World Football Historic Center (Dearman Blogspot)

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    The number of games is also dependent on format and availability of competition so the number cannot be compared directly. Moreover, there are some seasons Pires played below the standardized level.
     
  2. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Diego Maradona deserves a 9.5 for the WC86 final, he beat Germany by playing between the lines.

    For me, Paolo Rossi was man of the match in the WC82 final. I believe him and Oleg Salenko are the only players to score six consecutive goals for their team at the tournament.
     
  3. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Argentina's success in the final is much credited to Maradona. As he was encircled by German defensive players in almost every sec, it is a huge benefit for his teammates that was much more comfortable to get chance with the ball.

    I'd prefer Conti who was a main driver of Italy's offence, performing superb dribbling and chance creation. Rossi scored under normal situtation when German players were already out of marking zone.
     
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  4. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What was crucial about Rossi was that his goal was almost inevitable and it told Germany they were going to lose.
     
  5. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    @Dearman Because Luis Monti is a better player than José Leandro Andrade in the global ranking but not in the position of defensive midfielder?

    [​IMG]



    The 100 Greatest Defensive Midfielders of All-Time

    1. Lothar Matthaeus (Germany)
    2. Frank Rijkaard (Holland)
    3. Jozsef Bozsik (Hungary)
    4. Paul Breitner (Germany)
    5. Ernst Ocwirk (Austria)
    6. Jose Leandro Andrade (Uruguay)
    7. Luis Monti (Argentina)


    I also can not understand how José Leandro Andrade integrates the ideal selection of history. (reserved)



    Finally, Carlos Sosa (Argentina) does not join the list of the 100 best lateral defenders in history? Surely there was not an error?
     
  6. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    In global ranking, International Country criteria is set in higher percentage than positional list. As J.L.Andrade is evaluated higher point in NT part, he become surpass Monti by margin.

    Carlos Sosa made only 12 appearances for Argentina as many as his argentine contemporary Norberto Yacono and defender position is basically required consistent performance. RC Paris bought him to play in France during the 1950s in the era that rare pure Argentine players moved to play in Europe. I have to get more info about his career anyway.
     
  7. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    I'd devide the third set into two parts. The first part is provided in this post. the second part of the 1966 World Cup will be followed soon.


    Match Summary III-I.png

    It is my second time to watch the 1954 World Cup final. Aside from incomplete body condition of Ferenc Puskas, one of the causes Hungary was beaten is Czibor’s unaccustomed position, an outside-right. He missed the important goal in short distance by his inefficient right-foot. In contrary, Helmut Rahn’s feet is equal. He moves inside and able to score by his left-foot by powerful shot.

    In 1957 FA Cup Final, I mainly focus on Duncan Edwards. He is unparalleled strong in defense and possesses some technique. On the other hand, most of his vision and passing scenes are failed. I note he made overpassing 4 times that all of them are either much misdirected or overweight and let Man Utd concede ball possessions from total 6 times but he was still named in top five Ballon’Dor in that year. In my country, I heard since I was young that he had enough potential to be the greatest ever alongside Pele and Maradona is probably one of the most overrated praises.

    The 1962 (Full Highlight 40 minutes), 1963 and 1966 Copa Libertadores Cup Final video, is very unclear, are monitored. Apart from Pele who is always intelligent and effective in advanced playmaker role, I focus on Pepe who I never watched in full-match. Pepe is fast and classy in technique but lack of great imagination so it seems his teammate try to more operate the game on right-wing (Dorval) than left-side area. Jose Sanfilippo has a style to always conduct the ball by himself to score with his great acceleration and powerful shot. Ernesto Grillo and Ermindo Onega has a similar creative style of play with outstanding agility and high sense of coordination but the second one performs in more free-role. It also very good chance to watch Mazurkiewicz and Carrizo in a full-match. Both are agile and enthusiastic. All of their conceded goals is beyond one’s capability.

    The Penarol offensive Trio “Rocha-Joya-Spencer” is focused. It is amazing about scoring scene by Rocha’s heading that is really skillful. Rocha is very good in any aspect of playmaker, most notable his technique and also accurate in free-kick. Joya is dominate in physical, is strong and fast with considerable technique but he is lack of spirit, intentionally kicking the ball out to the grandstand to stall. Spencer scored both goals with his proficient heading. He is also good in teamwork not just a tapped player.

