World Cup Lloyd?

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by McSkillz, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    UCLA Bruins
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So does she get fit and get her behind going during the World Cup? I know a lot of people put her off cause she's past her prime and all that but i think she has one more impact or goal in this WorldCup anyone agree?
     
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  2. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, I definitely agree. She's clutch in big games and big moments.
    And the younger players, it seems, need some of that kind of leadership.
     
  3. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    I wish we could move on, but I'm not sure we can. Thinking out loud for Ellis:

    "I've got my 23, now counting Lloyd, 24 - who am I dropping? What will that cost me?"

    "My plan is to sub Lloyd in the last 15-20 minutes of each group match, if possible, so she's primed to score a 'McSkillz Impact Goal' in a knockout match. Starting Lloyd in any match is the furthest thing from my mind. Will she willingly accept the limited role I have in mind for her?"

    My guess is that the answers favor Lloyd's inclusion ...
     
  4. jjmack

    jjmack Member

    Mar 20, 2015
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Lloyd should be starting instead of Morgan in my opinion. She is just better and has more skill. If not for Morgan then Lavelle. Morgan is useless against teams that bunker.
     
  5. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmm, I seem to remember Morgan scoring the only goal in the Sweden game at the Olympics.
     
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  6. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course Lloyd is going to be on the squad. That's been obvious.

    Further, having watched Lloyd play in the NWSL last year, notwithstanding she played for Sky Blue, she remains a very good player. She's tough and physical, too, which is something this team needs.
     
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  7. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I could be mistaken but Lloyd seems like she is in better shape now than she has been over the past few years. She's older than most of the players she'll play against but she seems like she's been working hard. She also has a ton of experience and, as has been mentioned, leadership. The team seems to need another leader. I think that pinoe is probably the strongest leader/personality on the team right now. Tobin Heath is my fave on the team but I don't feel that her personality or leadership is as strong as pinoe's and Lloyd's.

    The team needs Lloyd and I think that Ellis realizes it. Lloyd is sensible enough to accept whatever role she needs to fill and won't be childish enough to sulk if she's in a reduced role. Another plus is that she isn't a head case. When her game is off she doesn't seem to perseverate on it to the point that she continues to be affected and things stay bad or get worse.
     
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  8. jackdoggy

    jackdoggy Member

    May 16, 2014
    Big D
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This summer, Carli will be channeling her "Inner Akers".
    Big Match Big Time Player.
    For those who get in her way........Kyrie eleison anima tua
     
  9. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #9 Cliveworshipper, Apr 20, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
    Memory is a funny thing.

    I remember Morgan got her pk blocked in the shootout and Lloyd made hers.

    And they each scored 2 goals in the tournament otherwise.
     
  10. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was responding to Morgan's effectiveness against bunkering defenses. Morgan scored the only goal in regulation time against Sweden. Kicks from the mark don't say much of anything about a player against a bunker. And I personally made no comment on Lloyd who has obviously proven her ability to score in big moments.
     
    TimB4Last repped this.
  11. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    Yep. Run of play is vastly different from PKs. I played keeper many many many years ago and if I had been converted to a field player and played forward for every minute of every game my "goals per game" would have been south of one. However I was the best PK taker on the team and often was brought forward to take important PKs.

    I actually think that a PK goal should be credited to the player that drew the PK not the player that scored what should be virtually automatic but often is not because of incompetence of the shooter.

    As far as Lloyd goes: I think I would rather have her on the bench as an available sub late or as a starter that is set to play only one half than many of the players that are on the squad for that reason or others that do not involve/expect extensive playing time.

    If we are really looking for a bunker breaker we need to find a player that can, and will, hit a shot with real power on goal from distance. (20-25 yards) That player is not Lloyd or any player we are currently touting as being on the roster for the WWC. This is a lack that we have that comes from the "possession" game that is so popular world wide. Possession is great but possession does not break a good bunker, unless there is luck involved.

    At this point I want Lloyd on the roster for the obvious advantages over many others but she is NOT the bunker breaker we seem to believe we need.
     
