This could fall with the VAR thread, but it has big implications for the World Cup Referee selection: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/22/var-2018-world-cup Not surprisingly, IFAB is backing the VAR experiment (I'm surprised how forcefully they appear to be doing so, but that's a discussion for another time). Anyway, the latest rumor/reporting is that Collina is going to focus on the training of VARs for the World Cup, similar to how Webb did it with PRO. The really interesting tidbit, which stems first from Italian reporting, is that FIFA is going to mostly select VARs from countries/leagues where they have been trained. None of this is confirmed, but apparently Orsato, Valeri and Irrati have all tentatively been called as VARs from Italy while Soares Dias and Lopes Martin have the same designation from Portugal. This would be a big development, because referees like Valeri, Irrati and Lopes Martin have never been on the World Cup radar (they don't even do big UEFA matches), so it would demonstrate FIFA is prioritizing domestic-level VAR experience over international refereeing experience. This is all still the rumor stage and it's unclear if all of these officials will be brought in for the actual tournament, or if there will be a larger list that gets used for training purposes and then is eventually culled. Either way, it will have some very interesting implications on assigning at the tournament if countries with domestic-level VAR are over-represented. Also, if this is, indeed, the route FIFA is going, it's a damn good thing USSF keeps a full complement of 10 international male referees, so that FIFA has a bunch of American officials to choose from. Solid planning out of Chicago on that one. In all seriousness, if this is the path that FIFA goes down, Gantar and Fischer could seriously be in the mix for a WC appointment; Elfath and Unkel, who had fewer assignments as VARs, might also have a chance. But it all depends on how true this rumor is and how big of a pool of VARs FIFA feels it will need. As far as team conflicts go, having Italy, the Netherlands, and the United States all not qualify for the World Cup is pretty convenient when you realize that three of the most extensive VAR trials have taken place in those countries.
Pretty sure Alan Kelly is not eligible. Probably had to give up his FIFA badge from Ireland when he came to the US to start working for PRO and MLS.
Definitely had to! Same with a couple of others who came here with FIFA badges from another country. For one thing US citizenship is required, aside from any other considerations. PH
To be fair, the guidelines for obtaining FIFA certification in the US state that you must be a "U.S. Citizen or permanent resident." But who knows? Has a FIFA from another country ever come to the US, dropped their white badge, and moved back up to FIFA again?
It's not happening, everyone. I initially thought the post was a well-placed bit of subtle trolling, disguised as naivety. If it's not that, then I repeat, it's not happening. Five posts in this thread that are even tangentially related to Alan Kelly going to the World Cup are about six too many.
This is not true. US citizenship is required. PR will suffice for National badge though I don't know of any. PH
https://ussoccer.app.box.com/s/p8mwwmo8ocj5qpmc6knnn50smj0kbe68/file/178586441053 Because I'm 1) a huge refereeing nerd, and 2) petty, here's your link.
That link does not work. I am not a referee nerd, although I do know quite a bit about it, and am not petty, but do like to be sure that correct information is posted. In any event US citizenship is required. I personally know some high level referees who were permanent residents and in line to be nominated for the FIFA list but were not citizens and did not want to become citizens for various reasons, so were unable to be nominated. I don't know anyone who has been on any of the US FIFA lists who was not or is not a US citizen either native-born or naturalized. I am sure some others will be aware of this also. How long have you been a huge refereeing nerd? PH
This screenshot should work. I have no doubt that what you are saying re: potential FIFAs not getting a spot on the list because of this is true. Nonetheless, the current rules are as such. I am also aware of and have met/been mentored by Nationals who could have gotten their FIFA badges, but for one reason or another didn't. Don't write me off because of this, but I've been a "huge refereeing nerd" since about a year after my initial certification in 2015.
Well, it certainly looks that there has been a change from what has been the case for decades previously. It is interesting to consider why this change was made, unless it is an error. PH
Didn’t mean to go off track. I just thought Kelly really deserves a WC game. Has some of the best man Management skills in the world.
I can see now that you aren't trolling and appear to be sincere. Since we're already over six messages on this topic, I'll just simply say that you need to watch more soccer worldwide. Kelly is an above average MLS referee. He was an average to below average UEFA referee when you consider the top group that gets to do UCL and EL matches (a group where some above average referees don't even get considered for the World Cup). He has above average man management skills for MLS. He does not have some of the best man management skills in the world.