    The 1965 European Cup Final is watched in only first half but the raining fall prevents players to fulfill their potential and is perhaps the most tiresome European club final match ever. The 1966 Final is mainly focused on Velibor Vasovic, Fahrudin Jusufi and Amancio, As the quality of video is also not good and no commentator voice, players are monitored by positional play. Amancio has proved he also played well as a deep-lying forward. Fahrudin Jusufi is nothing but complete in full-back qualification. For Vasovic, I will conclude again next time after watch the 1969 final match. The 1967 final’s most remarkable one must be Jimmy Johnstone who is highly impressive for his creativity and dribble when his speed is normal and his scoring ability is below average. The Inter Milan players who seems to be too much dependent on the team tactic Catenaccio whose defensive line is very deep and finally allows two conceded goals from Celtic’s midfielders long shot
     
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  8. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Paul Breitner is not a defensive midfielder, he played on the left flank of midfield or defense.

    Also, where would you rank Carlos Sosa among Argentine fullbacks?

    Not sure I understand, if global ranking counts international performances higher, shouldn't Andrade rank higher than Monti for the global list?
     
  9. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    During his very famous second period at Bayern Munich he mainly played in a central midfielder role, but certainly not as a defensive one, but more like an offensive box-to-box midfielder with defensive tasks.

    However, seeing Matthäus, Bozsik and Ocwirk in the same category (none of them a pure defensive midfielder either), I think it can be understood that he groups box-to-box and a kind of deep holding midfielders there.
     
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  10. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Breitner's defensive quality is great enough to be categroized in DM position as a box-to-box midfielder as it is also better to see him in playmaker list.

    You are correct. L.Andrade is ahead of Monti in footballer (global list) but Monti is ranked higher in DM list due to different criteria.
     
  11. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
  12. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    The rating of Loustau is currently subjective as no video to watch but he was an important player of River Plate in the 1948 South American club championship, scoring 4 goals the most productive for River Plate equal to Di Stefano. Anyway Loustau played only 70 % of league game at that year.

    Others outstanding candidate is Tom Finney and Stanley Matthews who won FWA footballer of the year and Tom Finney who scored 2 goals against Italy led by Valentino Mazzola and he scored. I did not select them as I gave very high importance on major international tournament (1948 Olymic Games) that England did not participate. As the criteria has been actually changed, I revise the best winger in 1948 from Loustau to Matthews who has a concrete individual awards achievement.
     
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  13. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    1966 World Cup.png

    In the 1966 World Cup, the Argentine team is impressive in its teamwork ability. Artime-Onega-Mas and Perfumo-Marzolini is mainly focused. Perfumo is proficient for his quick movement from the back of opponent to cut off the ball in front of them. He has a problem to manage with his aerial battle twice when he try to intercept the ball from misdirect standing and it is almost an own goal .For another case, his short jump allows opponent to score too easy. Marzolini is seen to be fast when he run without the ball and he is very reliable in his positional sense. Antonio Rattin is superb in reading the game and ball winning, is one of the best destroyers ever. Onega is seen to make several inaccurate passes apart from his great vision and movement as mentioned. Oscar Mas is really fast and agile, mostly coordinate with his teammate to move forward to inside area. Artime is a main poacher as he seldom participate with the ball.

    The scene of Rocha technique is unforgettable when he juggle ball across his head and an English defender and move 180 degree to volley the ball at once. It is a little out of target.

    For Eastern European teams, The Hungarian Du-O forward Albert-Bene is focused. Albert is an amazing complete forward with elegant movement. Bene is agile in dribbling but his imagination is too limited when he is set as a right-winger. For USSR, Shesternev is a true reliable sweeper. He is slow but compensate by his great position and reading the game. Compared to most defensive midfielders, Voronin is remarkably agile and more elaborate with the ball. Dimitar Yakimov often shows his skillful dribbling. Asparuhov is during his prime but I don’t see any spectacular on his footage and is overrated for being regarded as the greatest Bulgarian player ever.

    In the semi-final between W.Germany and USSR, Lev Yashin made a phenomenon incredible save of Seeler’s shot in only 2 meters distance catching with his hand. Yashin anticipates the direction of the ball completely. Seeler bewilders for this magic save. However, Yashin is a bit too lazy and careless when he allows goal conceding without attempt to jump.

