Charlie Davis, Holden, Twellman seem to have been left out of the previous generation. Now we just need to forsee who will be left out of this generation.
Over the aggregate of the past 16 years, the US has had a major tournament record just as strong as Croatia's. But the Croatia player pool of the past 4 years has been much stronger than that of the US. Whether that's due to a golden generation or to systemic developments remains to be seen.
It's certainly the most interesting group. 1990 and 1994 were basically an amalgam of the best and brightest college graduate players, dual nationals who'd been enduring the slog from the mid-eighties onward. They were a tightknit group that largely came up together and that's why they were actually able to put together six quality performances in 7 World Cup games across those two tournaments despite basically being only a step above '17 U-20 World Cup feel good story/in game punching bag Vanuatu. 1998: A hodgepodge of the 1990/1994 vets with young starlets mixed in, Captain for life ejected at the last moment, and chemistry wrecking Regis (through no fault of his own) added at the last second. 2002: Mix of the 1994-1998 vets and the 1999 U-17 starlets, and some MLS finds. Basically a group excised of the '98 malcontents (who mostly retired after the tournament, or petered out over the following two years) but utilizing the best glue guys and talents of the '94-'98 squads, with a sprinkling of stars bubbling up out of the development program. The best grouping ever, a superb mix of quality leadership and solidity, creativity and speed in the midfield, and some stars just begininng to touch their possibilities (McBride, Donovan, Beasley, O'Brien etc). 2006: The last gasp of the vets who played in '02 and '98, and early vet stages for the '02 debutantes. A group of death, a horrific opening match, and a ghastly ref decision sabotaged them. 2010: A blend of the '99, '01, '03, '05 and '07 US U-17 and U-'20 teams. What it lacked most were the veteran leaders like Reyna from '98-'06, McBride etc. 2014: The last gasp of the Donovan generation mixed in with the house of horrors that was youth development from 1990-1995 beginning to have an impact. If you look at the teams, they are all blends of two distinct groupings except for the 1990-1994 squads. In this sense our '22 squad if we qualify is unlike any other qualifying squad other than the '90-'94 grouping, and even they don't match because '90-'94 were basically guys that grew up riding the same busses, playing together in big USMNT camps year round because we had no domestic league. Our '22 team will be largely built around players from around the country that came up via home grown MLS development programs and the US Development program, and scouted kids that Europe grabbed the first second they could like Pulisic and McKennie. It is REALLY promising if they develop as it will be the first time in 30 years we will have a team that's almost entirely from the same specific era having played on the same youth teams together coming up. Super interesting.
Nice post. The bolded I think is something that gets lost in the MLS vs. Europe shuffle, though it's understandable because that division was an important factor in our qualifying failure. This generation of young players has mostly been developed domestically (CCV, Robinson are two examples who grew up in England, I'm sure there are a few more). Many of them have gone to Europe to play professionally. For years as teenagers, they all have remained connected through USYNT camps. What's more, many of them have formed strong bonds outside of soccer, and they hang out/go to events when they can. It's no coincidence that our young players are being bought in groups by European teams. They form their own support networks and go through their careers together, each trying to reach the pinnacle of the senior NT. It's really neat to see. EDIT: As an example, Weah, Durkin, Carleton, and Sargent have all played together on YNT's. When Carleton played against Durkin, he noted how special it was to play against a long-time teammate in the US setup. Weah and Sargent are overseas, while Durkin and Carleton are in MLS, but I don't get the sense that there's an MLS vs. Europe division.
Think what's interesting is that many of the new group of domestically produced players have come up through MLS academies.
It will probably help that CCV and Robinson speak English as their first language, so you won't end up with half the locker room speaking German (though I still think Brooks and maybe Johnson have a part to play).
