Women`s Friendly International Matches 2011 [R]

Discussion in 'Women's International' started by mcruic, Jan 4, 2011.

  1. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    o_O I don't know how you came to that conclusion. I thought my post was explaining the difficulties in utilising a true #10, within a international scene where a teams overall positional balance can be just as vital towards wining games, as a gifted creative individuals ability to take control proceedings.

    At no point do I say "France don't know how to create #10's":confused:, but instead attempt to highlight the probable issues as to why the female side of the French Fed can't yet effectively utilise their #10's to the same level of German or Japanese programs, who are also successfully producing highly talented #10's for the heart of their preferred styles of play too.

    Yes, we can all see that player for player France are as good as Germany and Japan, but the one major difference between these programs right now comes down to the difficult but rarely mentioned ability to formulate well balanced attacking and defensive scenarios, versus the better opponents possessing the tactical/physical tools to completely close everything down, or always keep the game stretched.

    So my opinion, this isn't an attack on French ability to create individuals good enough to play in the #10 role, but rather an observation of all the French wnt's displaying the same problem right now, by showcasing a systemic inability within their still developing women's program to fix the very thing that will likely take them to the next level in senior tournament football.
     
  2. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    LOL. I'm in the FIFA POTY thread arguing why Abily is the best player in the world right now, so don't be so quick to assume bias on my part towards Necib, because on this one you probably couldn't be any further from the truth ;).

    I personally see France or Lyon play, it's pretty evident, pretty quickly, that the demands of the international scene, are a lot tougher than simply playing all of your biggest and best names in their favourite positions.

    So as much as people want to :thumbsdown: on Bini, I think sometimes you can also miss the bigger picture too, which is that France have more important long term issues to solve, than the simplistic nature of always playing your best players in their favourite roles.

    I can understand why people want their star players, taking a staring roles more often, but as somebody who's seen the rise of the German and Japanese programs, I think we can also see similarities in current French selection dilemmas, that both Germany and Japan eventually overcame by sacrificing purely individual desires, for more team based cohesion instead.

    That's why I throw out the idea that maybe France having Necib and Abily in the same team, is probably a better long term option than having Abily orchestrating things on her own; similar to seeing Germany sacrifice Renate Lingor's favourite advanced creative role to obtain two world cups, and Japan sacrificing Sawa's favourite role to attain similar success for their national team too.
     
  3. Gromit06

    Gromit06 Member+

    Oct 22, 2012
    Nice
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    Yes, I agree :)
     
  4. mcruic

    mcruic Member

    Jun 26, 2004
    Scotland
    Club:
    Dundee United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Round up of last 10 days:

    20.10 USA 1-1 Germany
    20.10 France 2-2 England
    22.10 Cameroon 1-1 South Africa
    23.10 USA 2-2 Germany
    23.10 Sweden 3-0 Switzerland
    24.10 Netherlands 1-1 France


    Next up, 28.10 - Palestine v United Arab Emirates.

    That match a rare friendly match for West Asian women's teams. Was originally due to play today (27.10) but put back due to late arrival of UAE team in Bethlehem. UAE won the only other time these 2 met (4-2 at home in 2010).
     
  5. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    i disagree with you and gromit here. look how OL puts these two on the pitch together : nécib plays farther back than abily and serves as a plaque tournante. first pass goes to her, she brings it up to (but not necessarily into) the zone de verité and plays off to whoever looks most likely to bring some danger. she doesn't have to break into the box or get the assists herself. she's got amandine henry behind her and camille in front so she just stays between the lines to link the front and the back. but she's more than the water bearer... she's the washing machine. she turns balls won by the defense turn into attacking opportunities more swiftly than any other method i've seen. both the barca way and the stoke city way take 20 passes to create an opportunity. the louisa method takes two. and she makes them both look easy.

    without the danger of abily you can get what happened against england : two players making sure nécib can't get the ball or if she does, can't get her head up. that's when you can say she slows the game down!

    you'll say abily was in the england game, but not in the same role : she had too many other duties to be able to keep the flies off louisa. not even a thiney at the top of her game (and she's a long way from that) can pull that kind of attention from a defense.
     
