World Cup Final: France vs Croatia, July 15 [R]

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018 - Knockout Rounds' started by Edwardinho, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    If you think it's that fixed, why would you watch it ?
     
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  2. jeanmarc

    jeanmarc Member

    Aug 7, 2009
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Good thing I don't need to when I'm right :ROFLMAO:

    Yeah, don't you see the Croatian legs hitting Griezmann as he falls? Do you think the ref wouldn't whistle that?

    They didn't give him the best angles at first. The VAR checking by the ref in this game didn't take any longer than any other VAR checking during the competition.
    The only difference is he left then came back to check the screen again. That can be for a number of reasons, probably he saw that they gave him another angle he hadn't seen before. That doesn't mean at all that he hadn't made a decision yet. You're just assuming about something you know nothing about.
     
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  3. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    #928 tudobem62014, Jul 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
    Same reason why people watch WWF and movies it’s entertainment. The best is when the fix is in and the fixers don’t fix it enough... Portugal sub Eder scoring... bet they never thought to pay that guy off lol. Watch the games again and count the uncalled fouls as well as fouls to stop the fast break that don’t receive yellows... the highest totals are the semi finalists. Lovren should of gotten a bunch more yellows. To be fair Platini got screwed when the German goal keeper almost killed his teammate and no foul/ card was given. I’d start cheating to win after that too.

    Old players have all came out and said 66, 78, 94, 98, 02 were fixed in smalls ways to give an advantage not just to the winners, but to the hosts as well. Cmon 18’s draw wasn’t fixed? hehe. Everyone knows it was fixed. Blatter already said they get the people who were made superstars by the World Cup to pick the balls and they heat the balls at different temps so they know which ones to pick. That’s just the way it is.

    It’s still great entertainment
    And as long as it’s not in Europe the best team normally wins... Korea-Japan 02, South Africa 10, Brazil 14. The biggest fixes are normally in Europe outside of Europe they don’t normally have the influence to do it.

    Arab countries have lots of British investment. I expect England and USA to do good here.
     
  4. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Of course he wouldn't whistle when someone clearly dived.
     
  5. Califorza

    Califorza New Member

    Juventus
    Italy
    Jul 8, 2018
    Every WC host is given a weak group and the maximum days rest between games throughout the tournament. That should be staring you all in the face...
     
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  6. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Not sure if serious. You think CR7 took a bribe to throw the 2016 Final? He could buy and sell every one of these so-called bribers. Ridiculous.

    As for the draw and telling the selectors about the "heated balls", etc., if that was happening they wouldn't use Maradona as one of the selectors. You think they could trust him to keep his mouth shut? Stoned or otherwise, he can't be relied upon to keep that big a secret.

    Platini and the others might like to do the things you are alleging, but it's not really conceivable. Too much of a risk. Too many people would have to know about it, and it would eventually get out.
     
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  7. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    It’s not money.
    Probably just threatened his family like they did to Cruyff
     
  8. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I’m done with my conspiracy theories. I guess it was obvious who was gonna win the final anyways. My friend who hates soccer and doesn’t understand it at all just texted me “I saw like 11 black dudes in blue against 11 white guys wearing a pinic tablecloth and was like, this is going to be a massacre” I probably just have Croatia blinders on. As group winners, my tst let me watch them over 4 games. I ended up assimilating.

    Bijelo-crvena polja hrvatska na dresu sjete me da ja volim te.
    Igrajte za nju, Našu voljenu, nek' jače kuca to srce vatreno.
     
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  9. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #934 Gilbertsson, Jul 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
    I noticed something interesting, Final 2002.
    3:10 minute in this video. Brazilian first goal, wasn't this also foul against German player? If this ended as foul against German player....Rivaldo couldn't make that crucial shot, Ronaldo wouldn't be on the spot...it would be still 0-0...and who knows what could happen later..
    Obviously, this German player didn't dive...but no one talked ever about it, because it was Brazil, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho...you can watch every final match: EURO, World Cup, Copa America, probably plenty of wrong decisions. I am not implying, is this title deserved or not...strong teams also went out earlier: Spain, Italy, Portugal, France ended in group stage with injured Zidane, Mexico again in the first stage knock-out phase...Germany wasn't especially convincing team...so Brazil had the clean road through.