    The 1966 German players are monitored individually. Schnellinger often move forward to semi-side midfield area thanks for his versatility as he performs well in central defender, full-back or wing-back role. There is a noticeable flaw in his reading ability when he mistakenly anticipates the opponent running direction and he fling to tackle the ball in different direction of opponent. Schulz is reliable in overall but slow and he was once stolen the ball unknowingly from the back. However, the weak point of Germany defensive line is Hottges who failed to mark Geoff Hurst for the first conceding goal and he mistakenly kick out for the second one. In midfielder, Beckenbauer as a young defensive midfielder is a bit impetuous when he made ineffective abrupt tackle a couple of times. Haller as an advanced midfielder is superb in scoring sense with 6 goals in 5 games, is deserved as the best German player of the tournament. Seeler as an inside-forward is seen to be diligent and extremely beneficial for his team although he was unsuccessful in overall score productivity. He even run deeper into midfield area to win the ball.

    For England side, Charlton is very well-organized with a smooth playmaking style that led he make no assist through the tournament. Charlton should be world-class in only organizing role but not for his ball controlling and productivity and for me he is man of the match in only the final game for all related 4 matches. Bobby Moore always made accurate long passing and even assist for an important goal against Portugal. None of mistake scene of Bobby Moore in all 4 matches I watch.

    In conclusion, I select Eusebio to win the golden ball. Bobby Moore for Silver ball and Haller for Bronze Ball. As Charlton World Cup performance is rated down, he is down one place to 17th best player ever.

    For the current plan, as I have complete full-matches list to watch with the total number of 235. The project plan is adjusted to finish much earlier within April 2018.
     
  14. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    1968.png

    I start at “The United Trinity”. Three related matches in 1968 and 1969 saw George Best’s irregular performance, He several times operates in right-wing and shows a spectacular dribbling as expected but his enterprising one-man-show style of play is considered too extravagant in many scenes that lose ball possession unnecessarily. It is also noticeable that his dribbling is more dependent on acceleration than technique. The Trio is not characterized as a remarkable coordinative one but it is more a group of three famous players as Man Utd played football with total team work, allowing other attackers create many benefits to the team. Regarding the match, in 1969 semi-final against Milan, Man Utd have a ball across the line to draw 2-2 in aggregate but not a goal by referee.

    In three related matches, Rivera has a unique passing technique with a curve that is very easy for teammate to proceed. In 1969 European Cup Final, Ajax dominates in ball possession. All of their attackers are fast and very good in alternating position but their defense is extremely leak and can’t manage with Milan’s counterattack. Velibor Vasovic has a positioning problem when he establish himself too deep and open the space for opponent to shot.

    Van Hanegem is highly admired in the 1970 European Cup final. He contributes many curve pass from his outer foot. He is also strong with highly balance and his style and ability could be categorized in both playmaker or box-to-box midfielder. Although Kindvall scores a winning goal in extra-time, he is rather extravagant in his opportunity during the normal time. Moulijn is creative and very good team work players but he has passed his prime in that year.

    “The 1967 British Match of Century”, the Euro qualification quarter-final, England versus Scotland is extremely valuable to watch as both team is considered as the best team ever of their country and the match is extremely colorful. England just acquire the World trophy while there are 4 players available in all-time Scottish XI, Denis Law, Billy Bremner, Jim Baxter and John Grieg (Jimmy Johnstone did not participate in this match and as I check, these five players played together only 2 matches during 1966). Denis Law performs in distinguish role from Man Utd, he plays deeper and shows many agile and skillful ball control scenes. Bremner’s role is similar to Van Hanegem as he could be considered in either playmaker or box-to-box midfielder, possessing impressive agility, quick thinking and playmaking ability. Jim Baxter’s style of play is inert. He is too slow and lack of movement effort although he has excellent technique and playmaking skill. He is really unsuitable to British football philosophy.

    In semi-finalist and finalist of the 1968 Euro, I mainly focus on Dragan Dzajic. He is not a pure winger when he often move to support the central area and finally scoring winning goal against England and the open goal in the first final match. But still, Yugoslavia didn’t emphasize on dependence of him so he is not a large contributor during the ball possession.