  6. Katreus

    Katreus Member

    Jul 3, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    guignol If I've got this right, you think Louisa should be an 8 and Abily a modern 10 with the 3rd a 6 whereas Bini plays it with dual 6's* (because of Soubeyrand) and Louisa the 10?

    Batfink I think we're coming at it from two different angles. While I don't necessarily disagree that France has some long-term issues to work out (and that presumably they will eventually do so), I think they could be winning tournaments now even with these issues and that Bini's coaching has prevented them from doing so.
     
  7. debzy

    debzy Member+

    May 26, 2009
    paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    What you seems to don't understand is the fact that by sacrifiyng their best players position for a more balanced team, German and Japan won .......France didn't and probably will never......
    That is means that your theory simply doesn't work with France !
    By the way , Germany best player was Prinz and not Lingor , Germany built their team around Prinz and they won everything ......when they changed putting Grings in a more advanced role than Birgit,yes they won euro,the last easy euro, but they miserably failed their own world cup.....
    And for the N10's case IMHO you are wrong from head to toe.
     
  8. debzy

    debzy Member+

    May 26, 2009
    paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    guignol , Necib as a 8 could be a solution , but all depend on Abily playing in her favourite place the rest is less important.....after euro13 if Bini is not the coach anymore Henry will comeback and in my opinion the best midfield will be Henry ,Bussaglia ,Abily with Catala and Necib as first changed for Bussaglia and Abily as it should have been now.
     
  9. Gromit06

    Gromit06 Member+

    Oct 22, 2012
    Nice
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    Oh oh, I think I read Batfink much too quickly maybe and misunderstood completely what he meant...
    I'm personnally and totally convinced that Abily and Necib must play together in the same team (I'm talking here about NT). I see them as Platini and Giresse were in Hidalgo's team. Two #10 with one of the two a little more forward and scorer than the other : Platoche, obviously more than Gigi. Here, that would be Cam more than Louisa. With a number 8 just behind (Buss) and a pure 6 (defensive MF, Henry). The bad thing for me is to leave only two attackers because I grew up with the magic of 4-2-4 ;)
    So, the two attackers could be (with a systematic turnover within the matches) taken from Delie, Thiney, Le Sommer, Thomis and Tonazzi (for the Euro as Tonazzi is concerned, maybe not further since she will be 34 in 2015 and 35 in 2016).
    The fact to have only two attackers can be solved on the wings with very offensive back-wingers (Boulleau or Bompastor on the left, maybe Houara on the right since it seems hard for Franco to raise her play very high at international level. But can Houara or Soyer do it, I don't know. Another one ? Maybe in the coming years..).

    But, anyway, whatever the system, the more important - that what Mémé jaquet used to say and he was right - is the animation. And that Abily, Necib and Bussaglia at least are on the field together at the same time...
     
  10. newsouth

    newsouth Member

    Nov 20, 2010
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Watch their games closely vs top 5 teams. they have ONE striker in the box. i'm rolling over laughing, concerning this abily/necib debate. their mid-field is interchangeable. no matter who is where, they will still connect 9-12 passes to get the ball down the field and take a long range shot, if it is generated by their mid-fielders, which the top guardians in the world stop every time. if delie isn't on the receiving end, they LOOSE!

    abily/necib - 8 or 10 . :ROFLMAO:

    how about giving delie a fullbach or baby house? that's where france will see a gold or silver in a major tournament, not which one of those 800 mid-fielders they have does.

    france's mid-field problems? their u17 connects passes better the FC USWNT. :ROFLMAO:

    mid-field is the lesser of their problems.

    in the bronze game, once canada got rid of delie, the rest of that team couldn't figure out how to put the ball in the goal, but they were still making their great connecting and pretty passes and winning time of possession.

    frances's mid-field problems. :ROFLMAO:
     
  11. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    i just watched this very midfield hold the rest of a very lackluster (to be kind) team together and win 3-0 against what has been one of the toughest teams to beat in D1 this season. (guingamp)... and only didine had what you would call a "good game" based on what they've made us used too. camille didn't look good at all... for her...

    except for scoring twice.
     
  12. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Hmmm no. Prinz was the primary forward in both of Germany's WWC wining sides, with both teams also utilising the talents of their most gifted all round attacking mid (Lingor), in a significantly deeper role to the one she had excelled within at club level.

