg Vs Charlotte 5/7/05 Cincinnati Vs Pittsburgh 5/7/05 New Hampshire Vs Wilmington 5/13/05 Pittsburgh Vs New Hampshire 5/13/05 Charlotte Vs Long Island 5/14/05 Pittsburgh Vs Northern Virginia 5/14/05 Cincinnati Vs New Hampshire 5/14/05 Wilmington Vs Long Island 5/21/05 Harrisburg City Vs Northern Virginia 5/21/05 Long Island Vs Cincinnati 5/21/05 Western Mass. Vs New Hampshire 5/28/05 Cincinnati Vs Pittsburgh 5/28/05 Long Island Vs Wilmington 5/28/05 New Hampshire Vs Western Mass.
So that means that Charlotte, Cincinnati, and Wilmington will have four home matches, while Northern Virginia, Harrisburg, Long Island, and Pittsburgh have three and Western Mass. and New Hampshire have only two! That doesn't seem fair. Considering that there are fewer clubs in the USL than in the past, it seems that the Fed could just have four regional "tournaments", with those winners then being drawn for the semi's. You have maybe two prelim rounds to whittle each region down to eight, with MLS teams (and any higher ranked USL-1 sides to make the numbers even), which only adds one round for eight MLS sides, while the overall tournament stays the same length (if my counting is correct). A blind draw would be cool, but not necessary.
Eric B. This isn't the USSF's fault. USL 2nd Division already made out their schedule. A leak from the Harrisburg City Islanders website mentioned that the first six matches on their schedule meant that those matches double for pts in USL 2nd Div & USOC Qualifying pts as well. So basically some of the clubs will have either one more home game or one more road game. Sometimes in the PDL in four qualifying matches, not everyteam will have the 2 & 2. Some will have one home, three away or three home & one away. So basically that's what's gonna happen.
Again, I've long proposed the four-regional format, but for some reason, most of the posters prefered the two-region East-West setup, with some wanting a single "region" of the whole country. The four-region concept could have worked when MLS was geographically balanced. (Before they dropped the Florida teams, each region had 3 MLS teams.) Now, South has one (!) team, North has 3, East has 3, and West has 5.
Well it is because of the way they insist on how they have clubs qualify for the tournament proper. There's only nine teams in USL-2 for the love of Frank Marcos, they could figure out how to get all nine in an earlier round. I can see not wanting to involve all 50 PDL teams in knock-out stages (it would be cool, but I could see the practical reasons that prevent it) but it would be quite easy to include all 17 USL professional sides in a knock-out stage. Might create a little more of that "cup magic" that we already get once in a while.
SJJ Nothing against you, but your proposal should be address to the US Open Cup Compettion Committee, not to us. Yes it was interesting, but at the same time the US Soccer Calendar isn't as big as England's or Germany's or Italy's. At the same time, too many people want us to be everything exactly like the world does in Football. I have said so many times, I don't believe it's financially acceptable at this time. All members of MLS & USL must build their own stadiums. When they all make a profit and are financially stable, then everything will be exactly how it should be. Let the money and talent improve more, then we can do the things that everyone else in the world can do.
Eric. I feel for you and I completly understand what you are saying. Listen, things are imperfect right now. How does a fourth division side have over 50 clubs, and US 2nd & 3rd division have 8 or 9 clubs each. Sooner or later some of these PDL clubs are gonna have to move up to 2nd & or 3rd division status, because we need to fill these spots. Maybe it looks like a fifth division has to start. Who knows, I don't. I wish I was running the USL & MLS & US Soccer to fix all these problems. But at the moment certain things need to be done, that's Soccer Specific Stadiums for all clubs that are registered with US Soccer and also I truly believe that USL in Tampa, MLS in NYC & Soccer house in Chicago must all unite under one roof. But also remember that everything must be financially sound. The Revs don't have a SSS, DC doesn't have one. KC right now is in trouble we don't know if the Wizards are going to stay or move after this season in MLS. You also have to ask this question. Besides Blackbaud in Charleston & the new one being built in Rochester, What about the other USL 1st Division clubs & the USL 2nd Division clubs? Do they have their own stadiums. I have said this many times, right now promotion and money for the US Open Cup is the first major step to improve the tournament, once everything else is in place and everyone decides that Promotion and Relegation will happen for US Soccer as a whole then it's going to happen. Right now in the USOC it has to stay as is, untill MLS gets too 20 clubs and we can reduce the size of the PDL & when Ajax Orlando finally builds their own stadium they can start their own A-League club instead of always having their PDL club. Patients is tough Eric I know, but for now it has to be like this.
