World Cup Qualifiers: Italy vs Sweden (play-off)

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by forza_azzurri, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. thinredline10

    thinredline10 Member+

    Juventus
    Apr 2, 2017
    Berna had 12 goals and 6 assists playing for Fiorentina last year... not amazing... but pretty good for a young player on not a great team. Definately enough for a bench role at least on the National Team.
     
  2. krado33

    krado33 Member+

    May 23, 2014
    Club:
    AS Roma
    You could add in Eder, Candreva, Parolo, Immobile? as well. Pointless to be picking players who'll be passed their peak for 2022. If it means picking benchwarmers or Serie B players, I don't really care. Iceland and Sweden are making World Cups with Serie C tier players.

    And if one senior player has to stay around, my vote would be Chiellini.
     
  3. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I wouldn't say that.

    The current under 21 cycle ends in June 2019 so those players worthy of it will not be promoted to the Azzurri until September 2019.

    I expect most of the players called up this season to be called up until June 2019.
     
  4. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    perhaps..but the national team has to take precedent over the u21...(wishful thinking)

    plus we could see other players integrated from the last u21 team that ended last summer:
    -Benassi, Berardi, Caldara, Barreca, Conti, Gagliardini
     
  5. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Italy rarely uses their Under 21’s to form the nucleus of the national team. I think they used a few from the 1986 team at Italia 90 and again from the Olympic team in 2004 but don’t remember than many others. They use some players but they are usually only a few.
     
  6. romanista8910

    romanista8910 Member+

    May 7, 2010
    Roma
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I would give both my kidneys away just for a chance of that being true. Bernardeshi has potential to be a very very good player but on the flip side he also has the potential to not live anywhere up to the hype. Comparing him to those generational "fuoriclasse" players is like comparing a steak from saltbae's restaurant to taco bell ground beef.
     
  7. romanista8910

    romanista8910 Member+

    May 7, 2010
    Roma
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    A few of them might be but not many.
     
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  8. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    If you can promote 4 or 5 from each 2-year under 21 cycle that is still a good return.

    Part of the problem - unique to Italy I'm afraid - is that some players do more than one under 21 cycle which is unhelpful, even if the under 21 championship is very good for the development of young players.
     
  9. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    What are you expecting? for fans to be at the ground in tears whilst watching their team? 1 week later!
     
  10. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    lol. he is a great player is he? when? when has he had one outstanding season or even a very very good season? he has potential, huge? I don't know. all I know is he is an amazing player according to retarded journos, but has never demonstrated it on the pitch. how can ventura play him when he has like 200 minutes under his belt this season?

    I mean seriously, great player? guess it does take much to be considered so these days.
     
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  11. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #1711 falvo, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
    Not sure. Brazilians would kill themselves. Italians as a general rule, care more about their clubs than the national team though...
     
  12. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    It is an interesting theory, though I'm calling bollocks. reason being, how did Europe produce Van Basten, Baggio, Vieri, I could on. I doubt these players grew up in the conditions Wenger speaks of that creates a killer instinct. what is his theory for world soccer generally producing players of considerably lower standard that 20 years ago? defenders today are garbage. Bonucci and Chielini are considered 2 of the greatest on the planet, they are not even on par with the average defenders of Serie A in the 80s/90s.

    Did they kill themselves after getting thrashed 7-1 at home in the world cup? that is worse than failing to qualify for the world cup when it was entirely predictable long ago due to the dumbass on the bench.

    Today Sarri said he doesn't think there are too many foreigners, this coming from a coach who only has 2 Italians in the team and makes Tonelli wipe his arse instead of playing football. Tonelli is better than Chiriches, yet it is the Romanian who is due to play again in the champs league this week. If there are hardly any Italian defenders in Serie A, how can there be "not too many foreigners"? what happens when there are zero Italian defenders? we didn't fail against Sweden because of foreigners, but our standard has dropped because of them. this needs to be addressed asap.
    Iaquinta and Barone were in that squad, some of these guys could certainly have been in that squad no issues.
    Those are good stats, but he was never that good when I saw him and lets not forget, that wasn't the season that got him in to the euro squad. Someone wants certain players in the Italy squad for personal interests and favours. only some players have to earn that place, hopefeully that all changes now and only the best and inform get called up. none of this "Donnarumma is Buffons heir" bullshit, earn it on the pitch, not by media attention. this is why we keep failing in the last 10 years.
     
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  13. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I remember reading some did but I can't remember if it was after the 7-1 loss or not. You know, as a fan of Italy, I'd rather get eliminated from the WC altogether than to lose a game by that scoreline. At home nonetheless....
     
  14. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    This I agree with. wouldn't want to lose 7-1 at home in the world cup.
     