    Besides all that though, how can you highlight the French systems ability not to win as the primary factor behind claims of things being broke, if your just going to continuously ignore the more important factors of necessary, no, mandatory development time.

    Do you honestly think that Germany and Japan just emerged from relative obscurity, to instantly produce elite level international teams/WC winners? I'm sure you don't...:cautious:, but could probably do with a reminder that your girls recent issues are only the beginning of something good, and not the end.

    I mean look. On the back of Euro success, Germany saw a WC final defeat in 95', then a 3-2 quarter final exit versus the U.S. in 99', before eventually coming back in 03' to obtain a first WWC title, with a star that would eventually go on to be one of the sports great female players too.

    Then we see France, who only made a serious reintroduction on to the world stage... hmmm last year, having previously been a WC perennial non factor with a few limited/disappointing runs at the Euro championships. Hardly the credentials of a national program that's supposed to wining big games at it's first serious attempt; is it..?
     
  13. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Oh, I guess your right. France will always be a unique case that remains peerless in the productivity of it's world famous #10.
    head in sand.jpg ......:whistling:
     
  14. debzy

    debzy Member+

    May 26, 2009
    paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Batfink , for your knowledge Japan emerged from obscurity.......before to win wc11 and be finalist in og12 they'd done nothing particularly impressive....
    That's sound better ;)
     
  15. necron99

    necron99 Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Well they were 4th place in the 2008 Olympics.
     
  16. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Plus they were able to qualify for more of the top events than the old school French teams, which eventually helped them in being widely regarded as the best team within a always competitive AFC confederation by 08' too.

    All you had to do is watch any of their teams play during that three/four year gap before the 2011 WC, and it was already very evident that the system they had developed was better or just as good as any of the supposedly elite programs they previously struggled to beat.
     
  17. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    although it sounds like a copout i think describing positions and roles in terms of numbers is stenography. but your transcription i can live with.
     
  18. mcruic

    mcruic Member

    Jun 26, 2004
    Scotland
    Club:
    Dundee United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    Latest results:
    28.10 Palestine 2-4 United Arab Emirates
    09.11 Malta 2-0 Estonia

    Upcoming matches:
    11.11 Malta v Estonia
    25.11 Mauritius v Réunion
    28.11 USA v Ireland
    29.11 Germany v France
    01.12 USA v Ireland

    09.12-19.12 - São Paulo Tournament (Brazil, Denmark, Mexico, Portugal)
     
  19. jonny63

    jonny63 Member+

    Feb 17, 2005
    Norway
    Today

    Malta 2-0 Estonia
     
  20. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    other upcoming friendlies:

    24.11 Kuwait vs. Maldives
    25.11 Trinidad & Tobago vs. Philippines(in Fullerton, CA)??
    26.11 Kuwait vs. Maldives
     
  21. newsouth

    newsouth Member

    Nov 20, 2010
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That Viking's tournament is a mess. What happen to Canada, NZ and possibly France? They are replaced by Phil, T&T and Haiti. :rolleyes:

    If anything, they should have tried to add Mexico for some kind of attendance.
     
  22. usa3por2ft

    usa3por2ft Member

    Oct 15, 2002
    in exile
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sao Paulo Tournament

    9 December
    Brazil 4:0 Portugal
    Mexico 0:5 Denmark

    13 December
    Denmark 0:0 Portugal
    Brazil 1:2 Mexico
     
  23. Katreus

    Katreus Member

    Jul 3, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow. What happened there? How do you get pasted by Denmark and then beat Brazil? (Or other way around, paste one team, draw the next that just got pasted?) I wonder if part of it is to do with familiarity with opponents or at least their style?
     
  24. JanBalk

    JanBalk Member+

    Jun 9, 2004
    Pretty much as excpeted, but the Danish victory was bigger than excpeted.
    WTF? Those are very suprsisng results. Did Denmark and Brazil celebrate the first victories so much that they played with hang-overs?
     
  25. usa3por2ft

    usa3por2ft Member

    Oct 15, 2002
    in exile
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was wondering if both sides overlooked their second matches in anticipation of their big showdown with each other.

    In any case, Brazil chose a new women's coach, Marcio Oliveira, without that being noted by anyone here. This is not the kind of result he would have wanted so early in his tenure, I'm sure.
     

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