  12. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    Lloyd and Press are the "forwards" capable of shooting with power from a distance and they are more than capable of it. Mewis and Horan can as well so I'm not sure why you are saying we don't have players that can do that.
     
  13. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    I say that because of the part of the post that you must have missed. I said, "hit a shot with real power on goal from distance." You seem to have missed the "on goal" part. Press' shots, and the others, have such a low rate of actually hitting the goal that they might as well not shoot.

    That has always been a weakness of US teams and this team in particular team has little ability to score from distance.

    It "can" be overcome with extreme accuracy, like Mia Hamm had, but that does not exist at this time in the US squad either.

    This team's only real scoring comes from getting quite close but they are pretty good at that. The problem is that when a good team bunkers there are just too many legs in the way when you get close or try to dribble through the middle.

    Of course we do score from distance against the bad CONCACAF teams with poor keepers we play too often but we do not do so whenever we face a good team that pulls back and bunkers or even plays deep defense.
     
  14. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #14 Cliveworshipper, Apr 20, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
    Automatic? No.

    The conversion rate in World cups is 71.5%. The rate in te UEFA championships has hovered around 75% with a small sample size.

    The major EURO leagues hover between 73% and 81% , la Liga being the worst of these.

    The BPL has the highest rate at 80.5 %, but then the Brits are notorious for having crappy keepers.
    In 2016 the BPL hit at a 70% rate, with foreign players scoring at a 66% rate.


    In 2017, Messi hit at 82%, Ronaldo hit at 85%, and only Fabinho of Monaco was perfect, hitting 8/8 for the season.
     
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  15. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    I said it should be not that it was. The majority (vast majority) of PK failures are the result of poor kicks not anything the keepers do. In fact I believe that keepers would make more saves if they reacted and did not guess as it seems there are more scores right down the middle than there are good saves that result from a guess.

    There is about an area of 50 square feet in the upper corners that if a player hits it with just reasonable power it cannot be saved. The fact that so many players miss and get saved just shows that players do not practice the PK correctly and/or enough. Practicing PKs is boring and that is not what players want. The percentage of scoring on a PK should north of 95%, the fact that it is not is simply a lack of correct practice causing poor execution.

    BTW: Practice does NOT make perfect. Practice makes permanent. It is only perfect practice that makes perfect.
     
  16. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Haha.

    Apparently you have never been a keeper.
     
  17. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    Just 10 years as a player and I coached keepers and teams for 40. (There was some overlap.) I have been in soccer for over 45 years and my observations are just that observations. Most of my "saved" PKs were because the kicker hit the ball poorly or right at me. I did have to move a bit but, if the kick was well taken it scored.

    I once had a string of 18 straight saved or missed PKs and in only one of those was the save at all challenging. Kickers either missed the goal or hit the ball so poorly that the average 10 year old could have stopped it. You train for that one out of 20 that might be a game changer and for what happens during play everything else is just up to the gods.
     
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  18. thegamesthatrate

    Jan 9, 2007
    Since Ellis put Lloyd on the team, one probably has to concede that Ellis realizes Lloyd benefits the team.

    Before 2015 I was not a Carli Lloyd fan. I'm still not, in fact. But I have to give credit where credit is due. Gold-medal winning goal in the 2008 Olympics. Both goals in the gold medal game in 2012. Six goals in knockout round play in the 2015 WWC. First (and to date only) hat track in a WWC final. Goal scored from the furthest distance in any WC final, man or woman. One of only nine players (and two women [the other was Wambach in 2011]) to score in each of the quarters, semis and finals of a WC (Colaussi in '34, Ghiggia in '50, Pele in '58, Haller in '66, Jairzinho in '70, Neeskens in '74 and Rossi in 82 in the men's tournament, in case you wondered).

    And, Lloyd has matured. I have it from an impeccable source that through 2007 her ego and sense of entitlement were out of control. That same source credits here with growing up by 2015. She can still be a useful cog.

    If I were listing an all-time starting American 11, she might not make it. If I had to put an American 11 on the pitch to win one match, her track record suggests I would be a fool to leave her on the bench.
     
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