    Thanks for divine of luck that Italy won coin toss as they’re better than USSR in all aspects with a ton of chances but failed to finish score. The issue about Rivera and S.Mazzola is discussed as this match is one of the last games they’re allowed played together on the pitch. At Inter Milan, Mazzola is more free in his role to indispensably link the game between defense and forward. At Italy, the main creator is Rivera and Mazzola is in charge of support striker role and both is seen to be declined in performance, is a common due to mutual sharing of creative force while their coordination is not a problem and it should be actually beneficial to the team in overall.

    There is no movement in performance ranking in this time.
    Next time will be the 1970 World Cup Final.
     
  15. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand

    Match Summary I.png

    1970 World Cup Final Match Summary


    In related two matches. Hector Chumpitaz is extraordinary on the ground defense with his high speed, agile and technical utilization. Cubillas is always dangerous for opponents. He always looks for either going straight forward or coordinating with his teammates to score the goal but sometimes too hurry to shot in long distance widely. Hugo Sotil substitutes in the second half and his dribbling and technical skill are awesome. Anyway, Gallardo is also one of the best Peruvians player in the tournament.

    For Bulgaria side, Bonev plays in his unusual position, a left-winger which he performs well enough. He is a great physical and dynamic attacker. Only one match watched for Belgium as I expect to watch more in the 1972 Euro, Paul Van Himst is both energetically and technically characterized. He is quite strong and diligent. Van Moer is seen to be more playmaker than box-to-box midfielder at that time. Colin Bell is only issue for English players. He substitutes Bobby Charlton in two related matches. Bell is a great dribbler in 1-1 confrontation as an attacking midfielder role. He is also more agile than Charlton but not outstanding enough for his playmaking role for England.

    West Germany in 1970 has Beckenbauer as a commander in midfield area. When he attacks, he is full of offensive midfielder quality with superb vision and passing. He attempts too many out-off target long-shots as it is not his great asset. Many scenes saw Berti Vogts dynamically perform offensive task. He is even a great supporter in attacking midfield area thanks to his speed, awareness of positional movement and let me reconsider if he is deserved in all-time World XI. Wolfgang Overath is rather disappointing. He was rated by Kicker in world-class but I see too often ineffective passes of him particularly twice failures under comfort situation. Gerd Muller is admired for his technique in ball touching and controlling that always facilitates himself a gold opportunity to shot.

    For Italy Team, Albertosi has a problem in ball opening as he made twice mistakes, kick and throw the ball to opponent’s forward and fall on the dangerous zone. These scenes let me consider to add ball opening minor skill in keeping skill evaluation. As I watch Facchetti several matches, he like to cover his zone and rare to see his tackle. Burgnich is one of the toughest right-backs ever, very strong and always reliable. Although Italy reaches the final match, the policy of rotation between S.Mazzola and Rivera is considered not a main influential factor. The team is really creditable just one match against West Germany in which is one of the most entertained World Cup matches ever. In the final, Italian midfield is much inferior to Brazil. When Italian defense is really not tough enough to adopt efficient counterattack strategy, leaving Rivera in the bench is one of worst managements in term of player resource utilization.

    The 1970 Brazil team that is globally regarded as a best national team ever remains arguable for me after watching semi-final match against Uruguay. In the first half, Uruguay adopt their hard-ultra-defensive strategy with high level of zone press and a lot of fouls prevent Brazilian players to flow its route. Importantly, the Brazilian Defense is lack of systematic quality. Pele, who is a centralized attacker of the team, performs below his standard, rarely makes dangerous contribution and often shoot out of target, largely impacts on the team performance. Brazil starts to stand firm when they concede the first goal. Clodoaldo played his best performance in this tournament. His style is smooth but always effective, purposive and beneficial to his team in both defense and offense.

    However, Brazil played superbly in all other matches particularly against England and Italy in final match. Carlos Alberto is reliable in defense as I rarely see his mistake or lose position, is much more impressive than what I saw Djalma play. Gerson’s style of playmaking is too limited and the majority of his passes are performed in a short distance to his colleague not drive the ball in advanced area and he rarely made a long pass unless his team has led in score to make it under comfort situation. Note that Gerson played only 3 matches in this tournament. Tostao is seen to be one of the best creative forwards of all-time. His reverse kick assist to Pele against Romania is one of the best assists ever.