And when you see videos and tweets of those guys hanging out together? Part of it is just a new era in terms of mass communication, if we'd had twitter, Instagram, youtube etc 20 years ago, maybe we would have seen similar things w/the kids who came out of the 1981-1987 era, but there is a sense of camaraderie that you get form the guys, and seeing CCV, and some domestics hanging out and teasing each other, the familiarity is obvious, and its special, particularly when you consider a guy like CCV at least seemed like a guy who had entirely been developed overseas, and yet he's bonded quite well with teammates in the program since at least 2014 if not earlier. This could be huge in putting to bed the horrible taste of 2011-2017, and '17 in particular. It reminds me SO SO much of when Arena took over in late '98 and it felt like in the space of 3 months he'd fumigated the whole Fed, and it smelled fresh, bright and new, and then we went out and beat Germany twice in like 3 months just to put a bow on the transition to a grand new era, and in just the space of a year (June 1998 to June 1999) and for Arena, about 7 months, what had seemed like a dire, catastrophic situation, was totally reborn. These kids coming up together, it just feels real, real similar to that vibe, but so so so much better in terms of the possibilities, ceiling and the future. Thank God for that. Can you imagine if after 2017 we were looking at a developmental situation like 2008-2013? Thank God things at least on some level, are looking up.
I can't compare it, because I was 4 when Arena took over, didn't know we had a professional soccer league in the US until I was 11, and I wasn't a soccer fan till 2009, my sophomore year of HS. My frame of reference basically starts with the 2009 Confederations Cup (the final vs. Brazil was the first NT game that I watched in any capacity), so by my eyes we've fallen quite a bit, but perhaps not from the loftiest perches of 2002.
I wouldn't lump Twellman in with the other two, his game just never really translated to the international level even when he was healthy (basically he was Wondo 1.0).
Ever watched the '02 tournament games? You definitely should, it was glorious. Crazy waking up at 2am/not going to sleep at all, to see us just thrash Dark Horse Portugal in the first half hour of that game, then hold on after some horrific errors gave Portugal a chance in the 2nd half (corner clearance goes straight to Beto who doesn't even have to move his foot to score, basically just ricochets off of his foot and into the net, 3-1, then with like what 20 minutes left, howitzer own goal from Agoos (who has horror show tournament) makes it 3-2, sweat it out but win, then open the scoring with wondrous O'Brien to Mathis goal against S. Korea. It was just an amazing tournament to watch and to see us come out, and take the game to Germany, should've won, got hosed by the refs, and German media, and world media rips Germany and serenades our heroic effort in defeat, just a wonderful tournament to watch. The '09 Confed Cup was totally bizarre, opened up but getting our heads kicked in by Brazil and Italy (including Rossi, in a rare moment where the New Jersey kid was healthy, kills us too), then trounce an Egypt side that supposedly was partying with hookers, and played the game hung over, get the exact scoreline we need in that game (3-0 us) and in the Brazil game (3-0 Brazil over Italy) to somehow leap over Italy and Egypt to steal 2nd in one of the weirdest group stage match day 3's you'll ever see. Then Beat Spain, then stun Brazil only to choke it all away after giving up that killer (and surprisingly common in soccer) early 2nd half goal to Brazil before they came back with another two to totally break our hearts. Some crazy history you missed out on. Even '06 has the heroic Italy game, and the comeback against Ghana thwarted, again, by an idiotic call by the refs (although we were outplayed). Avoid watching our U-20 World Cup quarterfinals against Argentina in '03, Austria in '07, and in '15 and '17. Just the stuff of heartbreaks, especially the first two mentioned, both of which definitely should've been won.
Watching the supposedly supremely talented (in relation to the USMNT) modric, rakitic, perisic and the rest of Croatia get ABSOLUTLEY MAULED (currently 6-0 to Spain)---- I had to BUMP this thread....and REITERATE my original thesis....Croatia is NOT BETTER THAN THE USMNT. If they can make the WC final...(with a lot of luck...just like croatia had in Russia) the USA can too!!!!! Does anyone really think brooks, miazga mckennie pulisic etc would put up anywhere near as poor a performance against Spain as croatia currently is???
Croatia did have one of the easiest roads to the final in recent memory. But they did play well, probably overachieving relative to their individual talent.
yeah....they played well. but everyone on this thread was adamant that croatia and usmnt are in different leagues...which made no sense to me....based on watching both teams play. the USMNT has finished in a better final position in many of the most recent world cups than croatia has. i stick by my original - and highly attacked - position. If croatia can make a WC final...the USA - especially at home - can too. period.
