World Football Historic Center (Dearman Blogspot)

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Palinha was good but Toninho Cerezo was brilliant and the player of the match against AC Milan. It is Baresi not Costacurta with the errant pass for the goal by Turu Flores. Too bad Rai could not play great at WC94, otherwise he would have gone down as a true legend. I believe his game influenced Riquelme a lot.
    I always wonder how Yugoslavia would have done had they been allowed to play, led by Stojkovic with Savicevic, Prosinecki, Suker, Boban, MIjatovic and Mihailovic in great form.
    Is Laudrup overrated based on these performances?
     
  2. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    @Dearman

    Why have you changed Messi as the second best player? Now this third
     
  3. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    #953 Dearman, May 7, 2018
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
    It is clearly Costacurta (No. 5) who made the mistaken pass not Baresi. The video try to focus Baresi after conceding a goal so I'm not sure you're misunderstood for this point. Also the scorer is Asad not Turu Flores.

    Yugoslavia would meet very great opportunity to win Euro if the war did not happen as they are spending their peak in qualifying round. Anyway, Stojkovic was injury at the tournament moment. Suker was not in a good performance, scoring only 6 goals in La liga during the 1991 - 1992 season.

    In Ballon'Dor ranking, Laudrup would not be overrated as he never finished top five. He might be overrated with top 30 best ever.
     
  4. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    #954 Dearman, May 7, 2018
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
    The active player are never guaranteed their place due to progressive performance. The lower performance in the system can be more negative when player failed more matches. Messi is considered to be failed at the second leg of UCL quarter-final.

    Moreover, I applied a new rating to the system "Trophy Bonus". Previously, I did not apply because trophy is a team achievement. However, I become thinking trophy acquisition is inevitably one of the important aspects to identify legend status. To avoid the utmost luck to win trophy by team circumstance, I give trophy bonus for only individual performance at least Supreme-World-Class in only major international competition both club and country. In exceptional case, player with the runner-up of world cup is also given bonus if reached supreme-world-class or higher to equalize with champion of Euro or Copa America.

    However, Messi is very likely to surpass Maradona after World Cup if he played wll and Argentina reached at least QF round.
     
  5. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    How do you make out the shirt number, the videos are all very grainy.

    Yugoslavia had depth though, Boban could be made the primary playmaker if Piksi was injured, and Mijatovic could replace Suker. But I also meant for WCs 94 and 98, and Euros 92 and 96. They would have been a force.

    I will re-evaluate Laudrup in my top 30, it seems he lacks the big moments for such a lofty placement.
     
  6. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He's done very well domestically though. Pretty much unanimiously considered the best domestic player in all of Europe this season, by carrying Barcelona to the domestic double.

    The man has won the European Golden Boot, been the team's playmaker, and registered 21 assists. By anyone else's standards, that would be one of their career's best season.
     
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  7. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    The historical international goal highlight summary

    The related available international matches highlight apart from the 220 full-matches have been watched to monitor performance of assister, scorer and keeper.

    I'm surprised that the 1924 Olympic games final match highlight between Uruguay and Switzerland is available with very high quality and long clip around 20 minutes. Jose Nasazzi is very great in positional standing and win in all aerial battles. The most valuable scene will be Jose Leandro Andrade who is questionable for a long- time if he is best at defensive midfielder or wing-back in nowadays. The scene he makes skillful slide tackle at the right-side defensive midfield area, is tend to conclude he is fit to wing-back position. I might transfer him to defender position accordingly. No special scene for Scarone regrettably.

    The most clips in the pre-war era is awful in quality as the movement is unnaturally displayed in video. However, some matches are obvious enough. Leonidas Da Silva is very deadly striker with prominent powerful and shot. Although he played as inside-forward at early career, his style is very likely to be a target-man so I will move him to striker position. Gyorgi Sarosi is another player that I’m curious about his level. The 2 scenes he scores are not spectacular and no footage for his defensive skill to watch. Only 2 scenes to have watched Matthias Sindelar, He is really a withdrawn forward placing himself outside penalty area and his ball control is stumble. Giuseppe Meazza is amazing in dribbling speed with enthusiastic manner. He also shot the ball decisively. It is regrettable that the clip of the 1931 England versus Spain shows only 1 goal when Zamora conceded 7 goals to England. It is interesting to know how many of them is not his fault. The available video does not show his superb skill at all. Giampiero Combi is disappointing when his position, handling and interception all are not satisfied. I can find only 2 scoring scenes for Tommy Lawton and all are tapped to shot easily. Frank Swift is OK in general. There is no video clip of Rudolph Hiden to watch.