    In conclusion, Gerd Muller could be the most outstanding individual performer of the tournament, scored 10 goals and made 2 assists from total Germany’s 16 goals (exclude third place match), is a phenomenon productivity (75 % productive contribution) although his style of play is not as attractive as Brazilian players. Pele is rated as a silver ball player, making 4 goals and 4 assists but he made many mistakes in his shooting during the tournament, best remembered for his shot-wide in a short distance to the target in the group round match. Jairzinho come to third place. He scores every game for Brazil but his contribution during the game is rather limited. 4th is Beckenbauer and 5th is Tostao in my evaluation.


    Important Update

    Gerson is ranked down from 16th to 20th greatest central midfielders of all-time.
     
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  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #866 PuckVanHeel, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    And yet he only receives a 7.0 as man of the match? What more should he do?

    It's the lowest man of the match in these lists next to Yakimov, Veron sr. and Pshenichnikov. Telling again.

    While the logical reasoning behind Gerson - as derived from the observations - is sensible and sound (and he did play only three games), this potentially undersells the nature of what Overath was doing.

    He was making 44% more passes than anyone else in the tournament (ahead of Peruvian Challe) so naturally the odds for an error pass increases. He also tended to play the ball with a relatively solid amount of pace, which helped him to 'create' so many 'chances' (33% more than any other midfielder, ahead of De Sisti). While 'chances' in the OPTA definition are not always real chances, they do tend to be more error prone passes (and tend to be 'effective passes'). He created 24 while his midfield colleagues Seeler and Beckenbauer had 9 each.

    Furthermore, some actions are (for a midfielder) more tiring than others. Interceptions and recoveries are in principle more tiring than a tackle (where he scores high too), a duel, a block and a clearance.

    Recovery is defined as: "this is where a player wins back the ball when it has gone loose or where the ball has been played directly to him.". For the midfielders this can be, can become, fairly tiring.

    With the absence of data about 'distance covered', 'sprints' and the such like these two stats are the best we have. It are these two, interceptions and recoveries, where Overath stands out again as a midfielder. Also this makes it more likely that an ineffective or bad pass will follow, after recovering an inaccurate ball.

    Unlike the Gerson part the reasoning and logic looks off here.
     
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  17. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    #867 Dearman, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    As a deep-lying midfielder, He did not much participate with the ball until the latter of game and extra time. Feyernoord and Celtic battled in quick direct ball strategy and their players included Van Hanegem had no much time to create the game elaborately. Feyernoord switched defense to offense rapidly. Most times the defenders and Jansen directed the ball to Hasil or other more advanced positions. Yakimov, Veron and Pshenichnikov is a key player in their related team with a high level of contribution.

    Interesting read for influential factor on midfielder performance. Anyway he is quite independent from recovery condition in twice related mistakes, Overath was opening the ball from deep-lying midfielder area. He made a short pass in transverse direction when the opponent was in nearby position to cut the ball conveniently. Outside these mistakes, his quality of changes creation is questionable when it is rare to see very accurate passed ball and made a further advantageous trajectory to his teammate.
     
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  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    For what's worth I think it is (very) defensible to view him as the 4th or 5th best of his team or so, but him making some passing mistakes (which all players did if you look closely) isn't one of those reasons. The odds are literally 44% higher than any other forward or midfielder. A better reason, in my eyes, is to see that he as central/offensive midfielder rarely dribbled past his man or generated the momentum to do so (also because of the way his team mates passed the ball to him).

    Also, if you look at the highlights again (which I just did) one sees he occasionally attracted the opposing midfielders to him, which granted his two midfield colleagues the space and momentum to shoot/lob the ball/dribble/pass.

    It's possible to show those examples (if one would be interested), and this also makes the seemingly ineffective sideways pass the most logical - and best - option to take.
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Also, Jairzinho was actually by a distance the most prolific (and successful with his attempts) dribbler of this tournament although it is correct he wasn't very involved in the play.
     
  20. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Match Summary I.png

    In the 1972 Euro qualification match, it is a new dimension of George Best performance. He contributes an absolute dominant dribbling as an attacking free-role from central midfield to wide and advanced area against Spanish players. N.Ireland anyway has too limitation of teammates ability so rare chances to be score. Pirri, a Spanish star, plays as a box-to-box midfielder, shows his consistent great technique in conducting the ball and vision to move and pass.