    We can watch for weeks every possible moment during the goals.
    To conclude this, Croatian penalty was correct decision at the end. Even Croatian official broadcast confirmed this, same as official commentator of HRT TV station. If Pitana avoided to give the penalty, it would be also commented as something negative. But, the dive of Griezmann was also evident, the foul should not happen. After all, too many similar situation happen every week in football...top players like to dive, get the chance to score. Such things were under critical tone before 2 decades, but diving is normal today.

    Matthaus and Moller had serious incidents, because Moller used diving in one match.


    Today, good diving is a nice virtue among footballers, clever, sneaky performance, who can act better? Nothing else. Before, this was negative characteristic.:D
    Personally, I don't have anything against diving...but I don't like offside goals, goals after evident fouls, missed penalties after wrestling tackles.
    We all know that there are many personal interests in football, it's not all that we see...football was/is not some game between the knights, with strong moral values and honourable approaches.:rolleyes:
    Most important thing is who will win and does he have acceptable game style at the end. Even with VAR, we will see many errors, but this World Cup was among those who were mostly fair, unless if something became arranged earlier, but on the court we saw acceptable things.

    At World Cups, Croatia had much bigger damage, against Brazil in WC 2014. Japanese referee.
    Also, at EURO's, Germany - Croatia EURO 1996; France - Croatia EURO 2004; Spain - Croatia EURO 2012.
    This was accepted as normal. Probably, every team would have 5-6 similar situations.

    I usually like to avoid conspiracy theories, but many things are strange in sports overall.
    For example, if football clubs, who are on top, lose at home / away against weaker teams, or if they collect draws against such teams...of course, it's matter of questioning, especially in 10 last rounds of every championship.
     
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  10. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #935 Gilbertsson, Jul 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
    Brazil also gets easier groups...CONCACAF, ASIA, Australia...only in South Africa they had stronger group, Portugal, Ivory Coast.

    1986 - Brazil, Spain, Algeria, Northern Ireland...very easy group for Brazil...it's not even Republic of Ireland.:D There are no those strong triangles in Brazilian group.

    1990 - Brazil, Costa Rica, Sweden, Scotland - another weaker group.

    1994 - Brazil, Sweden, Cameroon, Russia.

    1998 - Brazil, Norway, Morocco, Scotland

    2002 - Brazil, Turkey, Costa Rica, China. Brazil was in Pot A..Pot B had Denmark, England, Portugal, but they end with Turkey...Pot C had Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay, Saudi Arabia, China...so all South American teams are avoided? Or it was some rule, that South Americans can't play against each other in the group?
    Pot D had Mexico, Senegal, solid USA, Nigeria, but they get Costa Rica.

    2006 - Brazil, Croatia, Japan, Australia - again no triangle.

    So, when you get easier group, it's much smoother to plan and play the knock out stage, but when you meet strong European team complicated Mexico from CONCACAF, things get uglier.:D And those pot matching were always interesting to watch...papers under the level of table.:rolleyes:

    Tudobem has a point in such things. It's not everything with negativity, but some aspects can go under discussion. Only, we need to re-watch endless situations in the last few decades.:D
     
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  11. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I watched football much more often to fill the boring moments, nothing to do in the evening...still busy with obligations during the day...summer TV schemes are really weak...so World Cup and EURO's are interesting...but I don't follow football in some fanatical way...where I need to yell every 5 minutes, curse or insult someone. As an child, I started to follow football because of the value of sport...after that I noticed a lot of politics, interests, arranged matches...before I thought, who would gift the victory to some other club, rival, national team...but it's all normal, if teams do such things.
     
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  12. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #937 Gilbertsson, Jul 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
    Hosting teams always end far through the tournament, it's not only in football, it's also evident in handball, water polo and many other sports.