    In the war-time era, La Maquina is mainly focused. The more videos of Jose Manuel Moreno have been available. The constituent of his skill is strange when he possesses both high physical strength and technical ability so his running is powerfully dangerous. Moreno style is more attacking-mind than playmaking with great off-the-ball movement. Few scene of Perdernera saw his great dribbling only. Labruna is very quick from left-side forward. There is no footage of Loustau, Martino and Pontoni found. Surprisingly, the long run video of Fernando Peyroteo has been available with very clear display. It is a new knowledge that his dribbling is in competitive level for striker position. He possesses high strength and great positional play but his shooting style is not spectacular at all. Regrattably Josef Bican footage is unavailable.

    In the post-war era to mid-1950s, Valentino Mazzola is seen to be a great organizer in match against England. Ference Deak scored in torpedo heading style in Dr Gero Cup. Ademir scores most goals after he running with the ball, it seems he is not a kind of tapped player. Zizinho is phenomenally agile and he controls the ball smoothly sticky to his feet. Ernst Ocwirk is an impressive box-to-box midfielder who is really great in supporting forward area to score from the back-line. There is only one scene to watch Hanappi who make an accurate curve passing. Abe Lenstra is skillful in ball controlling, possessing powerful shooting and even great in air. Faas Wikes dribbling speed could be one of the best ever. In Yugoslavia golden generation, Vladimir Beara is one of best reflex savers ever with very agile movement. Although he conceded a ton of goals, all of his conceding goals are seen to be out of capability but there is no full-match to analyze his overall skill. Vukas is superb dribbler and he operates the game in both wing and central attacking midfield area. Tom Finney in a FA Cup final dominates in dribbling on right-wing, mainly great in speed of ball controlling. Nat Lofehouse dominates in air with very great positional play. Lorenzo Buffon is disappointing when he concedes goals with bad positional standing and not makes good decision. Carl Aage Praest dribbling and acceleration is spectacular and even contribute accurate crossing.
     
  8. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    League form is the baseline to enter the discussion but this year the WC will decide how this season rates in his career.

    I agree Andrade should be right-back in modern conversion and rates arguably as number two all-time for the position only behind Carlos Alberto. Meazza should be considered arguably top ten of all time if more attention is given to pre-war era. Did any Belgian players stand out from their Olympics victory?

    Had the WC been played in the 40s, it's almost sure Moreno would be top five of all time, ahead of DiStefano and Puskas. Also Pedernera, Finney and Zizinho would be rated very highly.

    Why are not the full matches available but only extended highlights?
     
  9. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    I'm not sure how was J.M.Moreno consistent. He moved to play in Mexican league in which should be much lower than the Argentine one at his 28 years old and he scored only 11 league goals on total 41 games, is not good stats for that era. Moreover, he was a regular first team player for Argentina for only 3 years. Please see this stats.

    1937 Caps 2 games from total 7
    1938 Caps all 2 games
    1939 Caps 2 games from total 4
    1940 Caps only 3 games from total 11
    1941 Caps all 9 games
    1942 Caps all 8 games
    1943 not capped even playing in Argentine league
    1944 not capped (played in Argentine league 8 matches
    1944 - 1946 Not capped (played aborad)
    1947 Capped all 6 games

    I'm not sure about your question because it is clear no available international full-matches in the pre 1954 world cup.
     
  10. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    The historical international goal highlight summary (mid-50s to mid-1990s)

    Goalkeeper

    Bert Trautmann performance in two consecutive FA Cup final full-matches are monitored. He is looked agile and enthusiastic with his 34 years old. He is very good in positional play and very reliable overall.

    The British Home Championship video highlights are existed in every year Gordon Banks played for England. He several times is struggle to save the aerial passed ball, not jump high enough to reach and his body strength is another thing disadvantageous in aerial battle. Banks also like to stand on the goal line as safety first concept but the scene he allows the ball pass in the goal area just in front him without any pressure from opponent is just incredible.