    In the 1972 FA Cup Final is intended to watch Leeds Utd stars, Bremner’s role is most likely a box-to-box midfielder, is a high work-rate and uncompromising player while Giles customarily performs as a deep-lying midfielder with smooth style of play. It is anyway rare scenes to see coordination between the two players.

    The dominance side of Ajax Amsterdam is focused. Ajax’s total football is considered to reach its peak in 1972 and 1973 with more balanced between level of alternation and skill matching. Ruud Krol’s skill in his attacking scene is comparable to side-midfielder quality. He is incredibly agile, technical and creative and just lack of high speed. Vasovic/Balnkenberg is adopted as an advanced libero role. . In 1971 final, Velibor Vasovic is a great vision player from the back-line but his inaccurate passing mostly unfulfilled his imagination. Aside from Keizer, the left-wing is mostly reshuffled by Cruyff, Muhren and Krol. The right–wing area is primarily participated by Swart/Rep, Haan, Neeskens and Suurbier. The central forward was alternated between three forwards. The total football is effectively implemented and generate phenomenon outcome in term of chance creations but quality of finishing is relatively low when only Cruyff possesses a proficient finishing skill.

    Cruyff is always efficient in his high speed dribbling with great compatible rhythm between his two feet, almost 100% get pass the opponents in 1-1 battle, mostly in the wing-area. In the central area, he is more coordinative player. As a temporary forward role, He scored by heading twice where his positional play and jumping is naturally performed. However, 4 undesirable scenes are seen, he crosses the ball and shoot by volleying style with his left-foot far out of the field line and target without any following opponent once of each. His first touch by right-foot is a bit too rebounded and lost the ball to opponent. He is also seen to have a too high step of acceleration one time and lose the ball in important chance of scoring. All in all, Cruyff’s dribbling and creativity skill is one of the best ever but not for technique. Keizer’s style of dribbling is not special but always effective although he is lack of high pace. Neeskens is highly admired for his technical ability and vision.

    In the 1973 European cup-QF Ajax VS Bayern, Sepp Maier made twice mistakes. Firstly, he tried to cut the short-crossed pass but finally unreachable and fortunately no Ajax player is waiting at the nearby area. Secondly, he intends to catch the shot ball but spatter to Ajax player scores a goal easily. Breitner also makes a mistake in passing the ball back to Maier that Ajax player snatches to score. When Ajax led in score, they adopt offside-trap in very high line closed to center-half area, highly impeding Bayern’s momentum to equalize. Beckenbauer plays in more limited role than what he does for West Germany when he less often go forward to avoid the risk in Bayern’s defense. Breitner is an incredible work rate player, running in both left, right-side and central midfielder area but his limited technique prevents him from proceeding the ball in many times. It is the first time I see Gerd Muller can drib pass player in midfield area.

    Brazil in 1972 Independence Cup final remains playing beautifully without Pele and Carlos Alberto but lack of great finisher preventing them from beating opponent easily. It is amazing how does Portugal combat with Brazil equally. Portugal has an incredible strong defense led by Humberto Coelho. Emerson Leao is a keeper who always stays at the goal line and seldom leave his zone to cut the ball.

    In the 1972 related matches, Rudakov is an absolute world-class keeper. His 1-1 saves against a German player is unforgettable. He decides to stay on the goal line and waits for the shot and finally he overtakes to save it. Khurtsilava dominate USSR defender. He is a quick and powerful stopper and possesses some technical skill. Van Himst is a highly creative forward who always operate the game from attacking midfielder area to forward zone but he was counted to make ineffective passes five time from total 6 times during semi-final match.

    The 1972 West Germany team is attested to be one of the best national teams ever. The team played football with relative high speed and always very dangerous for opponent. Beckenbauer is superb in his eye-to-pass in a long range and its accuracy is always expectable. Netzer is almost perfect in his passing performance in the 1972 Euro semi-final. His passing is always accurate, stylish with high curve and purposive to advanced position. He made both assists to Muller scores who totally scored 4 goals in two matches. Jupp Heyckes is anyway considered not suitable for the assigned side-forward role. He is lack of satisfied level of vision and often concedes the ball. In conclusion, I rate Netzer as the best player of the tournament. Beckenbauer comes second and Muller followed as a third place.