I don't think he meant it insulting to you at all. As someone who does watch world football, I can attest to the fact that, as a whole, MOST MLS referees would be hard pressed to fit into the "average" UEFA spot on the list of officials. At least for me, the longer I have watched the easier it is to see the disparity between the referees in America vs. Europe. I think it really all comes down to the simple fact that everything is just better there. Better system, better expectations, better competition, etc.
Don't take it personally. A few years ago, I would watch a lot more games in Europe outside of the Premier League. The difference between the #20 ref in Europe and the #20 ref in MLS is staggering. IMO, Geiger is probably the only person good enough for the elite list in UEFA.
It absolutely wasn't meant as insulting or personal. That said, I'd argue that no one swing too far in the other direction of "oh my God, everything is so perfect in Europe!" We have world-class ARs. We have some referees who could fit in nicely in some top European leagues. And there are some bad practices or subpar referees in several top European leagues.
Given the right opportunity at the right point in their careers, I bet Toledo and Stott could have performed satisfactorily at that level; they probably wouldn't have been doing the UCL Final, but they could have fit in the #15-#25 slots in Europe pretty easily, if not better. Remember that Kelly was, while in Ireland, just a few rungs short of the Elite list. I'd say Toledo and Stott, in their primes, were several steps ahead of Kelly at his best. Obviously Marrufo would also have to be considered, as he performs quite well at FIFA events; I just don't think he'd be quite the same fit in the UEFA culture, but I could be wrong. And this is nowhere close to comparing apples to apples. Stott has evolved a certain way because he's a known commodity in MLS. Same sort of goes for Toledo. Marrufo and Geiger have developed differently because their focus has been on the FIFA game. Every one of these referees would have developed differently if they were actually from a European country and worked their way up through one of those domestic leagues and then into UEFA competitions. So imagining how MLS referees would fare in UEFA is sort of a double hypothetical.
Thanks for the info. Having met Geiger, I can see why he is a great referee. His knowledge of the Laws of the Game is unbelievably thorough and he went really in-depth on every call he showed in my upgrade class.
I think Chapman and Elfath have potential. Marrufo shows glimpses and then does some head scratching type stuff. Villarreal could work towards the elite. however, I think almost all our international assistant referees are good enough for the elite list or to be doing those matches. For whatever reason here in the states we groom some really solid AR's. IMO. I agree 100% with Massachusetts. We see here even in the states how much different referees are having come up in different metros, cities, states, etc. or even referees brought up doing mostly youth matches, DA, adult amateur, etc. there is absolutely no way to project where those guys would play in compared to the rest of the other FIFA's in the Elite list.
My impression is that in the US we use far more ARs at lower levels than in many places. For example, I gather in England the norm at lower levels is a single assigned R with club lines. That makes more opportunities to AR earlier and learn to see the game as an AR. I suspect that is part of the reason we seem to create skilled and technically adept ARs.
From my understanding, most Sunday pub leagues don't have ARs. Sometimes I'm amazed that we use $90 worth of referees on a U11 rec game. It's great for our community, but it could help cut the costs at the rec level.
Competing with AYSO may make that tough. At least in many (most?) places, AYSO will have the volunteers to have three person teams beginning at 10U. While I agree that at 10U (especially with the BOL limiting OS decision points) that isn't necessary, from an AYSO perspective it makes absolute sense: get volunteers in the door while the games are easy and get them experience on the easier games--it's a lot more intimidating to start volunteering to be a ref at 14U. So it may be tough for leagues/clubs to charge more than AYSO and then have solo refs doing the games rather than the team they see in AYSO. (I'm sure it varies a lot by location, but around here I have fairly consistently heard from families that do both that they get better referees (on average) in AYSO than they do in their club games. (Maybe when my last child heads to college I'll think about crossing over to do both.)
You are absolutely right. In the rec league near me, it’s solos until U13. And since the U13 rec games are for the most part pretty easy, it attracts a lot of young kids who don’t want to be in the center. Therefore, we have some pretty good ARs.