    In contrary to Gordon Banks, Patt Jennings has a sweeping-keeping style, like to go outside the goal area. I watch around 40 conceding goals of him, it is very rare to justify his mistake.

    Jose Angel Iribar make an unforgivable mistake in 1968 Euro qualifying. He is expected to save the ball with his hand conveniently but the ball bounced his hand turn to clash the net. Aside from the mistake scene in 1984 Euro final, Arconada concedes many goals with his awful handling ability.

    Dino Zoff concedes a ton of goals from long-shot because he decide to jump too late as if he is not sure about the ball direction.

    There are also some scenes Peter Schmeichel is struggle in reading the game. With Denmark, he mistakes in anticipating the long pass direction similar to s scene he was notorious with man Utd.at UEFA Champion League. Some time he is too hurry in guessing the ball direction such as the scene he concedes a goal to Luis Enrique in 1996 Euro qualifying. However, his reflex saves and incredible high jumping in premier league have been imprinted to me.


    Scorer

    Most of Eduard Streltsov video highlight is in the late 1960s that is not his prime. Anyway some few scenes at his peak during the late 1950s saw his great ball controlling, acceleration and decisive shot.

    Alberto Spencer is very complete striker and scores many spectacular goals. The most incredible one is the scene he start operate the game at right-side midfield area and then he a one-two 2 steps with great acceleration get through the dangerous zone and score achievably.

    Kevin Keegan is great in aerial scoring with his heading ability as well as Boniek . As I criticize Dalglish in full-matches project, he makes a wonderful goal by dribbling pass 2 defenders and score to the top-corner, is just impressive.

    I did not watch George Weah regularly when I was young and I doubt if he should be target man or second forward as he scores too few goals but now it has been clear he is best at target-man. At PSG, he scores most international goals in very short distance in front of the goal.

    Van Basten is still worth to mention. Once he shot the ball while he is losing his balance due to being collided by opponent and his touching to shot is very technical and incredibly control trajectory of the ball to be a goal.
     
  11. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    http://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2013/01/Greatest-Ever.html
    http://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2013/01/Competition-Level.html

    The update for the 2017 - 2018 club season is done with the new calculation of trophy bonus and ability rating as a result from video watching project. The paper for ability rating is anyway drafting so I'd explain briefly as below ;


    The improvement

    Trophy Bonus : The bonus is give for only players who achieve at least supreme-world-class and won the international trophies are World Cup, Euro, European Cup/UEFA Champion League/Copa Libertadores Cup. The bonus point is varied by standard of competition such as Euro 60 is given lower bonus than the 1968 on wards. The bonus point is also depend on frequency of tournament held such as 0.4 for World Cup, 0.1 for UCL.

    The Ability Rating : As a result of value rating, the percentage of each skill aspect are applied as a criteria. There are only 3 categories.

    1) Attackers includes all players who has the better overall offensive skill than defensive skill regardless of their position. The defensive percentage is given by 5 % physical ability around 32 % and offensive ability is at 63 %

    2) Defender includes all players who has the better overall defensive skill than offensive skill. The defensive percentage is given by 38 % physical ability around 32 % and offensive ability is at 30 %

    3) Goalkeeper with 42 % physical ability and 58 % keeping skill.


    The plan of lower performance calculation : As my current system is just taken lower performance by general perspective, it will be improving. All approved international matches which player get below 7 point will be divided by total approved international matches. I will done at the same time I update for the 2018 world cup.

    The calculation formula is also adjusted as Basic Score + Lower performance*0 + Ability*0.02


    Conclusion of Update

    In ability rating, the result shows Beckenbauer and Cristiano Ronaldo are in the same level and their basic score is different by a slight margin. However, Beckenabuer won World Cup with top performance are given a bonus of 0.4 is a key value that he is still ahead of CR7 who is not given bonus for the 16 Euro (rating under supreme-world-class).

    There is a slight movement for Muller surpass Matthaus to 12th. Rijkaard is ranked up around 10 place to 30th.


    For the positional ranking update will be spent more around 1 week.
     