  15. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #1715 falvo, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
    A lot of people gave Iaquinta much slack but he was a very hot prospect at a young age. I remember living in Italy when he played for the Under 21's and all the announcers went on and on about how he was from Cutro/Crotone, Calabria and how good he would be. I think he lost it sometime around 2009 when he was doing cocaine , got in trouble with some mafia ties or maybe a little bit of both .....

    If this team had someone who could score a goal like this, we could very well be on our way to Russia.

     
  16. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    His name is Immobile. Iaquinta was a runner in the same style. The difference is that this version of gli Azzurri did not have an Andrea Pirlo who casually sticks his foot out to steal the ball and then places it perfectly for Iaquinta to chase it.
     
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  17. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Great seeing the old guys rambling on about Ventura and Tavecchio.

     
  18. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    With all due respect... Iaquinta hustled a lot more than Immobile in his day
     
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  19. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Iaquinta - di Natale
    Pirlo

    Nice trio after much more glorified Vieri - Inzaghi, Totti - Del Piero. Upper three also suffered because of these below. Typical, in one decade, too many great attackers and fantasista players (fast and mobile di Vaio, interesting Nicolo Amoruso, energy of Marco Del Vecchio, now it's a drought compared with that period.

    Remembered that Mark Iuliano wasn't in A Team often, he is much better than Bonucci.
     
  20. thinredline10

    thinredline10 Member+

    Juventus
    Apr 2, 2017
    Well it would probaly be Perin, but he cant ever stay healthy. I dont really have a problem with Donna in the sticks because its good experience for him in the meanwhile. Until someone else makes a case, I think Donna is good because of his size, experience, and the upside.

    A halfway competent keeper at 16 will become very good by age 21... which he will be at the next world cup. I say play Donnarumma unless Perin comes back and maintains health and finds form.
    I imagine Gigi will be hired and payed as a consultant during National team training to help him along.

    How great would it be if Gigi became a coach and we got to see him singing on camera the national anthem from the sidelines with the rest of the squad and coaches? It the Federation is serious about reform and finding success, they should pay him whatever he wants to bring Donna up to speed and whatever other keeper emerges.
     
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  21. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    933085727721746432 is not a valid tweet id


    "we didn't have the talent"
     
  22. soji22

    soji22 Member+

    Juventus FC
    France
    Feb 8, 2004
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I think the generation of European strikers you mentioned was more skilful and intuitive than the current generation. I think that there is merit to the argument that coming from tough economic conditions drives players to greatness. Pele and Maradona, generally regarded as the best players of the last century, came from working class/poor backgrounds. We live in a very strange era. We're fortunate to witness first-hand the extraordinary talents of Messi and Ronaldo. Every other contemporary player seems distinctly average compared to those two. Talent was more evenly spread in previous eras. It's as if the football gods spent a little more time on Messi and Ronaldo than everybody else. To your point, the quality of defending has gone down tremendously from the days of Maldini, Baresi, Cannavaro, etc... Defense these days is more reactive than proactive. Also, there's been this shift towards ball-playing, balletic defenders. To my mind, defending was never meant to be esthetic.
     
  23. thinredline10

    thinredline10 Member+

    Juventus
    Apr 2, 2017
    #1723 thinredline10, Nov 21, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
    It almost makes me wonder if Ventura and Tavechio betted against Italy and made a ton of money gambling.

    There was no reason to not run a 433 and Insigne should have always been on the field. Give Ciro a half and Belotti the other half... bring in Berna for Candreva in relief and start Insigne in the center of both games.

    The next coach must run a 433, there is an abundance of wingers in Insigne, El Shaarawry, Berna, Candreva( until a young guy steps up), Berardi ( if he ever plays again) Orsolini.


    What I love about Orsolini is the guy has a non stop engine, he is always looking hungry and never stops, his finishing on one touch volleys is quite good for his age as well.

    Alternatively, we could run a 2-1-3-4 with Insigne slotting at a CAM and throw Belotti and Ciro up top. I dunno how Lorenzo would do in the middle of the field, if they gave him freedom to run around tho, it could work out because he has a tendency to be able to move around the pitch when he has the ball. So him receiving the ball could see him cutting outside instead of inside, Ciro seems to thrive on easy service and Belotti could provide an aerial option for chips or short crosses.

    I expect this team to play a lot of hoof ball and crosses from the option until a cohesive and consitant midfield is formed.

    But a third midfielder must emerge to partner with Jorginho and Verratti... I wonder who that is going to be. It really should be a box to box player with a penchant for defense.
     
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  24. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
     
  25. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I think for the next two years, providing he's healthy and the right manager is put in place to bring in the youth, Marchisio should be that guy. I've said it often enough that you can't just promote the U21 team to the mens level and expect instant results, but we're going to get requests from many national teams for friendlies coming up to the World Cup tournament and regardless of the impact on the ranking system, it's the perfect time to begin the turnover. I wouldn't call any of the old guard save for Marchisio. Even Bonuccio should stay in Milan.
     

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