World Cup 2018 Referees

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seems like FIFA put out some sort of statement asserting the list, as relayed on Friday, isn't final. Arbitro Internactional has replied. English translation below:

     
  2. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
    Any news regarding the new FIFA referees and assistant referees for the US and Canada? It seems that the decisions were finalized last Friday at the FIFA Ref Com meeting and the confirmations have been sent this week to the national associations.
     
  3. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    All I know is that Toledo is coming off the list for sure. I don't believe anyone is going to be added. Maybe Saghafi?

    Others on this forum are more informed than me.
     
  4. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well Chapman is highly regarded obviously, but he's older than he looks and would have gotten it years ago if it was coming.

    Saghafi will probably get there in another year or two.

    What about Sibiga? I don't know his age so he might be beyond the usual timeframe, too.
     
  5. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    It is often a well-kept secret until the lists are actually published.

    PH
     
  6. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
    Some European federations and even Uganda published the information, so there are no restrictions from FIFA.
    France: http://arbitrezvous.blogspot.ca/2017/10/fff-cfa-dta-classement-des-arbitres-et.html
    Norway : https://www.fotball.no/dommer/toppdommer/20172/her-er-norges-fifa-dommere-2018/
    Uganda: https://www.kawowo.com/2017/11/22/fifa-referees-2018-oloya-nabadda-attain-prestigious-badges/
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The actual nominations from USSF have leaked pretty regularly in recent years. Given there has been at least one error by the USSF Referee Committee between the nomination (August or September) and the confirmation (November or December) that caused someone who thought they were going to be a FIFA to not be one, people with information about the nominations are rightfully skittish about divulging what they know.
     
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  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #33 MassachusettsRef, Nov 23, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
    Back to the issue at hand, the best information I can gather is as follows (this is piecing a lot of different stuff together, so apologize if there are errors):

    1) Everyone on the named list above is going to the UAE for a seminar and fitness test that takes place right before the CWC.

    2) If a referee attends that clinic and passes the fitness test, they will be called for World Cup 2018.

    3) FIFA has an idea about who will be referees and who will be support referees from that list. All referees on this list have the potential to serve in the VAR role in addition to being a referee and/or fourth official (remember that there will likely be 3 VARs assigned for each match--2 of whom will be referees). But FIFA has not made that determination clear--not even with the referees (though some are obvious). That decision may be announced in early December.

    4) ARs have not yet been named. Not sure when that will come, but it will also involve a fitness test.

    5) Even though FIFA's president publicly "confirmed" VAR will be used back in April, the IFAB has to ratify that decision. So, due to that technicality (and, I would presume, the practicality that VARs shouldn't have to pass a fitness test), officials who will be VAR-only are not yet named and not invited to the UAE clinic. That means VAR specialists like Vigliano, Zwayer, Makkelie and Orsato will be named later.

    All of this makes the Marrufo appointment particularly fascinating--perhaps the most fascinating appointment of all (so not just from a USA-centric perspective). First, it means the United States is the only country with two named referees (Netherlands, Italy, Argentina and Germany--at minimum--will follow when their VARs are named); that alone is noteworthy. Second, it means Marrufo is not VAR-only, despite that seeming to be the position he was being trained for. You might guess that he's going as a support referee, meaning he'd only do fourth officials only. But most support referees are usually younger officials. Marrufo is age eligible for 2022, so if he is a support referee it could be a signal that he is the USA's potential candidate for Qatar and not Villarreal if Marrufo opts to carry on. It's incredible that Marrufo could be a candidate for four straight World Cups (though, ironically, he did not start the process for 2018 as a candidate until VAR became a thing). Third, because there are so many CONCACAF officials named here, it can't be a 50/50 split between referee and support. That would indicate Marrufo actually has a real chance of being a referee (like Rodriguez and Archundia were for Mexico).

    And that third point is important because it has other implications. If Marrufo is going as a referee, he needs to be part of a trio. And that could mean two more Americans as assistants. Rockwell and Frank Anderson went with him to the U17s, so you would think that would be his crew, but it now looks like Anderson replaced Morgante in Geiger's crew (though if that was a one-game experiment, maybe Morgante still has a chance). So is there another American AR in the mix now or would FIFA give Marrufo a mixed crew? If Marrufo is only a support referee, then he probably goes as a duo, which likely/possibly means Rockwell goes as a reserve AR (like Boria did in 2014). The bottom line is that there are now a lot of permutations for American officials at 2018 and they are not clear at all at the moment. The only thing that is clear is that MLS is the only league in the world with two named referees to the World Cup. Ever think you'd read that?
     