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  12. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Had the WCs taken place and Argentina decides to send their best squad, Moreno would have been a starter for sure. There was a lot of variability for friendlies and Copa Americas for the era, especially with the depth of Argentina during that decade. I think with winning at least one of those WCs with a supreme performance, it would put him in the highest tier historically.

    Not sure why the video highlights are available but not the matches themselves. They must be somewhere if they were recorded.
     
  13. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-evaluated-scorecards.html

    Now the positional hall of fame main list (7 categories) has been updated for 2017 – 2018 season. Importantly, the new system has been adopted with total skill evaluation, which is calculated from the recent video watching skill evaluation project, with 24 % against 76 % performance point criteria. That means the higher skillful players have gotten a chance to be ranked higher than ever before.

    Summary of Important Update

    Goalkeeper : Maier is down from 6th to 10th.
    Casillas is down from 11th to 14th.

    Defender : J.L Andrade is moved from CM.
    Sergio Ramos is a new comer in the list.
    Shulz and Vierchowod are removed out of top 50.

    Central Midfielder : Modric first come in the top 50 list.
    Offensive Lateral : Hazard first appear in top 50. Michel is out.

    Haesler replaces Boniek as reshuffled between AM and OL list.

    Offensive Midfielder : Boniek come in as aforementioned.

    Forward : Zsengeller replaces Leonidas as reshuffled between FW and STK list.

    Striker : Leonidas come in as aforementioned.
    Spencer is dramatically ranked up from 48th to 35th
    (As full-evaluated, Lewandowski has a slight margin to surpass Ian Rush rating)


    http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2014/02/The9x100.html

    The 9 categories has been also updated. The active players apart from top 50 in 7 categories have a progression of ranking are Marcelo Vieira, Mat Hummels, Sergio Busquets, Toni Kroos, David Silva, Alexis Sanchez, Kevin De Bruyne, Anotoine Griezmann and Robert Lewandowski. Note that Mezur Ozil, Thomas Muller are not moved in ranking due to being rated below international-class by kicker.
     
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  14. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    You should also account for the level of opportunity that players across eras had for your criteria. Nowadays, there are far more opportunities for players to feature in international matches, both official and friendlies, than there were before. The Euro has gone from four teams in the 60s and 70s, to eight teams in the 80s and early 90s, to sixteen teams and since two years ago it's a bloated twenty-four. Imagine the greater chances for Best, Eusebio, Puskas, etc.in a 16-team format. Similar level of growth for the WC, where someone like Spencer or Ortiz would have benefited with more slots.
     
  15. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Thanks but the opportunity level calculation method has been included in my system for years. If not apply, players like George Best will be surely struggle to qualify in top 50 because he never play in international major tournament when his club career is also unstable.
     
  16. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Makes sense, it's a strong theoretical model then.
     
  17. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    As a respond to the last line here. To the contrary, this is one of his best performances with the NT in Copa America 89. He nutmegged Maradona, gave Bebeto the assist for the opening goal and then scored the second goal himself. Then he did that double sombrero in the box before the match drew to an end. How can that be unremarkable?
     
  18. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    He did not play remarkably for the whole game that what I mean but he did it well. When Brazil dominated in ball possession, Romario has a few impressive scenes compared to what Bebeto did. For his productivity, I'm not very impressive at his assist to the first goal as he just pass back to Bebeto who is unmarked. His second goal is achieved easily because Argentine defender kick the ball in misdirection. The double sombrero is any superb enough.
     
  19. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2013/04/Total-Skill.html

    As long run of skill evaluation project which is the last evaluation project of WFHC, now the paper has been completed just in time before the 2018 World Cup.

    1) The main result is scorecard of skill evaluation that shows point for each skill function, weight criteria for each skill function and the sampling detail (number of video watched for each player, status of sampling for unavailable full-matches video are highlight and paper analysis..
    2) The minor result is "Specialized Skill". The calculation table shows the skill attributes. For Example, Dribbling consists of accuracy, agility and technique.

    http://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2013/01/Greatest-Ever.html

    In addition to skill evaluation, the ability evaluation scorecard is also added in footballer evaluation result paper. It also describes the value analysis factors to set weight criteria between abilities in different position/function.

    During the world cup, I will summarize the list of "The Greatest Individual Performance in a single international tournament". After than, there will be a video highlight of WFHC introduction. I plan to finalize my 10 years mega-project within September.
     