    World Cup in handball 2015 was held in Qatar.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_World_Men's_Handball_Championship

    Qatar ended second.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_national_handball_team

    Observe previous and later World Cup results...nothing similar had happened. Don't observe Asian Championship, since only South Korea knows how to play handball.

    We can always ask numerous questions:
    1. Are injured players really injured in important matches?
    2. Are penalties in general or in the penalty shoot-out really missed or something else happened?
    3. Are draws, who will face each other, always fair? Club, national team level?
    4. The question of irrational yellow, red cards, strange penalty decisions.

    We can also ask, was the hand of Abel Xavier intentional? Curious, again France became included. Trezeguet protested, but he will play with the hand after 4 years against Croatia.

     
  13. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Obrigado
     
  14. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan




    Fred dives, obviously it's popular to do this against Croatia.:D
    Just another day in the office, business, income and pension funds.
     
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  15. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    De nada. Parabens por tus argumentos.
    El futebol perde muito por esas coisas.
    Gente tontos pensa, que futebol es una batalha honesta.
     
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  16. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Absolutely not a foul. Body to body contact from the side and both players charge into each other. Ronaldo gets the ball cleanly.
     
  17. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    EVERytime I see tite I see the comedian Russell Peters

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2x7qs8
     
  18. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #943 Gilbertsson, Jul 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
    What about the hand of Abel Xavier? Is he punched in the hand, was it ball towards the hand, or hand towards the ball? I remember that match, referee was Sramka, from Slovakia, they literally spit on him, after this decision, yelling and surround system of Portugal was normal thing.
    Personally, I feel sorry for this Portuguese generation...hand of Xavier at EURO 2000, damaged in match against South Korea in 2002. Bunker victories of Greece at EURO 2004...this is how Golden Generation becomes destroyed. They weren't at World Cup 1998, who knows what happened in those qualifications.
    They got out with 1 point of difference from additional qualifications.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_–_UEFA_Group_9
    Bunker teams: Ukraine, N. Ireland...undefeated against strong Germany from that period.
    Ukraine got Croatia in additional qualifications.:D
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA_play-off)
    It seems strange, why Abel Xavier remained on the ground, like he knew that he did something bad...
    Also, this video above, Germany - Brazil. German player had the ball, and player came from behind, I saw many referee decisions who would favour German player, in club, or other NT matches. Brazilian player was more energetic and stronger in that duel.
    How to observe every possible goal with VAR...was it foul somewhere before or not...this isn't possible at all. They need to rewind often 1-2 minutes before the goal. If 4 goals happen, that's almost 8 minutes of VAR observing. Not practical at all.:D
     
  19. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    #944 tudobem62014, Jul 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
    So hard to balance entertainment and “correctness”... morality and justice. With VAR they could make the right call 90-95% of the time. But they chose not to do so citing entertainment devaluation (stoppage in play)... thereby devaluing the correctness of the game. I get it it would slow down the game... “slowness” is a reason many baseball followers cite as the major problem why the MLB has slowly lost its ground to the NFL and NBA.

    But does it really slow the game down? Other sports show that video review does not have much effect on the game’s flow. Rugby and NFL being the examples. However almost all other sports have lots of natural stops in their games ... football and rugby have natural stops in play between plays. So It’s hard to compare rugby and the NFL to soccer.

    Why can’t they just have a ref on the field that is helped by the VAR system on ALL plays. It would stop most of the diving. Clearly the first goal of the World Cup final was the result of play acting of Cheatzmann. VAR all the time is better than VAR some of the time. It’s infuriating to watch the championship game be so easily won by cheating. Cheatzmann gamed the system by diving on a nonreviewable spot. Then did the fortnite dance as if to say I cheated and won, but it was within the rules of the game.

