World Cup 2018 Referees

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, as I mentioned in another thread, confirmation of the 2014 referees came on January 15th that year. I expected a similar date for an announcement this time around, but it appears I could have been very wrong.

    The person behind the Twitter handle "ArbitroInternacional", who is very plugged in and hasn't been wrong in the past, is tweeting that referees were informed (or are being informed) today about their confirmed participation in the World Cup. But they are not being told if they are referees, VARs, reserves or some combination of those categories. He so far he confirms Bascunan, Cakir and Ramos as certainly going. If he's correct with this information, I have to believe we'll see an official list from FIFA soon. But it's worth watching his account until we do:

    https://twitter.com/ArbitroInteBlog
     
  2. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't they still need to publicly confirm that VAR will be used (which we know it will be) before they release the list of refs, ARs, and VARs?
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That train already left the station. FIFA confirmed VR would be used at the WC awhile ago and the IFAB, I believe, "extended the experiment" (or something like that) into early 2019.
     
  4. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh. My mistake. I kept seeing articles about Infantino wanting it for the WC, but nothing about it being confirmed.
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    AI's feed is now saying 36 referees will be named. Last time we had 25 referees and 7 reserves. So that would indicate very strongly that there will only be a few dedicated VARs and/or the number of reserves will be cut back.
     
  6. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Could the VARs be the reserves?
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There will be some overlap in duties, but I don't think many people who have observed how things have gone so far expect this.

    You have some very high-level experienced officials, like Makkelie, Zwayer, Orsato, Turpin, Vigliano and even Marrufo, who almost certainly won't go to the World Cup as referees but have come to specialize in the VAR position. If you bring a highly-trained guy like Makkelie to the World Cup, you're doing so to sit him behind a video screen and not to sit between the benches.

    In the last few tournaments, the reserves have been more political choices or perhaps referees that just missed out on selection. There are going to be a few referees that FIFA wants to attend the World Cup for experience, but does not yet trust in the VAR role because they haven't been adequately trained.

    Remember also that FIFA uses a VAR1, VAR2 and AVAR. So that's another added layer where more officials are assigned to a match and indicates a need for the duties to overlap. But I definitely expect there to be a dedicated VAR group that regularly fills the VAR1 role.
     
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  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's the list right now:

    AFC
    Fahad AL MIRDASI (KSA)
    Alireza FAGHANI (IRN)
    Ravshan IRMATOV (UZB)
    Mohammed Abdulla MOHAMED (UAE)
    Ryuji SATO (JPN)
    Nawaf Abdulla SHUKRALLA (BHR)

    CAF
    Mehdi ABID CHAREF (ALG)
    Malang DIEDHIOU (SEN)
    Bakary Papa GASSAMA (GAM)
    Ghead GRISHA (EGY)
    Janny SIKAZWE (ZAM)
    Weyesa Bamlak TESSEMA (ETH)

    CONCACAF
    Joel AGUILAR (SLV)
    Mark W. GEIGER (USA)
    Jair MARRUFO (USA)
    Ricardo MONTERO (CRC)
    John PITTI (PAN)
    Cesar Arturo RAMOS PALAZUELOS (MEX)

    CONMEBOL
    Julio BASCUÑAN (CHI)
    Enrique CACERES (PAR)
    Andres CUNHA (URU)
    Nestor PITANA (ARG)
    Sandro RICCI (BRA)
    Wilmar ROLDAN (COL)

    OFC
    Matthew CONGER (NZL)
    Norbert HAUATA (TAH)

    UEFA
    Felix BRYCH (GER)
    Cüneyt CAKIR (TUR)
    Sergey KARASEV (RUS)
    Bjorn KUIPERS (NED)
    Szymon MARCINIAK (POL)
    Antonio Miguel MATEU LAHOZ (ESP)
    Milorad MAZIC (SRB)
    Gianluca ROCCHI (ITA)
    Damir SKOMINA (SVN)
    Clement TURPIN (FRA)
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only thing confusing from this list is that the UEFA section has not grown outside what you would expect it to be (9-10 was the expected number). All the other confederations have expanded numbers. I've got to believe that this list is missing some dedicated VARs (because Makkelie, Zwayer and Orsato being left out is unexpected), but this is what we have to work with so far.

    All referees on this list will allegedly be attending a clinic November 25-29th. If that's true, Marruo needs to be replaced on the leg 2 MLS Cup Conference finals.

    Given the size of this list, there's nothing really shocking here. The only big surprise is Turpin gets in over Eriksson. Other than that, Garcia v Ramos was always a 50/50 tossup and Ramos won. I guess you could add that two Americans but not two Mexicans is also something we wouldn't have expected several months ago, but Marrufo clearly played himself into the mix and probably has extra value as a VAR (over Garcia) because he's naturally bilingual.

    No word, yet, on ARs.
     
  10. seattlebeach

    seattlebeach Member

    AFC Richmond
    May 11, 2015
    Not Seattle, Not Beach
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's actually still 36 on that site. For some reason it says "7" for AFC and CAF, but only 6 referees listed.

    The only discrepancy appears to be Lopez for Marrufo. Yikes. Another site has the same list as the Twitter account (the one with Marrufo) but there does seem to be confusion here. Sounds like FIFA was going to announce the official list on December 1st, after the clinic ends. We'll have to see now if this forces its hand or if FIFA waits until December 1st to confirm everything, as apparently was planned.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Best guess right now--the Marrufo/Lopez question aside--is that this list is referees + fourth officials. Some of these officials will fill VAR functions at times. And some will ONLY be fourth officials. But nobody who is NOT on this list will be a referee or fourth. That's the only thing that makes any sense given the size of the list and the personnel listed.