Nothing against me, I guess So let's scrap these boards, since every idea that someone has should go directly to the NCAA, USSF, MLS, USL, CONCACAF, CONMEBOL, UEFA, or FIFA. I just think that your rant was mistakenly directed at me. I don't beleive that everything in the rest of the world should be duplicated here. Yeah, we all get tired reading those same things, but that didn't involve me directly. As for the post itself, I don't see how having the US Open Cup in regions (as I was replying to another poster) has anything to do with the European calendar.
Re: Nothing against me, I guess I'm not saying it has anything to do with the European Calendar. I was talking about the US Soccer Calendar. Making comparisons from England's Calendar, to the US Calendar. You mis-understood what I said.
So what you're saying is that for any club that doesn't run their own stadium these matches are a cash drain. A good point, but I don't think adding this extra game or two (especially for the USL-2 clubs) should kill their seasons. In fact, if they can pull off a win, then they might be looking at an MLS or USL-1 club coming to town, which usually pays for itself, IIRC.
All these posts go to many of the complaints we have had about the Open Cup being under promoted etc.. - This is why all MLS and USL d-1 teams must come in earlier than they do now. When a big team goes to a smaller town, it creates interest and of course, one of the great things about the cups, the david-vs.-goliath upset. Thats what makes the FA Cup and other good cups great. - If the PDL club doesn't have lights, play a day game. If they don't have a good stadium, borrow one. Or give up the home date and be the away team like in England. - I like the regional concept, but I do not like the idea of league games being qualifiers, defeats the whole purpose of the cup
I agree with you as well canammj. But till the time comes when there is all squads equal in all divisions And I mean 20 clubs each division, there will be the lower level qualifying for the tournament using regular season match points doubling into USOC Qualifying points. It has to be a slow process to get everything done the right way. I agree with everyone that all clubs should be involved and to eliminate qualifying matches that are during the regular season. Even when MLS got started in US Open Cup play, they had to qualify for the USOC as well. Whoever won their match in MLS play that was designated as the qualifier, they would advance. When DC, Dallas, Chicago won the Cup, they got automatic bids, Later on all MLS clubs advanced into the USOC when they started the East/West bracekts and after the end of the East/West brackets. Here is my feelings again. 50 clubs in the PDL? That's way to much. Some of these PDL clubs are formerly A-League or D3 clubs. Try to move them back to fill in USL 1st & USL 2nd division spots. 12 spots remain for USL 1st Division, 11 Spots available for USL 2nd Division. 20 clubs in PDL 30 removed 23 spots remain combind in USL 1st & 2nd Division That would mean 13 are left and what do you do with 13 clubs remaining? Maybe they do their own thing or become a 5th division. Then Amateur clubs in USASA. There is alot of things here that has to be ironed out. But I believe that something will be worked out. What will happen I don't know I'm not with the USSF, MLS, or USL. Just fans & supporters of this lovely cup tournament.
I think that the main reason why it becomes a revenue drain for most PDL clubs is that they aren't budgeting for additional Open Cup games. The first few ones are included because they are also league game. Since the teams are already working on a really tight budget, throwing in additional expenses that you didn't think about can really cause a hit to the books. There are more game expenses then just venue rental, there is all corresponding expenses that go along with that. Also, since the vast majority of the PDL teams do not own or control their venue. So it may be hard to get one on a few weeks basis. Also, as a FYI, it is a PDL requirement to have lights at your venue. But that venue may not be available. You would be surprised the difficulties to getting a venue.