  20. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I know you include attributes such as stamina, strength, tackling as part of overall skills, but I feel this may give a distorted view for some players. For example, Rummenigge has a higher score than Gullit, Baggio, Romario, Laudrup, Hagi which is odd when observing their respective ability. Cristiano Ronaldo is evaluated with the seventh highest skill score, which is not commensurate to his actual talent. He should not have a higher score than Platini, Ronaldinho, Moreno, Garrincha, Ronaldo, Zidane, Didi.

    The skill evaluation must weigh more the attributes of creativity and technique primarily, and then passing, dribble, shooting. The other ones are more related to work rate done by the less talented players, and it should not be confused with higher qualities.
     
  21. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    I am quite agree with you that I underrate creativity but in a minor scale. Creativity as a method of playing must be at least more important than physical aspects. Now I decide to increase it by 2 % allow many creative players like Zidane and Platini is ranked up. For technique, As U already give weight for dribble, the technique is mainly a first-touch or basic ball controlling.
     
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  22. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    The lists updated for 2018 World Cup has been done.

    2017 - 2018 Best Player in the World
    http://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2013/01/Annual-Best-Player.html

    As Modric's great performance in UCL and World Cup, he is named as number one. The 3rd is equal between C.Ronaldo and Hazard and the decisive factor is peak performance.

    The Best Players of All-Time

    http://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2013/01/Greatest-Ever.html
    http://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2013/01/Competition-Level.html

    C.Ronaldo has surpassed Di Stefano. Aside from his progressive great performance, Di Stefano is found to be overrated in both opportunity factor and his phenomenon rating in La Liga is extremely questionable. Messi still has a chance to surpass Maradona who failed in international club in related 2-3 seasons but it would not be overstatement that he has a few chance to overthrown Pele as the greatest ever.

    Positional Hall of Fame

    http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-evaluated-scorecards.html
    http://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2014/02/The9x100.html

    Luca Modric came in top 50 CM just before World Cup although I think I included him later than he should have been. His ranking is sharply increased to 16th central midfielder of all-time. Neymar, Hazard, L.Suarez are also ranked up.
    In 9x100 list, Pogba and Griezmann are first appeared in the list at middle zone . Godin is also ranked up to top 50 central defender of all-time.

    International Legendary Museum

    https://xtralegend.blogspot.com/

    Modric is now a starter in all-time Yugoslav XI as well as Hazard for Belgium XI. Cavani is just made profile in Uruguay museum. Griezmann and Pogba are also made profile in all-time France squad in substitution zone.

    For National Team ranking, I plan to finish at the end of this week.
     
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  23. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    I do not understand how Modric was better this season than Messi, Salah or De Bruyne. Anyway, excellent work as always.
     
  24. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    Considerar a Modric como uno de los mejores centrocampistas de la historia es correcto, sin embargo, no entiendo por qué Toni Kroos, siendo uno de los 10 mejores jugadores de la Copa del Mundo 2014, campeón mundial, campeón de campeones en Bayern y Madrid, ni siquiera en los 50 mejores Tal vez sea por la edad, ya que es bastante joven, pero creo que ya tiene los pergaminos relevantes para tener un lugar importante en el ranking.
     
  25. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    I’ll stir things here because it will not fly well with his fans, but putting club football aside, I don’t think he deserves to sit in the same table alongside some truly standout Albiceleste gold and silver champions. He’s had more opportunities than previous men and come up always short at the last hurdle.

    The exclusive club of becoming a world champ has eluded him and he’s done very little on the world stage to stamp his mark with authority as Kempes or Maradona were able to do with a bang!

    If there is a tie-breaker amongst players that have been great at club and for country in important events, Messi trails behind. More importantly, the 2018 team was a prisoner of his capriciousness: it was sabotaged to please his demands at the expense of forming a young balanced team.

    He gets no mercy from me anymore and his legacy for the NT is tainted in my view, filled with disappointments and underachievements.

    Great Argentinian NT men that shedded blood for that jersey (many buried) and that drove their teams to glory covering and soaking themselves in silver and gold, are probably asking themselves: was this guy greater than us ? He sure will be remembered so.

    But oh my, how the standards have changed over the years....
     

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