    Dedicated VARs--officials who would ONLY do VAR duties--are not yet named and/or don't have to attend the same clinic at the end of this month. There are at least a half dozen names that fit that category.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    So Kassai not going again? Pretty bizarre that a referee who did a World Cup semifinal and was eligible for two successive World Cups doesn't get to go.

    Also, we know it's been pretty certain for a while, but still pretty shocking to not have an English referee at the World Cup.

    Looks like Clattenburg threw away 60 years of English refereeing at the World Cup so he could be an "coach" on youaretheref.com.
     
  15. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    Pretty sure the massive Saudi paycheck had a bit more to do with it.
     
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  16. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Also, Turpin over Kassai, Eriksson and even Oliver/Taylor is pretty much pure politics. I know he's comes on strong recently with some big assignments in the CL and in international assignments like the Olympics, but I don't think he has the body of work compared to those guys on the list.
     
  17. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    Guess it's essentially the same thing a lot of coaches have to choose from...the player with lots of experience, or the player that's the best at that moment.
     
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  18. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Interesting that of the 8 referees who worked the EURO WC play-offs, only Hategan, the referee on the NI/Switz first leg (the
    one with the dodgy PK) is not included in this list. Perhaps that decision was the killer for him, but maybe he wasn't in
    contention at all. But if he had an outside chance, that decision must have blown it for him.

    PH
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kassai has had a lot of problems domestically and has not been at his best in the UCL either. It’s a bit weird, but I don’t think he was ever seriously under consideration in the past few months.

    The first nine choices for UEFA were obvious, if you concede Karasev was going (which I always did). The final choice seemed like it was Eriksson v Turpin v Hategan. Given Eriksson didn’t get a playoff, perhaps he was eliminated in October. Than means that Hategan possibly paid for his penalty award. Maybe Turpin would have beat him anyway, but in a straight race with Turpin, the incorrect penalty probably was the difference.

    Now, Turpin would have been a VAR anyway. So it will be interesting to see—like with Marrufo—whether this assignment is a split VAR/4O role or if he’s an actual on field official. Either Turpin or Karasev is a support referee, likely. We will have to wait awhile to see who is who.

    Will also be interesting to see if Eriksson or Kassai get a VAR spot. I’d bet against it. But it’s possible.
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hategan was up against Turpin. Turpin won. He might have won without the penalty. But the penalty certainly helped.

    Skomina was kept off the playoffs because he was a certainty and there was no need to risk a big mistake like in the 2013 playoffs.
     
  21. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    I don't doubt what you are saying here but it does seem a bit odd.
    So they didn't risk Skomina, but were quite happy to risk the other 8?
    Unless some were certainties anyway even if they made a big mistake.

    An aside re Kassai: I am not surprised he has been left off. I never thought he should be there anyway and it was
    just politics and personal favoritism that got him there previously. We have seen plenty of that in the past and I
    am glad to see it disappearing if only in this case. Perhaps it is due to the removal of certain
    high level FIFA executives. I also have my doubts about Irmatov, but he could just be the best of that group anyway.

    PH
     
  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think so, yes.

    Skomina failed his final test last time when there was a big offside mistake from his AR. If you know Skomina is in, let’s say, your top 3 or 4, why give him a final test and dredge up those memories—and risk a big mistake—when you don’t need to? More to the point, UEFA needed to test Hategan and there were only 8 assignments to give out. Inherently, since 10 referees were going, a couple “safe” referees (or referees UEFA wanted to be safe) wouldn’t work a playoff. Note that Karasev, as a home Russian referee who had to get picked, also wasn’t exposed to the dangers of the playoffs.


    I think this is right. Hategan was the only one on the border and, unfortunately, he fell short. Note that Mateu Lahoz still got picked despite the Italy match—his body of work had already secured his spot.

    What is the implication here? I don’t think there’s been a powerful Hungarian at any level that has really boosted Kassai. I agree he’s been overrated at times and when he’s off, it’s obvious. But he’s also been quite good at times, too. To be fair, he’s still in the top 15 in UEFA. Just not the top 10.

    I think most observers here will always have their quite deserved doubts about Irmatov and Aguilar.
     
  23. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    #23 Pierre Head, Nov 18, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
    It seemed that Puhl a WC FInal referee may have had some influence just like Palotai did for him when the latter was on the Referees' Committee. Also I had heard from a few WC referees in previous years that some high level FIFA people expressed preferences for some referees.
    Seeing all the crooked dealings that have been going on for years at that level, nothing really surprises me now about the goings-on at FIFA. Overall very disturbing operation. The trial underway in NYC is apparently under the RICO criteria, which were set up to dismantle the mafia crime system.
    Absolutely unbelievable that so many crooks were running the organization and the rest of us thinking it was all an honorable system.

    Agreed, another who's selection makes you wonder why.

    PH
     
  24. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Lopez vs Marrufo
    I wonder if the discrepancy on the two list was simply that before the last CONCACAF match day, Lopez was in as R, and Marrufo as VAR. Lopez' muffed goal eliminated him, so it came down to Marrufo or Garcia for that spot, and Marrufo won (he's a better ref than Garcia, and probably has more of the CONCACAF admin supporting him than Garcia). That would explain the contradictory reports and make the most sense of the data. Although it is pure speculation.
     
  25. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Irmatov will be the referee in the 2nd leg of the AFC Champions League Final between Urawa Red Diamonds and Al-Hilal. The first leg was handled by Jordanian Adham Makhadmeh, who at only 30 years of age might be the next big thing from Asia.

    This is the fifth AFC Champions League Final match of Irmatov (1 first leg, 3 second legs, 1 in 2011 when AFC decided to have a one-match Final).
     

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