    England VS Poland in the 1974 World Cup qualification last match is really fun and worthy to watch. England is led by Colin Bell and Martin Peters made a number of exciting attacking waves with a ton of chances that is incredible to score only one goal due to prolific saves by Tomaszewski. The saving scene in 78th minutes is miracle when Allan Clarke get chance to shot in front of the goal just around 8 meters. The ball is powerfully directive but Tomaszewski is perfect in anticipation and reflex saving, is one of the best saves ever in football history.
    There is no movement in performance ranking according to this update skill monitoring.
     
    Gregoriak, Pipiolo and poetgooner repped this.
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #871 PuckVanHeel, Dec 13, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017



    A performance littered with a half dozen mistakes indeed, with no marking taking place outside the sights of the cameras. This '1970s football channel' actually is keen on showing those mistakes by players.

    The great and rested Pelé (or the by Dearman annointed "greatest football personality ever") never had them in conditions beneficial to the technical players, with the heat sapping tired defences.



    No overhit passes at all indeed, thus no comment.
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #872 PuckVanHeel, Dec 13, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
    Some more examples that I remembered from dissections and discussions with Jaweirdo (also quoting some more appraising ones, for balance):

    There are some more examples. Pelé played on Puma Kings.

    Either way, this is Pelé, and the case to think Pelé is the 'best ever' is strong. But Pelé aside (which I use above as a sort of 'least likely' case), often false equivalence (and beyond) is applied. No doubt about that.
     
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Nice idea to do this Dearman. I need to catch up though, after Puck alerted me to the thread (I can forget to look in Players and Legends now, with no most recent thread listed on the main page!).

    Some differences I have, which I already posted about elsewhere:
    - I give Albert a 9 vs Brazil in 1966....but ok, maybe you rate to a tougher standard in general.
    - I make Moore the MOTM vs Germany in the 1966 Final (officially it was Ball), and Charlton probably in the semi but his goals are significant in that decision. For a match he played very very well in that tournament, you could look at the Mexico game on Footballia/net if you didn't see it already (you said you saw 4 England games - so did I I think in full now, but they can be different ones of course).
    - Probably I make Beckenbauer MOTM in the semi-final vs USSR, as I rate his display in 9/10 territory too myself, but I watched his full performance but not the full game (due to YouTube of course)!
    - I felt Sandor Kocsis generally showed good ball control vs England in 1953, but I'd recommend the semi-final away leg vs Hamburg in the 1961 European Cup, where he is generally impeccable in that aspect I'd say, and also scores a great header.
     
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    To start to come back to this and give my MOTM verdicts where I can:
    (I do see the logic behind quite a few choices you make actually):
    From top to bottom....
    Hidegkuti
    Didn't see in full (from highlights/reports I wonder whether Schiaffino is an option too though)
    Pele, Didi
    Pele
    Didn't see in full
    Di Stefano, Puskas
    Didn't complete watching in full but Coluna seems a good option indeed
    Agree Garrincha probably (don't think I watched whole match from start to finish)
    Agree Garrincha
    Maybe Amarildo? (not sure on this one - Garrincha I felt had one very good half and one not so good but maybe could be a contender still indeed)
    Probably agree Suarez (saw his whole game but not literally the whole game as yet)
    Maybe Mazzola?
    Agree Beckenbauer
    Scirea possibly (but Conti is a good call)
    Tigana I think (but Platini a decent call)
    Probably agree either Maradona or Burrachaga

    The ones I might consider 9.5 for being actually I think both Di Stefano and Puskas in the 1960 EC Final. Maybe Pele vs France but perhaps doubtful and maybe I over-estimated him even slightly (hence leaving Didi as option for MOTM too). I'm not sure I ever thought of a rating for Hidegkuti vs England though for example and it might not be too far away, and I'd need to go back and check exactly what I thought of Tigana vs Spain also.

    I remembered now that aside from Charlton, probably Banks in goal stood out as a possible choice for MOTM in the England vs Portugal 1966 game when I watched that (and made the videos for Charlton/Eusebio).
     
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Oh, sorry, I see now you did watch Hamburg vs Barcelona 1961. As suggested, I make Kocsis MOTM personally, with minimum 8 out of 10 I think.

    For European Cup Final 1962, although on the losing side I possibly choose Puskas. For 1963 could be Rivera yes for me too although maybe I'm not sure. For 1964 I am sure that I agree on Mazzola.
     

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