    Using VAR on only selected plays combined with a ref on the field is like people having a meter stick and choosing to still measure things by the size of their feet. They could use this universal and very accurate measuring tool and get the result right EVERytime, but they instead choose to Calculate length by this very personalized nonuniversal measuring unit. Imagine trying to build a bunch of houses using the size of the purchaser’s foot as your measuring unit. It’s doable, but it would be so much easier and more precise/ accurate using a meter stick. Having one set of referees in the VAR room who were all trained the same way would also limit subjective discrepancies between refs. (I get the counterargument and acknowledge this takes away the humaness of the game... we’d be essentially robots, but very accurate ones lol)

    Why doesn’t FIFA want to be right all the time? We could have a game where the refereeing is correct around 95% of the time if they just use VAR to help the referee on ALL plays.

    FIFA took forever to adopt goal line technology... but it has made football so much better. No more arguments over if the ball went over the line.

    The only reason I can see them not adopting VAR on all plays is FIFA still want to control outcomes of games. Not just for gambling reasons, but because people in power just have this problem. They want to decide everything. Influence everything. To me it’s like FIFA is saying just wait... we will do this whole 100% correct thing, but let us pass around the prestige of winning the World Cup around first, before it loses its prestige like the Olympics and there’s no social benefit to winning it. Italian league ur up in 2006. Spanish league ur up in 2010. German league ur up in 2014. French league ur up in 2018. English league ur up in 2022 (yes I know most of the French play in the English league anyways... I’m talking about England... u know what what I’m getting at). Dutch, American, Brazilian, Mexican, Argentinean, Japanese, leagues forget you... you’re not a major league.... besides this is about Europe! By 2026 it will be in the hands of the Americans who will try to make it 100% correct at the same time somehow make The Patriots the champions... ;)

    And congrats to Griezmann who finally won something more than the Europa League after being screwed in 2014 with that superfluous extra 5-7 minutes of play in the Champions League Final.

    Something tells me England will win World Cup 2022 against Brazil in the final
     
  20. Califorza

    Califorza New Member

    Juventus
    Italy
    Jul 8, 2018
    Soccer is the best sport for replays. There is plenty of time to review the dive while the players are lining up the wall. The game can be stopped at any deadball.

    Each game should be reviewed, and players should receive post game yellow cards for diving and faking like they were hit in the face.
     
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  21. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    Lol. Your friend is funny, kind of racist, or reverse racist, but funny.

    France scored 4 goals in the final, the most since when, 1970? Matching the 4 goals by Brasil '70, the team of the century? People just need to accept the results. France was the best team at this World Cup, and by a fair margin.
     
  22. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    His family is from Oakland, CA. These are the things they say... which from the Trevor Noah headlines is racist in France.

    I agree they were the best overall team. Just they took it to another level with Griezmann’s dive... lot of things going their own way. Wasn’t a very gentleman way to win. But I guess neither was Rivaldo’s corner dive in 2002. Or maturazzi’s trash talking Zidane for the head butt in 2006. I guess I just got to accept mind games (gamesmanship) are part of the game. I grew up being taught that was not right is the problem. Gotta teach the kids reality at soccer camp his year... otherwise they’ll just be eaten by the wolves.

    First day:

    A winner’s mentality:

    Anything to win

    1. Dive for free kicks with video examples with Griezmann
    2. Smooth talking the ref and trashing talking the opposing team’s coaches with Germany
    3. How to foul without being carded with examples of Lovren
    4. Throwing and kicking balls away in extra time with Pogba and Mbappe
    5. Accentuating the foul with Neymar
    6. Isolating your coach with Argentina
    7. Hurting the opposing team’s best player and getting away with it with Sergio Ramos
    8. Ignoring game breaking fouls if the heavily sponsored team might concede a Free kick or penalty with most of the FIFA refs
     
  23. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    Lol. You should watch the Panama-Costa Rica qualifier, the game that qualified Panama, for the ultimate in gamesmanship and unfairness, including the winning "goal" that never crossed the line and bad sportsmanship by ballboys.
     
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  24. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Lol I’m gonna check that out I’ve only seen the winning goal
     
  25. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Rivaldo's theatrics in 02 was so irrelevant to the game. 93rd minute and the Turkish guy was already on a yellow card. It's incredible how people distort history.
     

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