When I read threads like this I am reminded of the chicken soup recipe that starts: First steal a chicken. In order to make a World Cup final match the US must first make the World Cup finals. Right now the US is about fourth best in CONCACAF behind Mexico, Costa Rica, and Jamaica. I know that is not reflected in FIFA's rankings but it is what I see and I might even move Honduras and Canada and Panama up level with the US based on current form. We, the US, are simply not playing well at all and it does not help that we are effectively playing headless. If qualification began today it is unlikely we would qualify as we are just too soft. I do not mean playing dirty but rather I mean playing with grit and real effort. Our players, lead by the nothing that is at the top, are just going through the motions and we could not beat teams well below us in world rankings no matter what country they are from. This can change but I see nothing from either any of the players or the USSF that indicates that any effort toward change is forthcoming. While friendlies are not generally important they have gained importance for the US as it is in such matches were we may learn to play with grit again. I guess we will just have to watch, wait and endure until someone or several someones step up and show true leadership. When that happens then the US will again move up the CONCACAF table and we will again become a probable qualifier and that will give us a chance to make advances at the World Cup.
What have you been smoking? Jamaica? Just really starts off a terrible post on a horrible baseline of blindness. It's not "reflected in rankings", it's not reflected in play, it's not reflected in relative skill levels, it's not reflected in historical results. It's not reflected in anything, because it's not true. That's an easy one. We're not playing well, and I'd like a coach too, but once again, the chicken little routine rears its ugly head based on Friendly matches...
Were they really speaking German, or is that just a rumor. Any half thinking human would think it would be kinda disrespectful to speak a foreign language on a National Team that others wouldn't understand. Not really a solid foundation of true team atmosphere if you have a few on the side of the group whispering German. Especially since all the Germ-Americans were pretty fluent in English.
The quotes of mine that you pulled are still true even after Croatia lost one lopsided competitive match in Spain. Croatia made the World Cup Final because it has world class talent that the U.S. doesn't. You do need that type of talent to reach a World Cup Final. We don't know if the U.S. will have Modric/Perisic/Rakitic/Brozovic type players in 2026. What Croatia did in 2018 is not - based on what we know about its current squad vs. the hypothetical future U.S. team - proof the U.S. can reach the 2026 WC Final. It's awfully convenient for you to claim the U.S. would never lose a match to Spain like that right now when the U.S. only plays competitive matches against the likes of Spain every four years at best. Instead, it plays friendlies against sleepwalking European and South American teams and competitive matches against CONCACAF competition over and over. How would we know if the current U.S. team or any incarnation would do if it had to play real matches against legit competition more often than once in a blue moon? The U.S. just failed to qualify for the World Cup when it only needed to outpace Panama or Honduras in the hex. Did you see Honduras in its playoff against Australia? Did you see Panama at the World Cup? Between finishing behind those two, getting outscored 6-0 over two matches against Costa Rica, and losing a must-win match to Trinidad & Tobago, the U.S. has really cast a shadow over its quality recently. But, by all means, point to one match Croatia lost to one of the most talented and best teams in the world as proof they aren't ahead of the USMNT. And, of course, write off Croatia's World Cup performances as pure luck and a true sign from the gods that the U.S. is sure to have an equally world class midfield in 2026 if it fuels your daydreams about the WC Final the U.S. is definitely going to reach soon.
Wow! LOL. But seriously, the US missing out was more like France missing out in 1994, a combination of freakish unlikely events. The US beat both Honduras and Panama by several goals if you aggregate home and away head to head qualifying results. It was not as if the US was not good enough. And, the new generation of US players is likely to be their best ever. So, who knows what they might achieve.
Croatia believed their own hype and today tried to kick Spain's behind, coming out to play blow by blow against them. Bad idea.
those "world class players" on Croatia didnt help them from getting DUSTED today. USA ended spain's 36 match unbeaten run in 2009 confed cup....it's not like the USMNT hasnt beaten top teams before...they have RECENTLY beaten germany in germany, netherlands in netherlands, italy in italy etc BOTTOMLINE: no one can convince me that Croatia is on another level than the USMNT...to me they are roughly equal countries in terms of soccer....both are not top 8 seeded teams in a world cup but in the next tier of teams that have a good chance of advancing from a 4 team group. there is nothing controversial about that. IN MY OPINION: the players that croatia have at their disposal are not better than the USA. I would take the current USMNT player pool over Croatia's (granted the USMNT has a semi-competent coach for a change)...and MOST IMPORTANTLY I will bet you any amount of money you want that the USMNT will have a better finish in the 2022 world cup than croatia!!!