  9. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    All true! But I have known cases where it was so secretive that even a person who was being put on the list did not know until the list was formally announced, and so it came as a complete surprise. I am sure that the Committee members are expected to maintain the confidentiality and so are the administrators.
    Likewise, but obviously very upsetting, for people being removed. Sometimes those being removed never even received any kind of communication or thank you.

    PH
     
  10. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As noted in the MLS refereee for, Marrufo has been pulled from his playoff game in order to attend a pre-WC camp. That would seem to confirm what you're saying, especially if Geiger is at the same camp.
     
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's one thing for Arbitro Internacional or other online personalities to discuss the list. I didn't think I'd see PRO publishing the list before FIFA did. I'm actually pretty sure FIFA won't be happy with this if they notice, since they pushed back against Arbitro Internactional with a statement. The irony here is that PRO is either working off this thread or the original Twitter source:

    http://proreferees.com/2017/11/23/two-pro-referees-selected-for-2018-fifa-world-cup/
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pure and very early speculation, but the Brazil v Switzerland match looks like the sort where team Geiger could be assigned and tested early.

    Think the opener is Pitana or Ricci.
     
  14. allan_park

    allan_park Member

    May 15, 2000
    There's nothing wrong with that logic, but that could apply to any number of games - is there a reason you think this is more likely?
    Personally, I'd think any of the four games the previous day (June 16th) would be even better possibilities for Geiger - each a competitive game in its own right, and with no CONCACAF interest in either group, so completely "neutral".
    While I don't think they should stretch confederation neutrality that far, they may as well avoid the Brazil-Switzerland game when it is in Costa Rica's group, when there are plenty of games of similar quality without that issue.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Peru v Denmark was the other one I circled in my head. If France plays up to expectations, Peru v Denmark might be the truest "go-through" match in the group stage on paper. So that's a big one.

    I guess I discounted both the France and Nigeria matches because he had France v Nigeria last time. Not that it went poorly, so maybe I discount it for no good reason. But that was my thought process. That leaves Argentina v Iceland as the other match. No particular reason I overlooked that one and admit it's possible.

    My thought process behind the Brazil match was that Geiger has good history with Brazil (U20 Final) and Switzerland is the type of UEFA team that I think he could handle very well. It's a marquee assignment, but not necessarily too risky of one.
     
  16. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    You brought up an interesting point. Has any referee done the same match-up more than once (possibly in different WCs)? I would guess the answer is no.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's an interesting point, but just to be clear I didn't mean to mistakenly imply France v Nigeria was a first round match this time. @allan_park suggested he could do either the France v Australia or Nigeria v Croatia match.

    Building off the point, though, Geiger did just have Peru in their penultimate WCQ. I wonder if that is a consideration at all.
     
  18. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I think Geiger has a really good shot at getting Croatia vs. Argentina. Also, Brazil vs. Switzerland and Brazil vs. Serbia are two that he would have a good shot to get.
     
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  19. allan_park

    allan_park Member

    May 15, 2000
    I think what this discussion shows is that the combination of Geiger's standing within FIFA right now, coupled with the failure of the US to qualify, means that he has a whole raft of opportunities open to him this time around. There are very few games where you would say he wouldn't be considered, apart from perhaps a big all-UEFA match-up, though I still wouldn't rule him entirely out of consideration there.

    Without meaning to put pressure on him, the way is clear for him to make an impact on a WC like no other US Referee has previously done.

    Both Esse and Brian Hall had decent World Cups, but neither had the chance to build on that by going to the next World Cup, as Geiger does here.
     
  20. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    All very true, but I would like to point out that Mark is not the first US referee to go to two World Cups. David Socha was at the 82 and 86 WCs, as well as the 84 Olympics, where he did one semi-final. Although he refereed just one match in each of the WCs, together with a few linesman appointments as was the system back then, in a way he blazed the trail for US referees to follow. Also significant here is the fact that he was native-born when the majority of the US FIFA list referees at the time were foreign-born naturalized citizens.

    PH
     
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  21. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Feel compelled to point out that in terms of possible assignments for Peru-Denmark, @MassachusettsRef is here offering a Geiger counter
     
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  22. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    In the past, it has been FIFA's "rule" that officials can not do any game involving a team from their own confederation, unless both teams are from their confederation, or any game in the same first round group with their country. Obviously, with the US not going, the second criteria doesn't apply and, as others have noted, that opens up the possibilities for the Americans even more. Of course, that approach can always be changed and I wouldn't expect there to be any announcement that something has changed.

    Don't discount the influence of having two Americans on the FIFA Referee Committee!
     

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